• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A Four-Decade Secret: The Untold Story of Sabotaging Jimmy Carter’s Re-election

MTAtech

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
36,525
Reaction score
35,427
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal

A Four-Decade Secret: The Untold Story of Sabotaging Jimmy Carter’s Re-election


It was 1980 and Jimmy Carter was in the White House, bedeviled by a hostage crisis in Iran that had paralyzed his presidency and hampered his effort to win a second term. Mr. Carter’s best chance for victory was to free the 52 Americans held captive before Election Day. That was something that Mr. Barnes said his mentor was determined to prevent.
...
What happened next Mr. Barnes has largely kept secret for nearly 43 years. Mr. Connally, he said, took him to one Middle Eastern capital after another that summer, meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.

===========
It was something many suspected, Reagan conspired to sabotage efforts to release the Americans held hostage by Iran, and thus keep them captives longer, so as to hurt Carter's re-election chances. Now, one of the people who was part of the conspiracy, comes forward.
 

A Four-Decade Secret: The Untold Story of Sabotaging Jimmy Carter’s Re-election


It was 1980 and Jimmy Carter was in the White House, bedeviled by a hostage crisis in Iran that had paralyzed his presidency and hampered his effort to win a second term. Mr. Carter’s best chance for victory was to free the 52 Americans held captive before Election Day. That was something that Mr. Barnes said his mentor was determined to prevent.
...
What happened next Mr. Barnes has largely kept secret for nearly 43 years. Mr. Connally, he said, took him to one Middle Eastern capital after another that summer, meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.

===========
It was something many suspected, Reagan conspired to sabotage efforts to release the Americans held hostage by Iran, and thus keep them captives longer, so as to hurt Carter's re-election chances. Now, one of the people who was part of the conspiracy, comes forward.
Yep, one of the high priests of conservatism was not only an ideological turncoat (remember, RR was President of the Screen Actors Guild, that bastion of Hollywood liberalism) and was willing to provide weapons to terrorists (Iran-Contra). He was also willing to keep American hostages held long past the time they could have been released simply to make sure he got elected.
 

A Four-Decade Secret: The Untold Story of Sabotaging Jimmy Carter’s Re-election


It was 1980 and Jimmy Carter was in the White House, bedeviled by a hostage crisis in Iran that had paralyzed his presidency and hampered his effort to win a second term. Mr. Carter’s best chance for victory was to free the 52 Americans held captive before Election Day. That was something that Mr. Barnes said his mentor was determined to prevent.
...
What happened next Mr. Barnes has largely kept secret for nearly 43 years. Mr. Connally, he said, took him to one Middle Eastern capital after another that summer, meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.

===========
It was something many suspected, Reagan conspired to sabotage efforts to release the Americans held hostage by Iran, and thus keep them captives longer, so as to hurt Carter's re-election chances. Now, one of the people who was part of the conspiracy, comes forward.

Jimmy Carter actually told the truth about Israel, that was never going to be permitted.
 
So I gather Reagan was in league with the Ayatollahs in defeating the Evangelical Christian Jimmy Carter. Now I've heard it all.
 
Interesting historical footnote, but I don't think it changes anything. The Iranians had nothing to gain by releasing the hostages while Carter was in office.
Yeah, and they gained from all of the arms the Reagan admin sold them from '81 through to the Contra affair.
 
History has not been kind to Jimmy Carter.
 
I think that we collectively have dismissed just how corrupt to the core the Reagan Administration was.
They played all sides. They armed the Iraqis, the Iranians, the Contras, paid off Hezbollah.....all with this "shining bright city on the hill" veneer. Raygun's greatest acting role was being the the head of the most stealthily corrupt admin ever. Trump's was worse, all but the most diehard saw through him, but the Raygun admin fooled so many more.
 
The conclusion that I am forced to come to is that Republicans hate Americans.
Really? I have come to the opposite conclusion. Biden's odious and hateful speech demonizing Trump supporters, Hillary's deplorable talk, Obama's
bitter clingers reference, etc. It is actually the left that hates Americans and it is not a conclusion one is "forced" to arrive at; they say it proudly.
 
