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A GaY Agenda ?

Navy Pride

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vergiss said:
I don't care about what other people did or didn't do. I want to know if you could simply convert to the "gay lifestyle"?



I already asked him this. He conveniently ignored it.


A. Its being done every day.........The Colonel I mentioned proves it.......

B. What does that have to do with anal sex?
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Navy Pride said:
A. Its being done every day.........The Colonel I mentioned proves it.......

What post did you mention this at? Did have a link? I'd like to read it.

B. What does that have to do with anal sex?

Because what you said about anal sex could be applied to oral sex:

I am implying that the anus is a very dirty place for someone to put his penis(I suppose that depends on your partner, ehh sport?) and you are not able to procreate by doing that(No babies involved in oral sex)........

I am implying that the vagina in the act of sexual intercourse is the normal way to procreate............. (same)


Oral sex does not create a child(not that people engage in oral sex looking to have a baby). The same is said of anal sex. Sex with a condon does not create a child. The same is said of anal sex.

Do you see?
 

Navy Pride

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Gandhi>Bush said:
What post did you mention this at? Did have a link? I'd like to read it.



Because what you said about anal sex could be applied to oral sex:

I am implying that the anus is a very dirty place for someone to put his penis(I suppose that depends on your partner, ehh sport?) and you are not able to procreate by doing that(No babies involved in oral sex)........

I am implying that the vagina in the act of sexual intercourse is the normal way to procreate............. (same)


Oral sex does not create a child(not that people engage in oral sex looking to have a baby). The same is said of anal sex. Sex with a condon does not create a child. The same is said of anal sex.

Do you see?

1. It matters not if you believe it but I live here in the Pacific NW and there are a couple of other posters from here that can back me up.........I am sure if you google search on the subject you will find other cases too.......

2. I believe most people would consider oral sex foreplay or a prelude to Sexual Intercourse...........With Gays anal intercourse is the main event..........
 

nkgupta80

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amyways for some heterosexuals, anal is a part in their sexual intercourse as well... whats ur point.
 

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Navy Pride said:
1. It matters not if you believe it but I live here in the Pacific NW and there are a couple of other posters from here that can back me up.........I am sure if you google search on the subject you will find other cases too.......

An elipses has 3 periods. I don't believe that any of these cases produce a full fledged heterosexual. Potentially a closet homosexual, maybe? Do you think that given some one-on-one time with a Colonel you could become a complete homosexual?

I don't think that would happen with me.

2. I believe most people would consider oral sex foreplay or a prelude to Sexual Intercourse........With Gays anal intercourse is the main event..........

And? Just because it's the "main event" doesn't make it any different. At certain stages in a relationship oral sex might be the "main event." One way or another it's the same concept: Using various parts of one's body to make that special someone go to Pleasure Town. It's all the same concept in the end(no pun intended).
 

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Navy Pride said:
1. It matters not if you believe it but I live here in the Pacific NW and there are a couple of other posters from here that can back me up.........I am sure if you google search on the subject you will find other cases too.......

2. I believe most people would consider oral sex foreplay or a prelude to Sexual Intercourse...........With Gays anal intercourse is the main event..........

Well I think he just proved he isnt a self loathing closet case because this just proves he knows nothing about gay sex. But I am not going to get graphic and explain it to him here.


As for converting homosexuals to heterosexuals, this is just absurd. Most of these programs are religiously based and simply produce a very unhappy and repressed individual who is more prone to seedier, covert activities to satisfy natural instincts. You basically end up with what could have been a well adjusted person who resorts to backroom anonymous sex that gives gays a bad rap anyway.

You end up creating everything that is considered by both gays and straights to be bad and unwholesome about homosexuality.
 
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Navy Pride

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nkgupta80 said:
amyways for some heterosexuals, anal is a part in their sexual intercourse as well... whats ur point.

And its still abnormal whether its straight or gay..........Read the frigging thread will you........Its been already pointed out.......
 

