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A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read more: h

Cold Highway

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

I actually have sympathy for some of these kids. If you're a poor kid living in an outer borough, there's no way you can get to a magnet school without the subway and there's no way your family can afford the extra $1070/year your metrocard would cost. It effectively takes away the ability of poor kids to go to schools like Stuyvesant or Bronx Science, which has always been a great equalizer.

At the very least, the metrocards should be available to low income students traveling a good distance to public schools.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

I actually have sympathy for some of these kids. If you're a poor kid living in an outer borough, there's no way you can get to a magnet school without the subway and there's no way your family can afford the extra $1070/year your metrocard would cost. It effectively takes away the ability of poor kids to go to schools like Stuyvesant or Bronx Science, which has always been a great equalizer.

At the very least, the metrocards should be available to low income students traveling a good distance to public schools.
I have to agree. I'm not entirely certain how the MetroCard program works, but I know what a problem transportation can be if you cant afford it. Making cards available only to low-income students or perhaps upping the rates for higher income students could help offset some of the cost.


In California, you are left with little choice other than getting a car. We subscribe to the "out not up" philosophy of building thus things are spread out to such a degree that even basic errands can cover MANY miles and take a long time. It's interesting to see the downtown area as there are fewer than 20 buildings taller than 10 stories or so. The frustrating aspect is auto insurance in California, which is legally required for a car to be driven, is extremely expensive, as is fuel and vehicle registration. Our public transit system is TERRIBLE and our traffic problems are monumental (EVERY hour is rush hour in LA). Thus is an interesting conundrum created; one must have a vehicle to get to a job that pays well enough to make enough money to afford to maintain a vehicle.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

Sounds like the parents should be arrested for not being able to provide for their kid. My kid's not your problem so why should your kid be my problem. It sucks, but nobody forced these people to hump so stop bugging me with their poor judgements in life.. Also, why can't the parents get involved and get a school built closer to their house. I imagine the property is cheap.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

Sounds like the parents should be arrested for not being able to provide for their kid. My kid's not your problem so why should your kid be my problem. It sucks, but nobody forced these people to hump so stop bugging me with their poor judgements in life.. Also, why can't the parents get involved and get a school built closer to their house. I imagine the property is cheap.
Yes, huge tracts of land in NYC are just sitting there, free for the taking.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

I actually have sympathy for some of these kids. If you're a poor kid living in an outer borough, there's no way you can get to a magnet school without the subway and there's no way your family can afford the extra $1070/year your metrocard would cost. It effectively takes away the ability of poor kids to go to schools like Stuyvesant or Bronx Science, which has always been a great equalizer.

At the very least, the metrocards should be available to low income students traveling a good distance to public schools.
I'm gonna disagree here. This mentality of "It's for the Children" leads to so much waste, so much reliance on the Gov't to live that the cycle's got to be broken, at all levels. Does it mean some kids might lose some opportunity in life, yes it does. That's just too bad. It's not the Gov'ts job to ensure such things, it's the parents. Yes, some parents won't and that's just how it is. Has anyone stopped to think that some of these kids parents don't find a way to pay for the metro card because they think it's NOT their job anymore?

Seriously, why should they give up $1070 Right says it costs a year when OTHER people will pay for it? That's sad. If you take away the "Gov't will do it for you" you'll see people finding ways to make it happen. And that's how it should be. Again, I'm not blind to the fact that SOME parents won't give two ****s and their kid won't go to a magnet school and maybe that's a shame, but the shame isn't on US it's on the parents.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards



Once again the spoiled brat mentality that is common among NYC kids rears its head.
Spoiled brats?

They're being quite truthful - the reason for the free cards is to let them GET to school because the state decided that it couldn't afford to BUS everyone - they figured "why not just use the metro!" . . . . so there's no school bus option.

:shrug:

The students have a right to complain - how else are they going to get where they are required to be? Buy a car? Hop a jet? Ah yes - WALK through the dangerous streets of New York because it's the safest place to be.

The government (state or federal) need to fix this problem ASAP.

However - Francis Lewis is actually suffering from overcrowding - the number of students who attend is that of a college campus. It's "the best" school - meaning that parents opt for that school over closer ones when deciding where to send their kiddos. If they're overlooking a closer school for attendance here - that should be considered.
 
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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

wonder how many have cell phones or cable tv at home Get rid of the phones, pay for the metrocard. Life is full of choices
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

Sounds like the parents should be arrested for not being able to provide for their kid. My kid's not your problem so why should your kid be my problem. It sucks, but nobody forced these people to hump so stop bugging me with their poor judgements in life.. Also, why can't the parents get involved and get a school built closer to their house. I imagine the property is cheap.
Amazing at the inability for some to see the reality of situations, and just spew their positions.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

I'm gonna disagree here. This mentality of "It's for the Children" leads to so much waste, so much reliance on the Gov't to live that the cycle's got to be broken, at all levels. Does it mean some kids might lose some opportunity in life, yes it does. That's just too bad. It's not the Gov'ts job to ensure such things, it's the parents. Yes, some parents won't and that's just how it is. Has anyone stopped to think that some of these kids parents don't find a way to pay for the metro card because they think it's NOT their job anymore?

Seriously, why should they give up $1070 Right says it costs a year when OTHER people will pay for it? That's sad. If you take away the "Gov't will do it for you" you'll see people finding ways to make it happen. And that's how it should be. Again, I'm not blind to the fact that SOME parents won't give two ****s and their kid won't go to a magnet school and maybe that's a shame, but the shame isn't on US it's on the parents.
What you don't realize is that society benefits collectively when society provides programs such as public transportation to magnet schools. The better every single kid gets educated the more likely our kids will grow up to be successes, which means they'll be less likely to be an economic burden and/or pursue criminal careers. So you can either pay for the lives of those kids through public transportation or you can pay for it through welfare or you can pay for it through the costs to incarcerate those who are getting educated now. But any way you want it, society as a collective pays for it.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

What you don't realize is that society benefits collectively when society provides programs such as public transportation to magnet schools.
At the cost of sounding cold hearted... not when that program costs more then society can afford.

The better every single kid gets educated the more likely our kids will grow up to be successes, which means they'll be less likely to be an economic burden and/or pursue criminal careers. So you can either pay for the lives of those kids through public transportation or you can pay for it through welfare or you can pay for it through the costs to incarcerate those who are getting educated now. But any way you want it, society as a collective pays for it.

This is pure speculation on your part, and you have very little evidence to back it up.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

At the cost of sounding cold hearted... not when that program costs more then society can afford.




This is pure speculation on your part, and you have very little evidence to back it up.
The cost of providing a public education $15k
The cost of busing a child to school $(some number of hundreds of dollars)
The cost of giving said child a free metrocard $(some number of hundreds of dollars, probably cheaper than paying to bus the child)

The cost of giving free metrocards to kids who actually need them is minuscule next to the cost of education itself or the amount that would be spent to bus them.

Or do you also think that there shouldn't be buses to drive kids to school? Everyone should just walk, no matter how far it is, and if a kid lives 3 miles away its his parents fault?
 
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Renae

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

The cost of providing a public education $15k
The cost of busing a child to school $(some number of hundreds of dollars)
The cost of giving said child a free metrocard $(some number of hundreds of dollars, probably cheaper than paying to bus the child)

The cost of giving free metrocards to kids who actually need them is minuscule next to the cost of education itself or the amount that would be spent to bus them.

Or do you also think that there shouldn't be buses to drive kids to school? Everyone should just walk, no matter how far it is, and if a kid lives 3 miles away its his parents fault?
Wait, it costs too much to bus them, and they cannot afford the Metro Cards.

I'm not seeing a winning solution here. Well, aside spending MORE money.
 

RightinNYC

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

Wait, it costs too much to bus them, and they cannot afford the Metro Cards.

I'm not seeing a winning solution here. Well, aside spending MORE money.
So you're saying that we shouldn't provide any transportation at all? I should have walked the 4 miles to the only public school within 30 miles of my house when I was growing up?

If school districts around the country provide kids with bus service in order to make it to school, I don't understand why NYC shouldn't provide metrocards for kids in the same situation. It's probably cheaper than anything else.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

So you're saying that we shouldn't provide any transportation at all? I should have walked the 4 miles to the only public school within 30 miles of my house when I was growing up?

If school districts around the country provide kids with bus service in order to make it to school, I don't understand why NYC shouldn't provide metrocards for kids in the same situation. It's probably cheaper than anything else.
Probably cheaper.

I was under, and correct me if I am wrong here, but the issue was Magnet School Students not getting metro cards. Now if it's ALL KIDS, that's diff. Transportation to School is part of the deal, hell did you read me old "Abolish the Department of Education" thread? Even I am not against provided transportation.

HOWEVER, if you live in X and there are schools near you but you want to attend a different school, that's on YOU, not the city.

If I misunderstood the issue... oops. My mistake.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

At the cost of sounding cold hearted... not when that program costs more then society can afford.
My guess is that the answer to this relative question depends on one's political ideology. There is no definitive quantitative answer to this. Purely relative to one's beliefs.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

At the cost of sounding cold hearted... not when that program costs more then society can afford.
Then lets cut things like our military spending, the war on drugs, and other government programs and instead invest in our children's futures.

This is pure speculation on your part, and you have very little evidence to back it up.
http://www.ceanational.org/PDFs/EdReducesCrime.pdf < PDF document

The Education-Crime Connection

Website estimates education's effect on health, crime, income - USATODAY.com

Very little evidence, huh?
 

RightinNYC

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

Probably cheaper.

I was under, and correct me if I am wrong here, but the issue was Magnet School Students not getting metro cards. Now if it's ALL KIDS, that's diff. Transportation to School is part of the deal, hell did you read me old "Abolish the Department of Education" thread? Even I am not against provided transportation.

HOWEVER, if you live in X and there are schools near you but you want to attend a different school, that's on YOU, not the city.

If I misunderstood the issue... oops. My mistake.
No worries.

NYC normally provides all kids with metrocards. I might actually be more to the "right" on you than this, as I don't think it needs to do so for kids who go to schools near their homes, much like my school only provided bus service for kids who lived more than 1/2 mile from school.

The cases where I think that it is necessary for the city to provide the kids with transportation is when the kid is attending a school that's not walking distance from their homes. Most frequently, this happens when the kid does very well on the admittance tests and gets accepted to one of the city's elite public schools. I know kids who ride the subway 2 hours each way, every day, just so that they can get out of their ****ty neighborhood in the Rockaways or Jamaica and attend Stuyvesant or Bronx Science. For kids like that, I've got no problem with allowing them to hitch rides on the trains for free, especially when there's no upfront cost to the city like there would be with busing them.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

No worries.

NYC normally provides all kids with metrocards. I might actually be more to the "right" on you than this, as I don't think it needs to do so for kids who go to schools near their homes, much like my school only provided bus service for kids who lived more than 1/2 mile from school.

The cases where I think that it is necessary for the city to provide the kids with transportation is when the kid is attending a school that's not walking distance from their homes. Most frequently, this happens when the kid does very well on the admittance tests and gets accepted to one of the city's elite public schools. I know kids who ride the subway 2 hours each way, every day, just so that they can get out of their ****ty neighborhood in the Rockaways or Jamaica and attend Stuyvesant or Bronx Science. For kids like that, I've got no problem with allowing them to hitch rides on the trains for free, especially when there's no upfront cost to the city like there would be with busing them.
Well, I'm a progressive when it comes to such issues, so here's what I think.

I think NYC should cut the salaries of all it's educators and educational administrators by 5%-10% a year, and possibly reduce many other public school programs. That money then goes to a fund to pay kids to go to school. Children who earn better grades will be able to earn more money. Those who are not academically inclined should get youth vocational training instead. For those who rely on metrocards to get to their school, the money can be taken out from their "student salary."

That's what I would try to propose.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

If my children can ride a bus for free to attend school then so should all other students. I fail to see how something that is standard practice across the entire US should become the financial burden of parents in a few unfortunate locations. There seems to be no logic in that.

it's basically telling people "because you live ___ you get shafted and your child's education isn't as important"

They already shafted the traditional and common public-bus transportation by expecting kids to ride the metro or city bus to school. So now they're trimming down the options to nil.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

Spoiled brats?

They're being quite truthful - the reason for the free cards is to let them GET to school because the state decided that it couldn't afford to BUS everyone - they figured "why not just use the metro!" . . . . so there's no school bus option.
These kids never heard of walking, taking a cab, bike riding, or (gasp) walking?


The students have a right to complain - how else are they going to get where they are required to be? Buy a car? Hop a jet? Ah yes - WALK through the dangerous streets of New York because it's the safest place to be.
I never said that they couldnt complain, their complains are assine. Its the whole "me me me" mentality. I work in a college town, NYC and Long Island kids have the biggest spoiled attitudes and most have no concept of actually having to work for something. Yes the streets of NYC are dangerous but thats because Feudal Lord Bloomberg and Albany put the most retarded gun laws on the books.

The government (state or federal) need to fix this problem ASAP.
Albany has enough problems to deal with and doesnt need the distraction of NYC bitching. I can only imagine how louder they'll get if the state government shuts down tomorrow due to having no money. In addition this is a local problem, the Federal Government has no business getting involved.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

I actually have sympathy for some of these kids. If you're a poor kid living in an outer borough, there's no way you can get to a magnet school without the subway and there's no way your family can afford the extra $1070/year your metrocard would cost. It effectively takes away the ability of poor kids to go to schools like Stuyvesant or Bronx Science, which has always been a great equalizer.

At the very least, the metrocards should be available to low income students traveling a good distance to public schools.
Be even better if the authority actually had the cash to fund this program.
 

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Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

These kids never heard of walking, taking a cab, bike riding, or (gasp) walking?




I never said that they couldnt complain, their complains are assine. Its the whole "me me me" mentality. I work in a college town, NYC and Long Island kids have the biggest spoiled attitudes and most have no concept of actually having to work for something. Yes the streets of NYC are dangerous but thats because Feudal Lord Bloomberg and Albany put the most retarded gun laws on the books.



Albany has enough problems to deal with and doesnt need the distraction of NYC bitching. I can only imagine how louder they'll get if the state government shuts down tomorrow due to having no money. In addition this is a local problem, the Federal Government has no business getting involved.
So you'd support anyother school district deciding to dissolve the public school bus program if money was *that* tight?

Or are you really just considering the attitudes (what you consider to be spoiled) of a few students over the actual issue at hand?

I'm not looking at "attitudes - because I know these suckers" I'm looking at it from a basic view of "if my children can have it then why not these students?"
 
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