Figures. I remember noticing how quickly the hostages were released after Reagan took office, and I was very young at the time. My dad watches and reads the news a lot, so I was fairly up on current events from a young age.
 
So I gather Reagan was in league with the Ayatollahs in defeating the Evangelical Christian Jimmy Carter. Now I've heard it all.
Literally yes. He sold weapons to terrorists, but you think this was too far for him? Lol.
 
Really? I have come to the opposite conclusion. Biden's odious and hateful speech demonizing Trump supporters, Hillary's deplorable talk, Obama's
bitter clingers reference, etc. It is actually the left that hates Americans and it is not a conclusion one is "forced" to arrive at; they say it proudly.
Did Obama or Biden tell hostage takers to hang onto American citizens to wait for a better deal?

Oh I’m sorry they said mean things about you? That is what you are crying about?

Hillary Clinton’s mistake was being too PC about Trumpers.
 
Did Obama or Biden tell hostage takers to hang onto American citizens to wait for a better deal?

Oh I’m sorry they said mean things about you? That is what you are crying about?

Hillary Clinton’s mistake was being too PC about Trumpers.
I am saying that the left has shown that they Americans, not the right. You should follow the thread.
 
So I gather Reagan was in league with the Ayatollahs in defeating the Evangelical Christian Jimmy Carter. Now I've heard it all.
The population of Tampico, IL was 600 when Reagan was born there. John Shaheen's father was the grocer. His daughter,
John's sister, was married to Barbara Walter's mentor and broadcast partner, Hugh Downs, more than 60 years.

Critical thinker, a curse and a blessing. I've lived the curse portion, can someone share the blessing experience?

Tampico's population is less than 700.
-snip- https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1981/02/28/british-lace-and-grace/9a190983-619a-4f54-8075-9b02dec12b13/
February 28, 1981
"Other congressional leaders included ..John Shaheen of New York, chairman of Shaheen Natural Resources Co., was probably the only guest who had known Reagan as a boy in Tampico, Ill. ..."
-snip-

1679186395171.jpeg

https://www.washingtonpost.com › archive › opinions › 1992 › 12 › 06 › the-looking-glass-surprise › e6457350-9990-475
a-9c6f-2f107120dad3

THE LOOKING-GLASS 'SURPRISE' - Washington Post

Dec 6, 1992 The wiretaps and other evidence demonstrated that Hashemi was a close business associate of Casey's longtime friend, John Shaheen, a New York-based oilman who had known Casey since both...

https://www.upi.com › Archives › 1987 › 03 › 16 › Television-correspondent-Barbara-Walters-relayed-secret-messages-from-an › 2777542869200

Television correspondent Barbara Walters relayed secret messages from ...

Mar 16, 1987 Walters, who has a multimillion-dollar contract with the network, transmitted information from Ghorbanifar to Reagan on U.S. arms sales to Iran, including allegations about payments made to...

https://www.nytimes.com › 1991 › 09 › 20 › us › gates-hearings-what-he-told-gates-iran-text-ex-cia-officer-s-answers-senate.html

THE GATES HEARINGS; What He Told Gates on Iran: Text of Ex-C.I.A ...

Sep 20, 1991 He added that Mr. Gates could not recall this conversation. Q. Your memo of 7 November on your 6 November meeting with Furmark [ Roy Furmark, a New York businessman and friend of Mr. Casey...

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Roy_Furmark

Roy Furmark - Wikipedia

Roy M. Furmark (28 September 1931 - 4 January 2001) [1] was a New York businessman who played a role in the Iran-Contra affair in a number of ways, including acting as a link between CIA Director William Casey and Saudi billionaire Adnan Khashoggi, who financed the arms deal at the center of the affair.
 