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I was reading all the posts in the past few days and it got me thinking, what is the future of the gay rights movement and as this thread is titled the "gay agenda". Just looking at other civil rights movements I think that the opposition to the gay rights movement (aka the Christian conservatives) will slowly start to decrease and even though the current generations might still hold their current prejudices I think a more tolerant perception will trickle through following generations. Also history has shown that religious opposition to certain topics usually dies down when society comes to accept these things for example the ideas of divorce or interracial marriage. But also I think in this current divided climate of Republican vs. Democrat, Religious vs. Secular, and Conservative vs. Liberal any sort of social reform (for either side) will be virtually impossible because for every action one side takes the other side is ready to counteract it.

So my question for everyone is what do you think about the future of the "gay agenda"?
 

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The fact is Gays want to be considered a minority like Hispanics and African Americans............No one knows for sure if they are born that way or not but there are documented cases of people changing both ways........

It is also a fact that African Americans and Hispanics can not change.......Gays can never accept the fact that they can change because if they did that would throw out all their so called minority status so they will always deny it.....
 

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Navy Pride said:
The fact is Gays want to be considered a minority like Hispanics and African Americans............No one knows for sure if they are born that way or not but there are documented cases of people changing both ways........

It is also a fact that African Americans and Hispanics can not change.......Gays can never accept the fact that they can change because if they did that would throw out all their so called minority status so they will always deny it.....


Are you sure you arent from one of the big square states in the middle? No we dont want minority status, we want inclusion and equality. Not separate but equal (we saw that didnt work in the South during segregation) but true equality. We want our choice of partners to be recognized by civil union. I dont want to have to pay a lawyer to draw up documents to insure my partner gains all of my real property when I die...because for heterosexual couples, it is an assumption of the law that this will happen upon the death of one spouse. We want the right to raise children without fear that they can be taken from us because some Fundy thinks we cant be good parents. We want to be assured that our jobs cannot be taken from us because a super conservative board decides it doesnt want a gay or lesbian working in its corporation. Thats the so called Gay Agenda.

Unfortunately, I cant blame you for your perceptions because there is a bad element to our community. You see Pride Marches where a bunch of half nude porn stars on a pink float is the main attraction. Just try to understand that we arent all limp wristed screaming tinkerbells bent on creating a pink mafia. We arent all trying to dick little boys through bathroom walls and we arent all skulking predators in the dark alleys outside of gay bars. Hell, I am even scared of those people...but unfortunately thats all you ever get to hear about because of a sensationalist media that is more concerned about ratings than objectively showing what gay life is really like as a norm.
 

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I think that whole "they can change" argument really isn't plausible because of the fact that many of the groups who believe and support the idea that homosexuality is more or less a mental delusion that can be reversible really have no scientific claim except flimsy claims like "they haven't found the gay gene yet". These groups could actually conduct scientific research and study I don't know genetics and dare I say it, evolution and show through their research that homosexuality has no real biological basis and is purely a psychological defect. But until then shocking a man's penis with electrodes until he stops having erections towards men will not be a logical argument to discredit the irreversibility of homosexuality.

It was said in a recent post that due to the fact that African Americans can't change their race this gives them permanent minority status. But when you actually look back on the history of the African American's struggle to gain equal rights you will see many similarities to the debate over the origins of homosexuality. For many years (and still even today) people believed that the blacks were inferior which contributed to the whole "nature vs. nurture" dispute we think of today when debating the origins of homosexuality. But as the 20th century progressed advancements in genetics helped to show that the blacks were not inferior. So if we try to learn from our history (which we rarely ever do) we can clearly see that trying to make a claim about the traits a group of people based on illogical evidence is not really anwsering the question. Like I've said in previous posts science is the only way we can prove or disprove homosexuality, the origins will not be found through the bible, circumstantial evidence, or these pseudo-conversion therapies.

Another source that accepts that homosexuality is permanent (but immoral), is the Catholic Church. I recently found out when I was reading the Vatican's website that they realize homosexuality is permanent and so homosexuals must remain celibate and bisexuals must supress their urges for men and only be with women.

So saying homosexuals can change is a very limited view because I think when you deal with such a complex topic as this you need to really put yourself in their shoes. If one justs imagines the social stigma, the ostracism, the "so-called religious damnation", and the rest of the baggage that comes from being gay people can be scared into doing many things. You can claim that gays can change but when you are being told that your life will be bleak and tragic if you be yourself and you can look foward to an afterlife of torture and unhapiness you'd be suprised how fear can manifest itself.

(Hopefully someone will respond to this post...:( )
 

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Youve Got To Be Kidding! said:
Gays or the Catholic Church?

Now that was hirlarious...and thats from a gay catholic.
 

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js416256 said:
I think that whole "they can change" argument really isn't plausible because of the fact that many of the groups who believe and support the idea that homosexuality is more or less a mental delusion that can be reversible really have no scientific claim except flimsy claims like "they haven't found the gay gene yet". These groups could actually conduct scientific research and study I don't know genetics and dare I say it, evolution and show through their research that homosexuality has no real biological basis and is purely a psychological defect. But until then shocking a man's penis with electrodes until he stops having erections towards men will not be a logical argument to discredit the irreversibility of homosexuality.

It was said in a recent post that due to the fact that African Americans can't change their race this gives them permanent minority status. But when you actually look back on the history of the African American's struggle to gain equal rights you will see many similarities to the debate over the origins of homosexuality. For many years (and still even today) people believed that the blacks were inferior which contributed to the whole "nature vs. nurture" dispute we think of today when debating the origins of homosexuality. But as the 20th century progressed advancements in genetics helped to show that the blacks were not inferior. So if we try to learn from our history (which we rarely ever do) we can clearly see that trying to make a claim about the traits a group of people based on illogical evidence is not really anwsering the question. Like I've said in previous posts science is the only way we can prove or disprove homosexuality, the origins will not be found through the bible, circumstantial evidence, or these pseudo-conversion therapies.

Another source that accepts that homosexuality is permanent (but immoral), is the Catholic Church. I recently found out when I was reading the Vatican's website that they realize homosexuality is permanent and so homosexuals must remain celibate and bisexuals must supress their urges for men and only be with women.

So saying homosexuals can change is a very limited view because I think when you deal with such a complex topic as this you need to really put yourself in their shoes. If one justs imagines the social stigma, the ostracism, the "so-called religious damnation", and the rest of the baggage that comes from being gay people can be scared into doing many things. You can claim that gays can change but when you are being told that your life will be bleak and tragic if you be yourself and you can look foward to an afterlife of torture and unhapiness you'd be suprised how fear can manifest itself.

(Hopefully someone will respond to this post...:( )

That was probably the most objective argument I have read so far. If I may, I would like to add one more thing...it doesnt matter whether homosexuality is a product of genetics or the environment. It is simply a manifestation in some people and not in others. It just is. All these arguments against it are simply based on religious perception (or misconception) and not reason. Further, do the fundies ever stop to think that there are a lot of well adjusted gay men and women out there who dont want to change?
 

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jallman said:
That was probably the most objective argument I have read so far. If I may, I would like to add one more thing...it doesnt matter whether homosexuality is a product of genetics or the environment. It is simply a manifestation in some people and not in others. It just is. All these arguments against it are simply based on religious perception (or misconception) and not reason. Further, do the fundies ever stop to think that there are a lot of well adjusted gay men and women out there who dont want to change?

Well if homosexuality was proven to be completely a product of the enviorment then what would that mean- homosexuality is purely a psychological defect and would most likely be treated like you would treat anxiety or depression. In addition to this it wouldn't make sense to give homosexuals equal protections under the law if homosexuality wasn't a genetic trait. But if homosexuality had a proven biochemical derivation then the phrase "i'm born gay" would be completely true. So to just refer to homosexuality as an inclination that manifests in some people but not others really doesn't fufill the question about the origins of homosexuality and their recognition as a protected minority group.
 

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js416256 said:
Well if homosexuality was proven to be completely a product of the enviorment then what would that mean- homosexuality is purely a psychological defect and would most likely be treated like you would treat anxiety or depression. In addition to this it wouldn't make sense to give homosexuals equal protections under the law if homosexuality wasn't a genetic trait. But if homosexuality had a proven biochemical derivation then the phrase "i'm born gay" would be completely true. So to just refer to homosexuality as an inclination that manifests in some people but not others really doesn't fufill the question about the origins of homosexuality and their recognition as a protected minority group.

While I appreciate your case, I find it very difficult to see myself as having a psychological defect nor do I even want to explore that idea (thats a personal bias and has nothing to do with the debate at hand). With anxiety and depression, there are some seriously damaging effects to a person's life. Being gay doesnt inherently come along with having disturbances or impediments to a happy and productive life. Just like with other minorities, we as homosexuals dont deserve equal protection under the law because of our differences, we deserve those rights afforded all citizens because of our similarities: we are productive tax-paying citizens. The morality of our choice or genetic disposition to choose a partner of the same sex should no be a concern of the government. Denying us rights and privileges based on religious arguments and base prejudices is unconstitutional.
 

js416256

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While I doubt that homosexuality is a psychological disorder, scientific evidence is needed to ever foster social change. I agree that everyone should have equal protections under the law but what you are calling for is drastic social change and many people believe in the abberance of homosexuality and would object to any type social change without justified scientific evidence. Even in Theoretical America where religion has no place in politics some form of scientific evidence would be needed for homosexuality to be fully accepted. But despite this the extreme amounts of variation in homosexuals all around the world really disproves the theory that homosexuality is a mental disorder. Usually when a trait is recurring through each generation all around the world and even in different species genetics is usually the most probable explanation.
 

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js416256 said:
While I doubt that homosexuality is a psychological disorder, scientific evidence is needed to ever foster social change. I agree that everyone should have equal protections under the law but what you are calling for is drastic social change and many people believe in the abberance of homosexuality and would object to any type social change without justified scientific evidence. Even in Theoretical America where religion has no place in politics some form of scientific evidence would be needed for homosexuality to be fully accepted. But despite this the extreme amounts of variation in homosexuals all around the world really disproves the theory that homosexuality is a mental disorder. Usually when a trait is recurring through each generation all around the world and even in different species genetics is usually the most probable explanation.

I totally agree with the idea that we need quality scientific evidence to support the genetic basis of homosexuality in order for it to be accepted for what it is: simply a fact of life. Everything we have now is either emotion and prejudice based argument advocating the immoral nature of it or it is circumstantial evidence based on the observations you mentioned. I pose a further question: do you think that evidence will quell the argument or will it just rile up the extreme right to take a stronger offensive? We all know how they like to pick and choose fact to justify their prejudices.
 

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Navy Pride said:
A. Its being done every day.........The Colonel I mentioned proves it.......

B. What does that have to do with anal sex?

A. Sigh. I will repeat myself yet again and hopefully this time it'll be simple enough for you to understand: what other people have done is not relevant. Could you, Navy Pride specifically, convert to homosexuality?

B: As you say, the penis is designed for the vagina - therefore, not for the anus or mouth. Plus, it's often an "out" hole, as you put it. How do you feel having your dick in the same hole that vomit comes out of?
 
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cnredd

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vergiss said:
B: As you say, the penis is designed for the vagina - therefore, not for the anus or mouth. Plus, it's often an "out" hole, as you put it. How do you feel having your dick in the same hole that vomit comes out of?

ummmm....Is this "before" or "after"?:doh
 

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cnredd said:
ummmm....Is this "before" or "after"?:doh

Well... what with the gag reflex and all...
 

