A guide to critical thinking

[505]

Bman, even if this picture did in fact show the locations of the security cameras... which is questionable... but let's say it does. Just look at them for a sec. The camera on the far right corner of the building would not have seen the plane. It is pointing the wrong way. Same goes for the camera at the far left corner. The one in the middle MIGHT have picked it up... might have (as in small percentage chance).

Here is my reasoning. My guess is that those cameras would be pointing more downward than outward... being that they are security cameras for the pentagon and not for across the street or across town or whatever. With one frame per second and a even slightly pointing downward camera, there would be the exact same issue as there is with the security kiosk footage. One frame per second just simply does not capture fast moving objects.

For example... I have a camera that shoots at 60 frames per second. When I film my golf swing, even though the club is moving at just a hair over one hundred miles per hour over a distance of only about 12 feet, the club "jumps" considerably from one frame to the next. To get a nice smooth "animation" of my swing I have to shoot with my other camera that does 450 frames per second. Think about that for a sec... 60 frames per second, object moving at 110mph, and the "gap" between each frame is about a foot. Now take a camera that is taking 1/60th the amount of frames, and use it to try and capture an object moving 5 times the speed. Do the math.

A picture is usually worth a thousand words, but this one here says it all. Would love to hear a truther explain how a cruise missile or a global hawk can cause that particular damage.

 

[Demon of Light]

And it's interesting to note how the term 'sheeple' is used to insult a mass number of people on the bases of false assumptions.

I question the government all the time. A lot of people do.

I think there should be a distinction between questioning the government and questioning the establishment.

Today in my Law class we took a 'view' survey - almost everyone thought our laws were unfair, our government is out of control and our rights/means to intercede and hold the government accountable was increasing in common-use, popularity and ease.

Like here it really should be a question of who and what they are all thinking about. People often put a different spin on how our government is out of control and why our laws are unfair. Who is to blame is another matter of dispute. Just because someone seems to be critical of the government does not mean they are really getting at the establishment.

How many people recognize it is much bigger than our elected politicians? How many understand that a new political party is not a real solution? How many see the problem as existing primarily or only in government or primarily or only in business?

 

[BmanMcfly]

Bman, even if this picture did in fact show the locations of the security cameras... which is questionable... but let's say it does. Just look at them for a sec. The camera on the far right corner of the building would not have seen the plane. It is pointing the wrong way. Same goes for the camera at the far left corner. The one in the middle MIGHT have picked it up... might have (as in small percentage chance).

Here is my reasoning. My guess is that those cameras would be pointing more downward than outward... being that they are security cameras for the pentagon and not for across the street or across town or whatever. With one frame per second and a even slightly pointing downward camera, there would be the exact same issue as there is with the security kiosk footage. One frame per second just simply does not capture fast moving objects.

For example... I have a camera that shoots at 60 frames per second. When I film my golf swing, even though the club is moving at just a hair over one hundred miles per hour over a distance of only about 12 feet, the club "jumps" considerably from one frame to the next. To get a nice smooth "animation" of my swing I have to shoot with my other camera that does 450 frames per second. Think about that for a sec... 60 frames per second, object moving at 110mph, and the "gap" between each frame is about a foot. Now take a camera that is taking 1/60th the amount of frames, and use it to try and capture an object moving 5 times the speed. Do the math.

A picture is usually worth a thousand words, but this one here says it all. Would love to hear a truther explain how a cruise missile or a global hawk can cause that particular damage.

The idea is that if there's only one angle that was released if there were more films, even showing nothing, would still imply that something was being hidden... but It's reasonable to assume that it was the alleged hijacked plane.

I'm more curious about the details like, how we had all this 'evidence' against Osama bin Laden, yet, we could / would not produce this evidence to have made a case against bin laden that would have prevented the entire afghan war... instead, we're at war openly with afghan nationals, for a crime committed by egyptian and other non-afghan hijackers, trained and organized by a saudi arabian, and we've forgotten about OBL now, and instead our soldiers are killing and dying over there in the name of protecting the heroin... honestly, objectively look through the steps that followed 9-11 and really question if it makes sense, especially now that you can consider the 'after the fact' information that wasn't known at the time. Does our reaction to 9-11 really make sense?