Last edited:

A Four-Decade Secret: The Untold Story of Sabotaging Jimmy Carter’s Re-election


It was 1980 and Jimmy Carter was in the White House, bedeviled by a hostage crisis in Iran that had paralyzed his presidency and hampered his effort to win a second term. Mr. Carter’s best chance for victory was to free the 52 Americans held captive before Election Day. That was something that Mr. Barnes said his mentor was determined to prevent.
...
What happened next Mr. Barnes has largely kept secret for nearly 43 years. Mr. Connally, he said, took him to one Middle Eastern capital after another that summer, meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.

===========
It was something many suspected, Reagan conspired to sabotage efforts to release the Americans held hostage by Iran, and thus keep them captives longer, so as to hurt Carter's re-election chances. Now, one of the people who was part of the conspiracy, comes forward.
Yes the GOP has a long history of cheating in elections. Reagan also traded arms for hostages in Iran-Contra.

Between 1981 and 1986, senior administration officials secretly facilitated the sale of arms to Iran, which was the subject of an arms embargo.[2] The administration hoped to use the proceeds of the arms sale to fund the Contras, a right-wing rebel group, in Nicaragua. Under the Boland Amendment, further funding of the Contras by the government had been prohibited by Congress.
The official justification for the arms shipments was that they were part of an operation to free seven American hostages being held in Lebanon by Hezbollah, an Islamist paramilitary group with Iranian ties connected to the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.[3] The idea to exchange arms for hostages was proposed by Manucher Ghorbanifar, an expatriate Iranian arms dealer.[4][5][6] Some within the Reagan administration hoped the sales would influence Iran to get Hezbollah to release the hostages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–...weapon sales were,not trade arms for hostages.
 
The conclusion that I am forced to come to is that Republicans hate Americans.

And it also proves that there, indeed, is intelligent life on Mars.
 
I am saying that the left has shown that they Americans, not the right. You should follow the thread.
And they showed that by *checks notes* being big meanies?

And not, for example, deliberately letting Americans rot in an Iranian prison to help themself win an election?

Just want to be clear on what you are saying. Biden name called you, and that is why you are mad. You’re not mad about deliberately causing Americans to stay in an Iranian prison. That doesn’t make you mad.
 
Yes the GOP has a long history of cheating in elections. Reagan also traded arms for hostages in Iran-Contra.
-snip-
It is not an "untold" story. Is it merely coincidence the publisher of the Washington Post, Fred Ryan, is like an adopted son of Reagan and chooses the
executive editor of that newspaper, and former Indiana Rep. Lee Hamilton (D-IN) did such a prompt job acceding to Bush '41`s demand that the October Surprise congressional committee investigation be immediately closed in July, 1992 during Bush's campaign against Clinton, that Bush '43 rewarded Hamilton with both co-chair positions on the 911 Investigation and Jim Baker's Iraq Study Group in 2006.

Notice a pattern? It's always the G.O.P. conducted political Ops, cloaked by MSM reluctance to speak truth to power.

https://www.kaibird.com/news/details/58

Kai Bird sues State Department for 1980 'October Surprise ...

https://www.rcfp.org › bird-october-surprise-foia

Oct 29, 2019 — The complaint calls out the State Department's failure to respond to a records request submitted more than three years ago.

Some 'October surprise' conspiracies turn out to be true​

Aug 21, 2018​

...
....
As a historian, I am always skeptical of conspiracies. But as McCloy blurted out in 1963, some plots do exist.

And then there was the alleged October surprise of 1980. The Reagan administration and Republicans always denied that they had any back-door negotiations with Ayatollah Khomeini's revolutionary regime during the Iran hostage crisis. Specifically, they denied that Reagan's campaign manager, William J. Casey, traveled surreptitiously to Madrid in the summer of 1980 to meet with a representative of the ayatollah, and to suggest that it might be in Iran's interest to stall the negotiations over the release of the American hostages. Casey allegedly intimated that a Reagan administration would resume arms sales to the Iranians.