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vergiss said:
Well... what with the gag reflex and all...

Believe me....Women don't have to worry about THAT with me...:doh :3oops:
 

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Navy Pride said:
...I am implying that the vagina in the act of sexual intercourse is the normal way to procreate.............

I don't know how to make it any clearer to you without getting to graphic........
Are you saying that the only reason to have sex is to make a baby? Please be very specific in your response, I do not want to misunderstand your position(s).
 

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jallman said:
Are you sure you arent from one of the big square states in the middle? No we dont want minority status, we want inclusion and equality. Not separate but equal (we saw that didnt work in the South during segregation) but true equality. We want our choice of partners to be recognized by civil union. I dont want to have to pay a lawyer to draw up documents to insure my partner gains all of my real property when I die...because for heterosexual couples, it is an assumption of the law that this will happen upon the death of one spouse. We want the right to raise children without fear that they can be taken from us because some Fundy thinks we cant be good parents. We want to be assured that our jobs cannot be taken from us because a super conservative board decides it doesnt want a gay or lesbian working in its corporation. Thats the so called Gay Agenda.

Unfortunately, I cant blame you for your perceptions because there is a bad element to our community. You see Pride Marches where a bunch of half nude porn stars on a pink float is the main attraction. Just try to understand that we arent all limp wristed screaming tinkerbells bent on creating a pink mafia. We arent all trying to dick little boys through bathroom walls and we arent all skulking predators in the dark alleys outside of gay bars. Hell, I am even scared of those people...but unfortunately thats all you ever get to hear about because of a sensationalist media that is more concerned about ratings than objectively showing what gay life is really like as a norm.

And you should have equal rights regardless of your sexual preference and I am all for that...........I do draw the line at marriage......I think what you want can be accomplished with Civil Unions.........I think it would be very wrong to change the definition of marriage............

You sound exactly like a couple of gay friends I have..........They are angry about how a small minority of gays portray the gay community..They want to live their lives in peace and harmony just like any other American..........I wish you luck and God speed in that endeavor............

My personal feelings are taught to me through my Roman Catholic faith......I can not condone Gay sex because I believe it is a mortal sin just like any
other sin................We are taught to love the sinner and hate the sin regardless whether the sin is committed by a gay or straight man..........

I really feel that you and I think alike in a lot of ways.......

Take care
 

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Navy Pride said:
And you should have equal rights regardless of your sexual preference and I am all for that...........I do draw the line at marriage......I think what you want can be accomplished with Civil Unions.........I think it would be very wrong to change the definition of marriage............

You sound exactly like a couple of gay friends I have..........They are angry about how a small minority of gays portray the gay community..They want to live their lives in peace and harmony just like any other American..........I wish you luck and God speed in that endeavor............

My personal feelings are taught to me through my Roman Catholic faith......I can not condone Gay sex because I believe it is a mortal sin just like any
other sin................We are taught to love the sinner and hate the sin regardless whether the sin is committed by a gay or straight man..........

I really feel that you and I think alike in a lot of ways.......

Take care

Actually I think we do too. And if I ever came off attacking you in any way, I have to apologize for that. This issue gets so sensitive that people stop listening to eachother and simply register the rhetoric. I am Roman Catholic also and actually considered the priesthood once my stint with the Navy was done. However, unlike some of my gay peers, I feel the sacrament of marraige is a purely religious matter while the idea of Civil Union is a compromise the government could easily make. Its the same reason I never joined the priesthood...it is not my place to presume the Church should change its stand on this issue. Further, if you dont like a private institution, dont be a part of it. That element of gay culture which is most often seen in the media has alienated some very viable allies to the real and just goals we seek to accomplish. I am glad you have not been alienated and see past them and I appreciate your good wishes toward our struggle!

Oh my goodness...did we just find a common ground, navy? :cheers:
 
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