Why would we sweep the heroes of 9-11 under the rug who, 10 years after the fact will still be begging for help with their medical bills if they aren't dead already from sucking in the asbestos that the people were told was 'safe' by the EPA. Next, in line with that consider Obama's declaration that the corexit 9500, 40 million gallons of the stuff in the gulf of mexico, had no health risks, and was safe... when the Exxon Valdese workers used the same chemical and had an average life expectency of 51 years, and they are almost all dead too...

Next, look at the lies that were used to take us into a war with Saddam Hussein... would you have believed those lies if you weren't still in a state of trauma after 9-11??

How many THOUSANDS of times have the talking heads on the news evoked 9-11 in order to make their statements??

How can you not look at this and NOT tell yourself that this isn't the type of reaction we'd typically see in the aftermath of a terrorist attack... I mean, in the OKC bombing, there was a trial with evidence and Timothy McVeigh was prosecuted and executed for his role. It was within 48 hours that not only had we determined the culprit, but where he trained the people to do the attacks... using a video which it was determined that he didn't even admit to the attacks, but CONDONED them... which is two very different statements. That was untill the fat bin laden makes a video taking credit...

Seriously, how many lies is enough??? I hear people talking ALL THE TIME about goverment lies, "You know they are lying cause the lips are moving," among other similar statements, yet there's still that same portion of people, who for some reason think there's some sort of 'limit' to political corruption...

I'm sorry for ranting at you, but honestly, how can you not see that at the very least 9-11 was ALLOWED to happen, at bare minimum, no matter any other interpretation given all the facts that are known today it comes down to they knew it was coming... that's if there wasn't a full 'shadow' orchestration connecting Bush and bin laden and other groups working together to make it happen... I don't get it... but then again, you always here neighbours saying "oh but he seemed so nice", even as the cops are pulling the tenth mutilated body out of the house.

 

[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

Part 1 ... coz it's long ...

Actually I could show you that this is a rather common tactic. Sacrificing innocents for the benefit of some greater goal has happened all the time.

Still doesn't mean that is what is actually happening now ... historical precedent or not !!!

Even if that is the truth it does not rule out a government conspiracy. Proving the event happened as described does not prove we have the whole story.

But the entire crux of conspiracy lies with it not happening as seen ... that is the point.

If conclusively proven, by science and engineering to be two gravity collapses from top-down due to impact damage and fire, one collapse due to intense un-fought fire plus some damage, one impact into denser building resulting in only partial damage and collapse and one nose-down impact into some deeply rural field ... then it entirely LESSENS the chance of conspiracy ... don't you see ???

For years Da Twoof has bleated about pods, flashes, controlled demolition, therm*tes (mythical and real), molten steel, holographic planes, missiles, yadda, yadda, yadda ... you name it ... and it has ALL supposedly been "da smoling fun" that is going to start a revolution and bring down da gubmint ... and yet it has all been shown to be junk !!!

So now that all those previous dearly held and "defended" claims have been utterly,utterly, utterly shown to be false ... seem you just seamlessly flow into "ah! but even if it happened as we saw ... it still is conspiracy"

Don't you see how ridiculously naive and simplistic thinking that is ???

Yes, gubmint have been guilty of some horrendous things, but that does not mean they are guilty now.

Like I said to B'man ... men commit rape, therefore all men are rapists !!!

It is nonsense of course ... but that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Should I just out-and-out accuse you of rape, for no better reason than some men do commit it ... how would/could you defend a negative.

Prove your not a rapist ... but that is what your expecting from the debunkers, that we eternally prove negatives.

Instead it SHOULD be YOU, whom provides the proof of what you claim ... you are the ones with the fantastical claims ... you show them then !!!

Having dislike and distrust for a group such as the gubmint is NOT enough ... don't you see that ... you NEED MORE than historical precedent and personal antipathy ... prejudice and speculation are NOT proofs !!!

You NEED more than that to be convincing, all these excercises in semantics and connotations is NOT enough ... YOU NEED HARD PHYSICAL EVIDENCE ... not hypothetical !!!

So, where is it then ???

There is order to the universe, we are just too feeble-minded to perceive that order. Of course, that does not mean every action is plotted out by some nefarious intelligence, only that there is no such thing as random. It doesn't even mean there is a reason for why things happen. However, that is all way off topic.

Only if you believe in some higher power or diety, which as an confirmed atheist I hold no truck with ... I hold science in higher regard, and that shows that even percieved order is rooted in randomness ... but as you say that is another discussion !!!

What you should do is plot out the mindset you describe here and assign it also to the most powerful people in the world. Humans most importantly want to control their environment because an environment beyond their control is threatening to them.

Yes, Demon, even your average gardener is imposing his will over nature ... but your forgetting one important thing here, just because someone has achieved a position above the hoi polloi and have power and wealth does not automatically make them out to do evil !!!

Yes, there are undoubtably evil people, alongside greedy, grasping, self-seeking individuals out there ... they exist in ALL walks and spheres of life.

Your council house scum robbing pensioners is morally no different to someone robbing a palace ... it is only in monetary scale they differ, but the morality and actions are the same.

Now I know you will jump in with that an old age pensioner is a greater victim ... well, that is true for they have much less to lose, but the bad morality remains the same ... a thief is a thief is a thief is a thief !!!

But there are ALSO enough good people to balance that ... and here is an amazing thing, EVEN amongst wealthy and powerful people, there are many that work selflessly to use their money and influence to make this world a better place for all ... and they do it quietly in the background, shunning fame and recognition.

Look at how many people do charitable and voluntary work ... do you seriously not think those people are just going to mindlessly, uncomplainingly let injustice and suffering reign ???

You have very little faith, it appears, in your fellow human being !!!

 

[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

Re: Part 2 ...

People in positions of power have greater ability to control their environment and fearing a lack of control use whatever means they have available to exercise control.

The simple facts are, within wealthier nations anyway, life-threatening childhood illness and diseases are decreasing and life-expectancy is increasing ... would that truly happen were these mythical elites wishing to kill off and control the majority of the worlds population for some unknown end !!!

Demon, look to the rest of the world and through history ... you NOW have more genuine freedoms, choices and abilities than at any time in the past.

Consider womens suffrage ... it is NOT really that long ago that woman has very little freedoms and right comprable to men, here in the UK it was ONLY in 1923 (just 87 years ago) that women won the right to equal votes with men ... that ISN'T that long ago.

Or that it was only with the advent of the Pill, around the early 60's, when women could now have freedom from eternal pregnancy and large families, and so free them up to study and work more equally with men ... again not that long ago.

Before that women had NO real control over the biological mechanism of their bodies and fertility ... yet these evil elite-types are letting all these personal advances happen !!!

Most women I know would NEVER wish to go back, me included ... and I could never have had a proper career WITHOUT these freedoms !!!

Wouldn't it just have been better (logistically) to prevent innovation in technology and advances in medicine from ever happening in the first place !!!

Let the biological realities of widescale baby/mother deaths, the PREVELENT childhood illnesses of measles, diptheria, whooping cough, polio, etc just remain ... killed ofF lots of the population very effectively.

All these things have mostly been eradicated from the modern world, yet it would make no sense, for a group intent in eradication, to allow the medicines and advances in hygiene to become commonplace.

With smallpox now completely eradicated since 1979, due to an huge and intense vaccination programme ... it is believed globally eradicated, but is still monitored ...

WHO | Smallpox

But people seem to view the world ONLY within their own time, encompassing even history to modern interpretation ... that is simplistic and wrong.

You have total freedom to travel unemcumbered to anywhere in the world, except financially, but do you really expect global travel to be free !!!

You can choose to work in any country in the world basically ... you can move anywhere in the world.

Here in the UK we are part of the European Union, which has no more control over my movements or will than before under just the UK one ... I have freedom to access, without restriction, ANYWHERE within the Union, I can go to France as often as I like and bring back as much smelly cheese and wine as I want ... or Germany for stinky sausage and beer !!!

I have RIGHTS to proper medical care if I have an accident there and to have that government fund it ... if I have an accident in France which wasn't my fault I am ENTITLED to compensation from France.

I live in a country where I have free access to clean and pure public water (very, very soft up here, used for whisky afterall) and my children have the right to free, good quality nursery, primary, secondary education as well as subsidised further education.

We have 100% free healthcare, which although has its problems due to drastic mismanagement and overburdened services, is STILL the best in the world ... I never need worry about my family and relatives having to suffer debt due to long-term medical needs or expensive medication.

Now it is far from "perfect" ... BUT it is STILL way, way, way better than most people on this planet has

I count myself as incredibly lucky !!!

And I think that is what you should be doing ... your wasting your life worrying about fantasy instead of counting your blessings ... exactly like an aunt of mine, whom although well-off and with an incredibly healthy lifestyle with no children (by choice) ... whom regularly travelled the world, cycled through Europe, eating only organic (Cordon Bleu cook)and drinking home-made quality wines (My uncle taught viniculture) ... WORRIED endlessly/needlessly about cancer ...

She died, quite young of cancer ... brought about by stress ...

So instead of enjoying her abundant good health and full life she "fretted" herself into illness and an early death ...

You truly have nothing to fear but fear itself ... besides you give these mythical elite-types waaaay too much credit, history has shown them always to fail, as they are not immortal nor that good !!!

It's now 2010 ...

Bush is gone.

Cheney is gone.

Martial law was not declared.

The elections weren't suspended.

None of the things conspiracists were whining vexacious about happened ... just like that loud-mouth Alex Jones bawling about Y2K ... TEN YEARS AGO ... when storm-troppers were "apparently" a hairsbreath from kicking in your door and nuclear war was "HAPPENING NOW" ... guess what happened ... NOTHING !!!

It's all just hype and hyperbole that some buy into because they just don't like, trust or regard those in power or influence.

These ebil gubmint/elites ONLY have dominion over you if you let them, aside from normal societal controls (is anarchy truly a good thing ... we DO need some controls) ... you have total freedom beyond that, you CHOOSE to read the trashy tabloids or you CHOOSE to read more highbrow broadsheets ... you CHOOSE to watch Eastenders or you CHOOSE to watch nature documentories.

Dumbing-down in entirely optional ... not a forced "control" ...

Like my favourite stupid person, the Crazy Rainbow Lady ... that is genuine self-imposed ignorance ... there is no good reason for anybody nowadays to be this stupid ... except will ...



"This cannot be natural" ... oh! please, my sides, they hurt ... :lamo

Or the people that fall for the DHMO guff ...



Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division - dihydrogen monoxide info

Coalition to Ban DHMO Dihydrogen Monoxide Homepage

Or the 1012 Nibiru crud ...

Nibiru 2012

Surviving Nibiru

These things are patently, patently false ... yet people STILL fall for them, probably because it is more psychologically exciting than the boring reality or it puts the bad guys in a bad light !!!

As well as not having the necessary knowledge to be able to tell the difference between real science and the stuff that just sounds "sciency" !!!

But there is more than ample articulate information which shows them to be patently false ... so why do people still believe them and be so willing to defend them ???

Beats me ... unless it is faith, they just WANT to believe !!!

 

[I_Gaze_At_The_Blue]

Re: Part 3 ... the end you'll be glad to know !!!

Democracy inherently takes the system out of their control and so when they see something they consider a thought they find themselves unable to control the situation because they cannot control the masses.

Out of which of the many forms of government would you then prefer ... Democracy, despite its faults and flaws, it is still miles better than many of the alternatives.

Would you rather live in someplace like Darfur where daily you would live with very real terror and fear, with never enough food and disease rampant, or like North Korea where any form of dissent is likely a death sentence !!!

Emergencies : Save the Children UK

North Korea Freedom Coalition: Index

Yet, here you are having complete freedom to whine and moan and bitch about whatever and whomever with complete impunity ... try burning an effigy of Mohammed in a Muslim area, see how long you last ???

You SHOULD count yourself as truly lucky ... for you can cast any sort of accusation, EVEN mass murder at your gubmint/elites, using technology that enables you to have total global access, as often as you like, as vocal as you like ... and NOTHING happens to you ... time to grow up methinks !!!

The concept of an over-arching world domination conspiracy (particularly one which is several THOUSAND years old yet STILL has not succeeded in its goals) is, by all rational indicators ... totally foolish !!!

If I were going to instigate a global enslavement/eradication programme I sure as Hades would not "wait" until people had the ability to have global communication readily available ... nor under the relentless glare of 24 hour television coverage !!

There is a BBC documentary called the Century of the Self that deals in part with this sort of mass mind control. Basically, I do not see it as them having control, but rather seeking control.

So what ... they'll never achieve it ... leave them to their unattainable dreams of dominion !!!

 

[Demon of Light]

Re: Part 3 ... the end you'll be glad to know !!!

Oh for heaven's sake three paragraphs and you respond with three hundred. *sigh*

Still doesn't mean that is what is actually happening now ... historical precedent or not !!!

You're right, but this has happened consistently throughout history and there are some mentions of similar things being talked about. Richard Clarke made mention of Bush Administration officials discussing provoking an incident in Iraq involving the no-fly zones as a justification for war. You will find this process of provocation has long-established history. Really the only issue here is whether these people are willing to sacrifice thousands of American civilians for their agenda. We know they are willing to sacrifice soldiers to incite wars and that they are more than happy sacrificing foreign civilians.

But the entire crux of conspiracy lies with it not happening as seen ... that is the point.

Actually no, there is plenty of reason to suspect a conspiracy other than the notion that the towers were brought down by explosives. You seem to have a problem here assuming that the entire argument for a conspiracy rests on the Loose Change documentary. On some level I wonder if that is not in fact the entire point of those documentaries being made or tolerated. Associate a conspiracy theory with an easily debunked claim and you automatically cast doubt on all claims. You seem to think that debunking claims by some conspiracy theorists disproves a conspiracy, when this is not even remotely the case. Many arguments for a conspiracy have been made that do not involve questioning the official story of the actual attack.

seem you just seamlessly flow into "ah! but even if it happened as we saw ... it still is conspiracy"

Honestly, I always question accounts that challenge the occurrence of events. I never took claims from the Loose Change videos with much seriousness, but still found a number of indications that such a conspiracy did exist.

It is nonsense of course ... but that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Actually no, I am only saying that you cannot dismiss it out of hand because it is not beyond our government.

Only if you believe in some higher power or diety, which as an confirmed atheist I hold no truck with ... I hold science in higher regard, and that shows that even percieved order is rooted in randomness ... but as you say that is another discussion !!!

It has nothing to do with a higher power. Like I said, that there is order to the universe does not mean there is purpose or reason to it. A higher power or deity would be more suggestive of a purpose or reason. Random is really something we assign to the universe because we see no purpose or reason for something. Order and purpose are not essential functions of each other.

But there are ALSO enough good people to balance that ... and here is an amazing thing, EVEN amongst wealthy and powerful people, there are many that work selflessly to use their money and influence to make this world a better place for all ... and they do it quietly in the background, shunning fame and recognition.

Look at how many people do charitable and voluntary work ... do you seriously not think those people are just going to mindlessly, uncomplainingly let injustice and suffering reign ???

Hamas began as a charitable organization. People who do charitable works also fund revolutions. That you might think there is a moral contradiction there doesn't mean those people see any.

The simple facts are, within wealthier nations anyway, life-threatening childhood illness and diseases are decreasing and life-expectancy is increasing ... would that truly happen were these mythical elites wishing to kill off and control the majority of the worlds population for some unknown end !!!

I do not know if there is such a plan, but do not assume that improved living conditions rule out any plan to trim the population. Those who are left would certainly want to preserve these life-extending and life-improving technologies.

And I think that is what you should be doing ... your wasting your life worrying about fantasy instead of counting your blessings ... exactly like an aunt of mine, whom although well-off and with an incredibly healthy lifestyle with no children (by choice) ... whom regularly travelled the world, cycled through Europe, eating only organic (Cordon Bleu cook)and drinking home-made quality wines (My uncle taught viniculture) ... WORRIED endlessly/needlessly about cancer ...

This is exactly the mindset elites would wish to cultivate. Have you read Brave New World? Getting people to enjoy their lives and never entertain the notion that there are powerful people who might have much more horrendous motives than they let on is exactly what they would desire.

You truly have nothing to fear but fear itself ... besides you give these mythical elite-types waaaay too much credit, history has shown them always to fail, as they are not immortal nor that good !!!

That depends on how you perceive failure. Imperialists fail as empires fail, but globalists have slowly advanced their agenda over the centuries.

It's now 2010 ...

Bush is gone.

Cheney is gone.

Martial law was not declared.

The elections weren't suspended.

You mistake elected politicians for the head of such a conspiracy, when in fact they most likely are nothing of the sort. In fact on 9-11 there is reason to believe an assassination was planned against Bush.

Dumbing-down in entirely optional ... not a forced "control" ...

I agree it is not "forced" on people, but denying or limiting a person's access to materials that might lead to viewpoints the establishment feels are threatening can achieve the same desired goal.

Out of which of the many forms of government would you then prefer ... Democracy, despite its faults and flaws, it is still miles better than many of the alternatives.

Actually, I was clearly saying democracy is better, but even this does not prevent manipulation.

If I were going to instigate a global enslavement/eradication programme I sure as Hades would not "wait" until people had the ability to have global communication readily available ... nor under the relentless glare of 24 hour television coverage !!

Actually it is only because of such technology that such a program is even possible. Considering many information sources are dominated by elites this makes it easier. In earlier periods such sources were not centralized to the extent they are today.

So what ... they'll never achieve it ... leave them to their unattainable dreams of dominion !!!

Except even if they can not achieve the full extent of their desires they can definitely achieve it in part and that alone is threatening.

 

[505]

The idea is that if there's only one angle that was released if there were more films, even showing nothing, would still imply that something was being hidden... but It's reasonable to assume that it was the alleged hijacked plane.

All of the angles were released. The conspiracy sites (still to this day) LIE and say that there was only one angle released. The rest of your post is all opinion and has nothing to do with proving any conspiracy.

 

[creativedreams]

A picture is usually worth a thousand words, but this one here says it all. Would love to hear a truther explain how a cruise missile or a global hawk can cause that particular damage.

How did even pieces of wood not even get a char from all that jet fuel that would have been in the plane we're told hit the building?

 

[505]

How did even pieces of wood not even get a char from all that jet fuel that would have been in the plane we're told hit the building?

Good god man. Look at the right side of the picture. They built up a ceiling support right there (you know, because of all the damage) and that piece of wood is obviously a scrap from that project. Do I have to explain everything for you? Are you 5?

 

[creativedreams]

Good god man. Look at the right side of the picture. They built up a ceiling support right there (you know, because of all the damage) and that piece of wood is obviously a scrap from that project. Do I have to explain everything for you? Are you 5?

Ok....I hadn't noticed the supports that were built and how that is a scrap piece of wood from that project...

 

[505]

Ok....I hadn't noticed the supports that were built and how that is a scrap piece of wood from that project...

So let me get this straight. You look at that particular picture, discount the way all of the pillars look, completely miss the temp supports, but are apt enough to catch a couple foot long section of wood? You then can't even fathom on your own that perhaps the piece of wood was not present at the time of impact, and conclude that the picture is somehow some sort of "proof" that a jetliner did not crash there?

Good truth seeking there.

 

[BmanMcfly]

The simple facts are, within wealthier nations anyway, life-threatening childhood illness and diseases are decreasing and life-expectancy is increasing ... would that truly happen were these mythical elites wishing to kill off and control the majority of the worlds population for some unknown end !!!

Actually, the main reason 'life-expectancy' was so low was because there were SO MANY more infant deaths, women dying in child birth, etc... SO, if you count the people that made it to 5 years old, the life expectancy was that most people lived to their 80's...

Look at the latest studies of GMO foods :
ShowArticle - Institute for Responsible Technology
To sum up the findings;
first generation : slight decrease in libido, but the animals were fine.
second generation : There was an increase in infant mortality, the babies were smaller, had a lower sex drive.
Third generation : the third generation had lost almost all interest in sex and were 98% sterilized.... that's after the 5X increase in infant deaths... and to top it off they had deformations, like hair growing in their mouths.

In the North America, about 80 or so percent of all food produced is GMO. In europe, there has been outright aggression, I've heard of cases where French farmers would burn down entire GMO crops in anger.

That's just one part... I don't want to fully detract, but I could provide many facets that are contributing to a depopulation agenda, maybe I'll start another thread or add to one.

Demon, look to the rest of the world and through history ... you NOW have more genuine freedoms, choices and abilities than at any time in the past.

I agree... but that is quickly and quietly changing. Example, 'Minority Report' moves from reel into real life - ET Cetera - News By Industry - News - The Economic Times

That's discussing 'pre-crime' software that will be plugged into the entire CCTV grid setup there... remember it's all "to fight terrorists"...

Consider womens suffrage ... it is NOT really that long ago that woman has very little freedoms and right comprable to men, here in the UK it was ONLY in 1923 (just 87 years ago) that women won the right to equal votes with men ... that ISN'T that long ago.

Yes, we may have more of a power to vote, but now the power of your vote is dwindling in that the power less and less follows the will and or best interests of the people they are representing.

Or that it was only with the advent of the Pill, around the early 60's, when women could now have freedom from eternal pregnancy and large families, and so free them up to study and work more equally with men ... again not that long ago.

Though, most of the original feminists should be disgusted at what's become of their movement... It's become a way to demonize everything masculine about men, and to hyper-sexualize women... While I do agree with the original intent; equal rights, equal pay for an equal job, to have the glass ceiling removed, to remove the stigma of the stay at home mom (which is also a bit of new concept, only 150 years or so ago it wasn't uncommon for the women to do work alongside the men, at least for the working class people) and allow women to have a career of their own, etc...

Before that women had NO real control over the biological mechanism of their bodies and fertility ... yet these evil elite-types are letting all these personal advances happen !!!

Look at the replacement rate because of that on north americans and europeans, australians too.

I live in a country where I have free access to clean and pure public water (very, very soft up here, used for whisky afterall)

Though I would still take a look at your local water quality report and determine if you want that water filtered. Free education would have been nice.

Now it is far from "perfect" ... BUT it is STILL way, way, way better than most people on this planet has

I count myself as incredibly lucky !!!

As do I. Don't get me wrong, the western world has had it VERY GOOD overall for the past half century... at the expense of much of the rest of the world.

And I think that is what you should be doing ... your wasting your life worrying about fantasy instead of counting your blessings ...

Oh, but knowing that it is coming to an end and having the opportunity to prepare, and also creates an existential enjoyment... call it gallows humor, knowing that you're going to die anyway, there's a number of ways you can handle the situation : you can freak out, you can deny what's happening, or you can make the most of the remaining time... which I don't know WHEN things are going to unravel, just that inevitably these things will happen, and honestly represents the greatest test humanity will ever face in our entire history...

You truly have nothing to fear but fear itself ... besides you give these mythical elite-types waaaay too much credit, history has shown them always to fail, as they are not immortal nor that good !!!

Yes, I agree, some people do get carried away and OCD about it... the real issues aren't imminent, that's why there's so much talk of those who have 'woken up'... which, literally is akin to how a hypnotist snaps his fingers and you snap out of the hypnosis... I wish they were 'mythical'... but they write books, they are PROUD of what they are creating... they are above the law, they don't care... they think that the people are so stupid that they can tell you that they are going to kill off the majority of the population and HOW they are going to do it.,... but they think that even telling you that you're too stupid to try and stop them.

It's now 2010 ...

Bush is gone.

Cheney is gone.

Martial law was not declared.

The elections weren't suspended.

Martial law hasn't been declared, though at least in the US it's being at least partially enacted. On a 1 - 10 scale where 10 is tanks on the streets and checkpoints every few km, we're about a level 3-4 of martial law

Bush and Cheney are both gone, but the people pulling their strings and Obama's have not changed.

None of the things conspiracists were whining vexacious about happened ... just like that loud-mouth Alex Jones bawling about Y2K ... TEN YEARS AGO ... when storm-troppers were "apparently" a hairsbreath from kicking in your door and nuclear war was "HAPPENING NOW" ... guess what happened ... NOTHING !!!

Because there's always potential for trigger events to occur that would lead to the rest of the dire threats.

These ebil gubmint/elites ONLY have dominion over you if you let them, aside from normal societal controls (is anarchy truly a good thing ... we DO need some controls) ... you have total freedom beyond that, you CHOOSE to read the trashy tabloids or you CHOOSE to read more highbrow broadsheets ... you CHOOSE to watch Eastenders or you CHOOSE to watch nature documentories.

Let's give the analogy of 'cruise ship earth'... on which you're a passenger. On this ship there are people running the engine rooms, the casinos, the janitorial services, the bars, the restaurants, etc... they all know everything they need to know to make sure their job is done well. The bridge of the ship deals with all the managers of the various sections all to see that the vessel is running smoothly, and the captains sees to it that all these operations run perfectly, he also knows where to steer the ship. There's a variety of personalities on this ship, some good some bad... but then, all the captains get there orders from the company on land... and it's the company on land organizing the entire fleets operations... and they are as evil and corrupt as you could possibly imagine.

"This cannot be natural" ... oh! please, my sides, they hurt ... :lamo

I honestly doubt that the women is THAT stupid, but, I've read somewhere that north americans IQ's have dropped an average 15%... not test scores or laziness, actual IQ's.

DHMO would mean 2 hydrogens that have an oxide... 2 h's and an O... H2O. That was a joke on people to say 'there's water in your water, should we ban it'? TO see if people would actually sign on to banning water... That's not representative of 'conspiracy nuts' or otherwise, just stupid people.

Beats me ... unless it is faith, they just WANT to believe !!!

It's not that simple.

Out of which of the many forms of government would you then prefer ... Democracy, despite its faults and flaws, it is still miles better than many of the alternatives.

No, democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. We live in a republics in North America, where one group can't 'vote' to steal from the smaller group, because there's a rule of law that dictates what can or cannot be done... lawyers are working on fixing those inconveniences to government though.

The concept of an over-arching world domination conspiracy (particularly one which is several THOUSAND years old yet STILL has not succeeded in its goals) is, by all rational indicators ... totally foolish !!!

Honestly, 2 books and you'll understand fully where society is headed. The first 70% is like 'Brave New world' (if you read 'revisited' you'll see the authors claims), and then the other 30% will look like 1984... Then after you read both of those find the video of Huxley's Cambridge university speech, which is an hour long and really pay attention...

Then, consider that these guys wrote their books in the 30's and 40's... or more then half a century ago. They imagined a highly controlled and highly surveilled society, one with a hard handed policing and the other controlled through mass drugging and genetic manipulation. 9-11 served as the catalyst to the events that will lead society to the eventual outcome of society BEGGING for this level of control over their lives... it's all done through a process... like the process that brought full naked body scanners to many western world airports, in spite of the high levels of radiation.

If I were going to instigate a global enslavement/eradication programme I sure as Hades would not "wait" until people had the ability to have global communication readily available ... nor under the relentless glare of 24 hour television coverage !!

Well, no, it's not that simple... we had to actually BUILD this stuff for them... think of the ant colony... the queen ant can't really do any of the work, she's not designed for it... so she is as much a slave to the colony as the colony is a slave to her... the 'lesser' humans outnumber the 'master' humans 1000's to 1... they could not build the infrastructure and technology and instigate the means of their own enslavement without first having the 'lesser' humans do this for them... Television is a mild sedative and mind manipulator... it's called 'programming' for a reason

So what ... they'll never achieve it ... leave them to their unattainable dreams of dominion !!!

It's my goal to prevent them from attaining their dreams... I can't do it alone, but if we as a society look at where we're headed and collectively say 'no'... and start working to bring back a level of sanity to our world.... they will simply collapse under the weight of their own corruption... IMO...