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A Friendly Reminder About Who and What Hamas Is

Felis Leo said:
It is not a matter of saying "But America," but a matter of how a country should be viewed and how long a nation's ignominy should remain before it is attenuated. I have never seen you change your mind about anything and I do not expect to change yours now. You clearly despise Israel as a state for the very particular reason that they helped a racist regime in the past attain nuclear weapons technology and that assistance should forever stain it with ignominy no matter what it does subsequently. I think that is deeply irrational, but your feelings are your feelings and it would be equally irrational of me to expect you to come to some turnaround in your worldview.

After all, I have very particular views of what should have been done to Germany post-World War 2 that fall outside of the mainstream view, including the wider-spread of criminal prosecutions as well as the forcible division of the country into several separate German-speaking states. It is perhaps best that our country did not undertake the policy that we may nearly have prescribed and that resonated with me.
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Why should we have done that? The Soviet Union was far more evil then Nazi Germany and a largely unified Germany was needed to put industrial and military capacity against the Soviets.

The Russians were sponsoring communism everywhere from Finland to Spain to France (where their intelligence services created lotsa internal turmoil) they occupied Eastern Europe, etc the industrial and military capacity of unified Germany was needed to fight communism.

Which was a far greater global threat then Naziism was. Nazis killed 6 million in genocides commies killed 50+ million.
 
Felis Leo said:
Our country has sided with and supported repellent dictatorships in the past when we were up against the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact (and we sadly continue to do so in a few notable cases). I do not hear you claiming that our nation should be branded as unscrupulous forever and a day as a result. Israel sided with and provided weapons technology to a repellant dictatorship for purposes of ensuring its tenuous national security against those countries which literally tried to extirpate it and its people. I fail to see how their actions are any different.
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Which notable cases of dictatorships we support today are “sad”?

Do you view dictatorships as inherently wrong to start with?
 
Tigerace117 said:
And Israel helped a viciously racist dictatorship gain nukes.
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South Africa was not a “vicious” dictatorship in any sense. It was a prosperous representative republic with rule of law. It’s a dictatorship now for all intents and purposes. And much poorer
 
EMNofSeattle said:
South Africa was not a “vicious” dictatorship in any sense. It was a prosperous representative republic with rule of law. It’s a dictatorship now for all intents and purposes. And much poorer
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Wrong on both counts. The apartheid regime was both vicious and a dictatorship for anyone who wasn’t the “right” skin color. Likewise, there was no “rule of law” if you weren’t the “right” skin color. But I’m not surprised a Pinochet fanboy would mourn apartheid.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Wrong on both counts. The apartheid regime was both vicious and a dictatorship for anyone who wasn’t the “right” skin color. Likewise, there was no “rule of law” if you weren’t the “right” skin color. But I’m not surprised a Pinochet fanboy would mourn apartheid.
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No, the South African government was not a dictatorship. Most of the blacks were non political and not harassed by the government of South Africa, they were largely untaxed, governed according to local custom, and not subjected to military conscription.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No, the South African government was not a dictatorship. Most of the blacks were non political and not harassed by the government of South Africa, they were largely untaxed, governed according to local custom, and not subjected to military conscription.
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The apartheid regime absolutely was a dictatorship to anyone who wasn’t the “right” skin color. It didn’t matter if “blacks” were political or not, the government still routinely harassed and denied them basic rights as human beings. The “native homelands“/ bantustans were little more than underounded pits where the non white population was forced to live in squalor. Non white South Africans’ movement was laughably restricted, they weren’t allowed to employ white South Africans, they couldn’t enter most hotels or restaurants unless they were working there and their tax threshold was substantially lower than that of white South Africans; black South Africans were taxed if they earned more than 360 rand a year while white South Africans were taxed if they earned more than 750 rand a year.

Learn actual history.
 
I'll accept Noam Chomsky's views on Israel, not right-wingers' in this thread.

Some quotes:
Noam Chomsky said:
It ends up that about 90% of the land [in Israel] is reserved for people of Jewish race, religion and origin. If 90% of the land in the United States were reserved for people of white, Christian race, religion and origin, I'd be opposed. So would the ADL. We should accept universal values.
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Noam Chomsky said:
“In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid,” Chomsky says. “To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by 'apartheid' you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. … The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison.”
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Antiwar said:
I'll accept Noam Chomsky's views on Israel, not right-wingers' in this thread.

A quote:
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Noam Chomsky was badly wrong on Bosnia and Cambodia. I wouldn’t take him as gospel.
 
Antiwar said:
I'll accept Noam Chomsky's views on Israel, not right-wingers' in this thread.

Some quotes:
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There is no obligation for a Jewish state to give equal rights to Arabs. The Arabs can submit to Jewish mastery or leave. Equal electoral power would be detrimental to the Jewish character of the state.

There is already Arab majority states in the rest of the middle east
 
EMNofSeattle said:
There is no obligation for a Jewish state to give equal rights to Arabs. The Arabs can submit to Jewish mastery or leave. Equal electoral power would be detrimental to the Jewish character of the state.

There is already Arab majority states in the rest of the middle east
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All of your commentary (that I have read) is awful.
 
Antiwar said:
That's an odd way of trying to justify your lies.
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It’s not a lie. A Jewish state can privilege jews. That’s reality
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Is a good thing, but returning to an ancestral homeland is not colonialism
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I'm not going to waste any more anything on your commentary. In fact, it's time to put you on ignore.
 
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