These allegations seemed too outrageous, too outlandish to be believed. Journalists investigated. A House October Surprise Task Force delved into the story. Two good books, Gary Sick's "October Surprise" (1992) and Robert Parry's "Trick or Treason" (1993), made strong circumstantial arguments that something had happened, though neither were able to prove that Casey had flown to Madrid. But just a few years ago, Parry discovered a damning memo in the George H.W. Bush Presidential Library. Dated Nov. 4, 1991, the memo was written by President Bush's deputy counsel, Paul Beach, and it described the State Department's efforts to collect documents in response to congressional subpoenas for "material potentially relevant to the October Surprise allegations." Beach then specifically mentions "a cable from the Madrid embassy indicating that Bill Casey was in town, for purposes unknown."

So we now know that Casey took time off from his campaign duties sometime in the summer of 1980 to visit Madrid. For "purposes unknown." That's all we know: There is a 1991 White House memo about a State Department cable that was presumably dated in 1980. We do not know if Casey went to Madrid with the knowledge of his candidate. Indeed, from what we know about Casey's love for intrigue and even skullduggery, this former spy and veteran of the World War II-era Office of Strategic Services may have initiated his own back-door channel to the Iranians without any authorization from Reagan. But I think it is now reasonable to conclude that Casey did something. The Iranians dragged out the negotiations over the release of the hostages. President Carter believed these negotiations were nearly successful in late September 1980, but suddenly new demands were made that stalled the talks. Polls showed Carter within single digits of catching Reagan until about 10 days before the election. Carter lost decisively, and the hostages were inexplicably released minutes after Reagan was sworn in as president.

The story does not end there. Months later, Reagan's newly installed CIA director, Casey, gave the green light to Israel to sell weapons to Iran. In retrospect, this was the beginning of the scandal that broke in 1987, when it became known that the Reagan administration had been exchanging weapons for hostages. .. someone in Trump's camp do what Casey did — and make a deal? If so, this will be very hard to unearth. But historically, Democrats have every reason to be wary."

677px-October_surprise_memo.jpg
 
Last edited:
i00?0?
And they showed that by *checks notes* being big meanies?

And not, for example, deliberately letting Americans rot in an Iranian prison to help themself win an election?

Just want to be clear on what you are saying. Biden name called you, and that is why you are mad. You’re not mad about deliberately causing Americans to stay in an Iranian prison. That doesn’t make you mad.
Biden said half the country is a threat to America. This is a little more serious than name calling.
 
Didn’t Nixon keep the Viet Nam War going longer than needed…….to ensure reelection?
Yes, to ensure first election and LBJ may have died while trying to nail Nixon down while avoiding revealing sources and methods,,,,

A fellow bonesman, of course!
https://consortiumnews.com › 2018 › 12 › 01 ›

Taking a Bush Secret to the Grave -

By Robert Parry Special to Consortium News A three-decade-old mystery has finally been solved who was George H.W. Bush's unidentified "alibi witness" on Oct. 19, 1980, when other witnesses...

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Richard_A._Moore

Richard A. Moore - Wikipedia

Richard Anthony Moore (January 23, 1914 - January 27, 1995) was an American lawyer and communications executive, who served as special counsel to President Richard Nixon and was United States Ambassador to Ireland (1989-1992). [1] [2]


Daniel Schorr was age 78 when he wrote this in 1995,
https://www.washingtonpost.com › archive › opinions › 1995 › 05 › 28 › the-secret-nixon-lbj-war › 78bb77c3-e2e7-4261-b4d7-9aaad200ccde

THE SECRET NIXON-LBJ WAR - The Washington Post

May 28, 1995 "The request and the threat were duly conveyed to the LBJ ranch in Texas. According to Haldeman, the ex-president, talking to DeLoach, threatened, in response, to reveal something damaging to...
...Not many days later, on Jan. 22, 1973, Johnson had his fatal heart attack. President Nixon wrote in his diary that the "sadness" was that LBJ had not been able to establish his place in history by "winning a peace with honor in Vietnam." Daniel Schorr is senior news analyst for National Public Radio."
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom