A *few* of the CRIMES of ZIONISM

[Jenin]

A year and a half ago, in my first discussion on this board, I entered into a heated debate with 3 or more forumers about palestine.. in the midst of this debate I noticed a post by Tasha, where she said something like it would be better to discuss a solution than to discuss history... I agree and I intend on creating a thread intitled "The solution to the Palestinian Question"....BUT this thread is going to be my response to Face of Jacob and Vader's unrelenting propagation of 'arab crimes'...my point of this thread is to counter their propagation with a little bit of my own to make it clear that they are not innocent as they imply and to make it clear that injustice breeds injustice... i first hope i can edit this because this is just my test intro...


ONE: ZIONIST AND NAZI COLLABORATION:
Despite Zionism's best efforts, over 5,000 copies sold in 18 years before being put on the web:

www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/index.htm

Then Lyle Stuart of Barricade Books discovered that a friend, a Zionist propagandist, had never read the complete proposal of the "Stern Gang," 1940s Zionist terrorists, to go to war on Hitler's side. 51 Documents was born. Now Americans and others can read the evidence and judge for themselves.

David Yisraeli, a member of the Stern Gang, wrote the following in late 1940, as part of a proposal to Hitler. It was delivered in 1941 to two German diplomats in Lebanon.

"The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East" (p. 301).


TWO: Ethnic cleansing "Plan D"
In 1947, when the UN partition resolution number 181 was adopted, the Zionist leadership had begun to execute its plan, the notorious Plan D. According to the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, its purpose was not only to expel as many Palestinians as possible but to rapidly seize control of government offices, public institutions and services.

By 1948 and Israel’s so called “War of Independence”, Plan D had become a part of official Israeli policy, which decreed that any village or town refusing to surrender to the new state would be destroyed.

Yosef Weitz did not only advocate "transferring" the Palestinian people so the "Jewish state" would become a "Jewish majority", he also envisioned the "transfer" as a useful tool that could dispossess them from their lands. He stated in a meeting with the Transfer Committee on November 15, 1937:

"...the transfer of [Palestinian] Arab population from the area of the Jewish state does not serve only one aim--to diminish the Arab population. It also serves a second, no less important, aim which is to advocate land presently held and cultivated by the [Palestinian] Arabs and thus to release it for Jewish inhabitants." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 94-95)

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story644.html

 

[Tashah]

A year and a half ago, in my first discussion on this board, I entered into a heated debate with 3 or more forumers about palestine.. in the midst of this debate I noticed a post by Tasha, where she said something like it would be better to discuss a solution than to discuss history... I agree and I intend on creating a thread intitled "The solution to the Palestinian Question"....BUT this thread is going to be my response to Face of Jacob and Vader's unrelenting propagation of 'arab crimes'...my point of this thread is to counter their propagation with a little bit of my own to make it clear that they are not innocent as they imply and to make it clear that injustice breeds injustice... i first hope i can edit this because this is just my test intro...

I stand by my statement that history cannot be changed. What has gone before shall remain unchanged. True, both sides are biased to a degree on what they perceive to be the truth of history. But honestly Jenin, you can do this ad-nauseum and you will discover that you are right back where you started. Nothing has changed, and nothing has been solved.

You seem to me to be a very intelligent person. You can deal with today's reality, or you can thrash about forever in a sea of biased opinion. I have seen these sort of threads before and I already know the script by heart... proposition - rebuttal - recriminations - attacks - warnings - entrenchment - stalemate. Be prepared to waste precious amounts of time and energy on a journey without end to a destination that is elusive and always beyond reason.

btw... Ismi Tashah (My name is Tashah)

 

[Jenin]

Sorry about that. Shukran for correcting me ya bint ammi.
As for this thread... I do not intend to spend too much more time on it expanding...I just wanted to make it clear that two can play this game...I see Jacob exhasporating (sp) his energy exclusivly for the denounciation of palestinians, and so I wanted to point some things out. I will not reply to anyone else on this page, and I just wanted it to be a small record for all to see and know so I do not feel like I let a one sided attack go by... *note the following is a joke --* -- after all, isnt that all we are good for, a tit for tat battle?

Tashah, umm I cannot edit my thread anymore..is there a possibility i can be allowed to do that just a couple more times?? Then Im done, I promise...My greater concern is to partake in a peace discussion (as you proposed to me once)...but I just want to add a couple more things and end it there, just to say to the Jacobs and Vaders out here to look it up if they think this is a black n white affair, just to outly the underlying scar...


and ofcourse to correct the spelling of your name

 

[Vader]

A year and a half ago, in my first discussion on this board, I entered into a heated debate with 3 or more forumers about palestine.. in the midst of this debate I noticed a post by Tasha, where she said something like it would be better to discuss a solution than to discuss history... I agree and I intend on creating a thread intitled "The solution to the Palestinian Question"....BUT this thread is going to be my response to Face of Jacob and Vader's unrelenting propagation of 'arab crimes'...my point of this thread is to counter their propagation with a little bit of my own to make it clear that they are not innocent as they imply and to make it clear that injustice breeds injustice... i first hope i can edit this because this is just my test intro...


ONE: ZIONIST AND NAZI COLLABORATION:
Despite Zionism's best efforts, over 5,000 copies sold in 18 years before being put on the web:

www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/index.htm

Then Lyle Stuart of Barricade Books discovered that a friend, a Zionist propagandist, had never read the complete proposal of the "Stern Gang," 1940s Zionist terrorists, to go to war on Hitler's side. 51 Documents was born. Now Americans and others can read the evidence and judge for themselves.

David Yisraeli, a member of the Stern Gang, wrote the following in late 1940, as part of a proposal to Hitler. It was delivered in 1941 to two German diplomats in Lebanon.

"The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East" (p. 301).


TWO: Ethnic cleansing "Plan D"
In 1947, when the UN partition resolution number 181 was adopted, the Zionist leadership had begun to execute its plan, the notorious Plan D. According to the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, its purpose was not only to expel as many Palestinians as possible but to rapidly seize control of government offices, public institutions and services.

By 1948 and Israel’s so called “War of Independence”, Plan D had become a part of official Israeli policy, which decreed that any village or town refusing to surrender to the new state would be destroyed.

Yosef Weitz did not only advocate "transferring" the Palestinian people so the "Jewish state" would become a "Jewish majority", he also envisioned the "transfer" as a useful tool that could dispossess them from their lands. He stated in a meeting with the Transfer Committee on November 15, 1937:

"...the transfer of [Palestinian] Arab population from the area of the Jewish state does not serve only one aim--to diminish the Arab population. It also serves a second, no less important, aim which is to advocate land presently held and cultivated by the [Palestinian] Arabs and thus to release it for Jewish inhabitants." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 94-95)

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story644.html

To start with, the nazis would NEVER have been allies with a marxist force of ANY kind. Adolf Hitler hated Karl Marx so badly that he ordered all of Marx's books confiscated and burned.

From 1936 - 1945 Marxism of ANY kind inside German borders or inside of any Nazi-controlled country would INSTANTLY draw a death sentence

I'm sorry, Jenin, but you're greatly mistaken about ties between Marxists and Nazis.

:doh

 

[Jenin]

Vader, Please visit the links I provided and read for yourself..You misunderstood the point I was making.

 

[The face of Jacob]

David Yisraeli, a member of the Stern Gang, wrote the following in late 1940, as part of a proposal to Hitler. It was delivered in 1941 to two German diplomats in Lebanon....

Couple of things:

Stern "gang", Irgun (Etzel), Haganah, Lechi etc are not terrorist organizations but were organizations that fought against a British terror regime that occupied the land of Israel which isn't a British territory, suppressed the life of the Jews in Israel and prevented from death camp survivors to arrive to Israel and let them die at sea.

There are couple of idiots who may claim that they were terrorist organizations cause "they bomb the King David Hotel". This is the stupidity at it's best. KDH wasn't a hotel in the same way of Park hotel in the Israeli city of Netanya was, that some scum from Jenin blow himself at this hotel at Passover eve 2002 murdering dozens of innocent Israelis. The British military headquarters was in the west part of the KDH and this part was exploded when the members of the Irgun put a bomb in this part and warned the British in this western part that there is a bomb inside and that they must get out if they want to be save. The decision to bomb this western part was to hurt these British military headquarters who as I've said before suppresed the life of the Jews and prevented from death camp survivors to enter Israel. The answer of the British soldiers in the western part was: "We dom't take orders from the Jews."

Now, the members of the Irgun didn't bomb themselves in British civilian facilities in London, nor send bombs to these kind of places nor educated their children that the British are children of apes and pigs and that they all must be killed in the name of Jihad.

In 1948, these organizations have merged into the IDF under one commander in the name of Yaakov Dori, and the IDF fought the war that many Muslim/Arab countries have opened on Israel only one day after the declaration in the UN, cause they didn't accept the UN offer.

Now, I tried to enter the link that the one in the name of the nest of terror have put but it so long and so bothersome that it doesn't important in the end of the day. I don't believe that Jews have said such things and if they indeed have said that it's not represent the Jews at all. And the most important thing is that they didn't invent the term 'Zionism'. Zionism is patriotism of the people of Zion, like any other patriots of other countries. All the people of the world have the right to be patriots in their countries except the Jews? That sound as racism to me. What about the 22 Muslim/Arab countries? Do they have the rights to be patriots? If so then also the Jews.

Zionism is a term in the age of more than 3300 years, and Jews have prayed to Zion also when they were in the exile. Jews have rights to live in their own land without enemies who wish to destroy them. Arabs/Muslims have 22 countries (which they stole by the power of the sword by forcing millions of non Muslims to convert to Islam, byt the way, I have read an article in the last weekend in the Israeli newspaper Maariv about that that in the 19th century, the Egyptian leader, Muhamad Ali, he conquered the land of Israel and forced Jews to become Muslims, so many Arabs who call themselves as Palestinians may have Jewish blood. I'll write about it next week) so the Jews have also the right to lie in their little tiny land. Not because the Muslims that have their own countries but because God is saying so in the Tanach.

And would you like to hear what the so called Palestinians have said? (not to mention all his terror acts)

Yasser Arafat in 1970 said (Washington Post March 19, 1970)

The goal of our struggle is the end of Israel, and there can be no compromise.

El Mundo, of Caracas, Venzuela reports Arafat as saying (Feb 11, 1980)

Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations. Since Jan. 1965, when Fatah was born, we have become the most dangerous enemy that Israel has...We shall not rest until the day when we return to our home, and until we destroy Israel.

On September 13, 1995 - the same day that the peace agreement ceremony was
held in Washington D.C., Yasser Arafat spoke on Jordan Television:

Since we cannot defeat Israel in war we do this in stages. We take any and
every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish sovereignty there,
and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can
get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel.

The late King Hussein was fond of describing Arafat as a man:

Who never comes to a bridge he can’t double cross.

U.S. News and World Report quoted Arafat as saying (May 1 1989 p78)

I am not seeking the peace of compromise, but the peace of Saladin.

Arafat in a speech to Arab diplomats in the Spiegel Salon at the Grand Hotel in
Stockholm, Sweden (Jan 30, 1996) said:

We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem. Peres and Beilin have already promised us half of Jerusalem. The Golan Heights have already been given away, subject to just a few details. We will take over everything including all of Jerusalem! We of the P.L.O. will now concentrate all our efforts on splitting Israel psychologically into two camps. Within five years we will have six to seven million Arabs living on the West bank and in Jerusalem. All Palestinian Arabs will be welcomed back by us. If the Jews can import all kinds of Ethiopians, Russians, Uzbekians and Ukranians as Jews, then we can import all kinds of Arabs to us! You understand that we plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian State. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion; Jews will not want to live among us Arabs! I have no use for Jews, they are and remain Jews!"

The above is quoted in Prof Murray Kahl's article - 'Arafat's secret plans for the "total collapse of Israel"'

Former U.S. Ambassador Jeanne Kirkpatrick on Arafat's Goal (The Case Against Arafat ZOA pamphlet)

Arafat's goal, Fatah's goal, has been the destruction of Israel. From time to time it has been clearly stated. It was clarified again recently in the extraordinary interview of Arafat aide Faisal al-Husseini, granted just before Husseini's death and just after Arafat had turned down the generous offer Israel had made to Arafat. The interview, titled "The Oslo Accords Were a Trojan Horse: The Strategic Goal is the Liberation of Palestine from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea," was published in the Egyptian daily, Al-Arabic. In that interview, Husseini abandoned the pretext so long maintained that he and the leadership of the Palestinian Authority sought or would ever have settled for anything less than total control of the whole of Israel.

In this interview, the "moderate" Husseini spoke with rare candor about his own and the PLO's goals. He emphasized that the Oslo Accords, however flawed, had served the purposes of Arafat and the PLO. The Accords, he said, had one great merit, they had permitted the PLO to "enter their country." He emphasized, "The Strategic Goal is and must be a Palestinian State from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.... Our ultimate goal is the liberation of all historic Palestine from the [Jordan] River to the Mediterranean Sea, even if this means that the conflict will last for another thousand years or for many generations."

We must continue to focus on the higher goal and never forget it. It is the liberation of Palestine from the river to the sea...," Husseini said. He tells us that the Trojan Horse is the mask with which a Palestinian disguises himself and finally, enters Israel in order to seize it.

Article 15 of the Palestinian National Covenant (1968)

The liberation of Palestine, from the Arab viewpoint, is a national duty to repulse the Zionist, imperialist invasion from the great Arab homeland and to purge the Zionist presence from Palestine. Its full responsibilities fall upon the Arab nation, peoples and governments, with the Palestinian Arab people at its head.

Quotes from PA leaders corroborating Arafat:

We shall never allow Israel to live in peace. We shall never allow it total security. Every Israeli will feel that behind every wall there might be a guerrilla who is aiming at me...Farouk Kaddoumi head of the PLO's political department in an Interview in Stern, West Germany on July 30, 1981

Our agreements with the Israelis are like the Trojan horse. I explain to our people that this is the only way to get into the walls of Jerusalem, like the wooden horse the Greeks used against the Trojans.
-- Faisal Husseini, who ran Orient House as Arafat's representative in Jerusalem in an interview with an Egyptian magazine before his death in May 2001 quoted by Amnon Dankner in Ma'ariv, July 13, 2001

...this state will be an independent Palestinian state and will function as a base from which to liberate Jaffa, Akko, and all of Palestine... Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad) interview with Al-Safir, Lebanon, Jan. 25, 1988

The right of the Palestinian nation to self-determination is expressed in the exposure and the destruction of the Zionist idea, and of Israel, which is the result of that idea. Sami el Atri, Secretary of the Palestinian Central Committee in an interview with the Kuwaiti paper Al-Kabas March 7, 1978.

We are discussing the current problems and when we speak about Jerusalem it doesn't mean that we have forgotten about Hebron or about Jaffa or about Acre..we are speaking about the current problems that have priority at a certain time. It doesn't mean that we have given up... We have announced a number of times that from a religious point of view Palestine from the sea to the river is Islamic." [Note: Jaffa and Acre are Israeli cities.]
- - Sheikh Ikrima Sabri - The Palestinian Authority appointed Mufti of Jerusalem and Palestine on Palestinian Television, 11 January 2001

Even if agreements were signed [regarding] Gaza and the West Bank, we will not forget [the currently Israeli cities of] Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, the Galilee Triangle, and the Negev. It is only a question of time.
- - Dr. Ahmed Abu Halabiah, Palestinian Television, 13 October 2000

All of the agreements entered into [with Israel] are temporary, until the decree comes from Allah and until the destiny from Allah is realized.
- - Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Madi., Palestinian Television, 28 July 2000

We exaggerate when we say 'peace'... what we are speaking about is 'Hudna', a temporary ceasefire.
-- Arab Knesset Member Abdel Maleh Dahamshe, Palestinian Television, 1 September 2000

Zayid Wahba, Arafat's Fatah commander in Lebanon in as-Safir in January 1989

When we call for the establishment of a Palestinian state on any part of the land of Palestine-that does not mean we have relinquished our historic rights in all of Palestine.

The chairman of the PLO parliament in late December 89 said:

We also aspire for [all of Palestine]. However, in light of the current international political state of affairs, we are working within available possibilities and afterward we will demand more.

Arafat's Ultimate Plan

 

[Jenin]

Most of these quotes are before oslo, and I can provide a hundred equivalent and more racist murderous quotes by Zionists.
Arafat is dead. Israel OCCUPIES Palestine.

 

[Australianlibertarian]

A year and a half ago, in my first discussion on this board, I entered into a heated debate with 3 or more forumers about palestine.. in the midst of this debate I noticed a post by Tasha, where she said something like it would be better to discuss a solution than to discuss history... I agree and I intend on creating a thread intitled "The solution to the Palestinian Question"....BUT this thread is going to be my response to Face of Jacob and Vader's unrelenting propagation of 'arab crimes'...my point of this thread is to counter their propagation with a little bit of my own to make it clear that they are not innocent as they imply and to make it clear that injustice breeds injustice... i first hope i can edit this because this is just my test intro...


ONE: ZIONIST AND NAZI COLLABORATION:
Despite Zionism's best efforts, over 5,000 copies sold in 18 years before being put on the web:

www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/index.htm

Then Lyle Stuart of Barricade Books discovered that a friend, a Zionist propagandist, had never read the complete proposal of the "Stern Gang," 1940s Zionist terrorists, to go to war on Hitler's side. 51 Documents was born. Now Americans and others can read the evidence and judge for themselves.

David Yisraeli, a member of the Stern Gang, wrote the following in late 1940, as part of a proposal to Hitler. It was delivered in 1941 to two German diplomats in Lebanon.

"The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East" (p. 301).


TWO: Ethnic cleansing "Plan D"
In 1947, when the UN partition resolution number 181 was adopted, the Zionist leadership had begun to execute its plan, the notorious Plan D. According to the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, its purpose was not only to expel as many Palestinians as possible but to rapidly seize control of government offices, public institutions and services.

By 1948 and Israel’s so called “War of Independence”, Plan D had become a part of official Israeli policy, which decreed that any village or town refusing to surrender to the new state would be destroyed.

Yosef Weitz did not only advocate "transferring" the Palestinian people so the "Jewish state" would become a "Jewish majority", he also envisioned the "transfer" as a useful tool that could dispossess them from their lands. He stated in a meeting with the Transfer Committee on November 15, 1937:

"...the transfer of [Palestinian] Arab population from the area of the Jewish state does not serve only one aim--to diminish the Arab population. It also serves a second, no less important, aim which is to advocate land presently held and cultivated by the [Palestinian] Arabs and thus to release it for Jewish inhabitants." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 94-95)

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story644.html

Firstly the links you have posted are not actual collaboration. If anything the Stern Gang were trying to sure up the possibility of a Jewish state, if the Germans won the war. In addition, these Jews may have been trying to convince the Germans to deport Jews to Palestine instead of killing them....

Hypothetically.. If I was a Jewish person that could save people's lives by moving them to Palestine, I know that I would do everything I could to save lives, even if that means attempting to make a deal with my arch enemy (Nazi Germany).

Historicaly polar opposite factions have attempted to make deals or play the devils advocate. The stern gang were not active collaborators. If you want collaborators read about the Hanzar Division of the SS and its connections to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.....

Lets talk about history. Would did your beloved Prohpet do to the Jewish tribes that he vanquished in battle?

Like to see you rationalise that one, or the fact that Palestinians were quite happy to live under the Muslim rule of the Ottamans..........

 

[Jenin]

You like delving into 7th century circumstances inorder to justify 21st century crimes. Or maybe you ignoring my points on palestine means you would rather ignore inconvenient truths and keep the picture on 1400 years ago.

My beloved prophet muhammad crushed a jewish tribe at khaybar for betraying a pact of honor they made not to conspire with quraish against muslims. That was the code of times.

My beloved prophet david crushed the philistines inorder to claim palestine.
That was the code of times.

The ottomans did not usurp 3 quarters of palestine, deny millions from their homes and imposed an intricate system of blockades walls tanks and warplanes on the largely unarmed natives of palestine.

 

[Australianlibertarian]

You like delving into 7th century circumstances inorder to justify 21st century crimes. Or maybe you ignoring my points on palestine means you would rather ignore inconvenient truths and keep the picture on 1400 years ago.

My beloved prophet muhammad crushed a jewish tribe at khaybar for betraying a pact of honor they made not to conspire with quraish against muslims. That was the code of times.

My beloved prophet david crushed the philistines inorder to claim palestine.
That was the code of times.

The ottomans did not usurp 3 quarters of palestine, deny millions from their homes and imposed an intricate system of blockades walls tanks and warplanes on the largely unarmed natives of palestine.

Well now you have contradicted yourself. If the word of God is absolute and universal, then there is no such thing as a code of the times. PERIOD. So if the Prophet Mohammed can have vengence then so can the Israelis.

As for the barrier, if your beloved resitance fighters actually loved living more than they loved blowing themselves up and killing Israelis, then maybe Israel would not build barriers. You can't fight an asymmetrical guerilla war and then cry victim when the nation that is under attack responds. The barriers are a direct result of continual suicide bombings. Israel was left with no other choice.

Lastly the UN, unlike the Ottomans, actually designated the Palestinians a soverign state. Which is something that the Ottomans never did. But the surrounding Arab states rejected the plan, and lost. So don't just bash the Zionists, but how about you actually have a go at your Jordanian government, or Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Iraq. Because those countries promised the Palestinian Arabs that they would rid Palestine of the Jews. Yet they failed. Meanwhile they constantly play the victim card.

Once Palestinians actually start attacking the 'illegal' settlements that are meant to be the source of the injustice. Once Palestinians start bombing Israelis tanks, or soldiers, then the resistance fighters might actually have some cuedos. But they don't because they would rather attack civilians in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

 

[Shayah]

So don't just bash the Zionists, but how about you actually have a go at your Jordanian government, or Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Iraq. Because those countries promised the Palestinian Arabs that they would rid Palestine of the Jews. Yet they failed. Meanwhile they constantly play the victim card.

The Arab regimes of the ME whore the Palestinians for propaganda purposes and regard them as expendable cannon fodder. I can't understand why the Pals remain deaf to the fact that they are being played like a Tennessee fiddle.

 

[cherokee]

You like delving into 7th century circumstances inorder to justify 21st century crimes. Or maybe you ignoring my points on palestine means you would rather ignore inconvenient truths and keep the picture on 1400 years ago.

My beloved prophet muhammad crushed a jewish tribe at khaybar for betraying a pact of honor they made not to conspire with quraish against muslims. That was the code of times.

My beloved prophet david crushed the philistines inorder to claim palestine.
That was the code of times.

The ottomans did not usurp 3 quarters of palestine, deny millions from their homes and imposed an intricate system of blockades walls tanks and warplanes on the largely unarmed natives of palestine.

Could you ever be friends with Jewish people, people who treated you well?
Yes or No?

 

[Jenin]

Cherokee,

Yes. A majority of Israeli citizens do not have the extremist views the majority of evangelical americans and israeli government hawks and settlers regarding the confiscation of the west bank. Jews are a people I respect and associate my own heritage with more than any other religeous group of people outside my own. My ex-fiance was jewish, and it was the most beautiful experience of companionship I have ever had with a woman. We did not seperate because of middle-east politics, in fact our views were very much aligned on the issue. Circusmstances surrounding my required return to live in Jordan (family issues) is what seperated us. She is now married to a palestinian from hebron.... anyways.... My conflict is primairily with people who allign themselves with zionist expansion (many of whom are not jews, but american christians in my opinion they are generally also white and 'christian' and not very much educated on the world). I also have a conflict with people who love nothing more than to propagate convoluted images and views of arabs/muslim based on stereotype. So jews are not the issue here, they are not my enemey. Zionist-expansionist hawks and evangelical muslim haters and their likes are my ideological/political enemies.

 

[GarzaUK]

The Arab regimes of the ME whore the Palestinians for propaganda purposes and regard them as expendable cannon fodder. I can't understand why the Pals remain deaf to the fact that they are being played like a Tennessee fiddle.

Correct. Arab states do not actually give a damn about the Palestinians whom they consider as non-Arab. Nothing like a common enemy to keep their subjects happy and unified.

Still not all Palestinians are bad people, and if innocents suffer we shouldn't give up on them.

 

[The face of Jacob]

My conflict is primairily with people who allign themselves with zionist expansion

So you love only Jews who aren't Zionists? You respect only Jews who don't want to live in their homeland? Well, I don't want to let you down, but Zionsim is Judaism and many commandments in the Torah are relating to the living in the land of Israel.

Here you go, another Jew...Er...Zionist... (who will probably be very sad because now you wouldn't be his friend, lol)

From grappling with Talmud in Chicago to fighting terrorists

Eliyahu Joselit never thought he'd be where he is today, especially considering his background: a haredi Jew from the west side of Chicago, where he attended Hebrew day schools and yeshivas and spent most of his time grappling with a daily page of Talmud.

He has come a long way, and today serves as a squad commander in an elite IDF unit under the Netzah Yehuda Battalion, also known as the Nahal Haredi.

Joselit served for more than two years with the battalion as an overseas volunteer in the IDF until he was told by the Interior Ministry that he could not stay in the military on a tourist visa. While it took him four months of deliberations to decide to volunteer in the IDF, he recalled Monday that his decision to make aliya and reenlist in the military was made in five minutes. Full article inside

And by the way, didn't you say that you need to learn for your exams and you don't have too much time to spend these times in these forums? Cause if you will fail in your exams it will break my heart.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Cherokee,

Yes. A majority of Israeli citizens do not have the extremist views the majority of evangelical americans and israeli government hawks and settlers regarding the confiscation of the west bank. Jews are a people I respect and associate my own heritage with more than any other religeous group of people outside my own. My ex-fiance was jewish, and it was the most beautiful experience of companionship I have ever had with a woman. We did not seperate because of middle-east politics, in fact our views were very much aligned on the issue. Circusmstances surrounding my required return to live in Jordan (family issues) is what seperated us. She is now married to a palestinian from hebron.... anyways.... My conflict is primairily with people who allign themselves with zionist expansion (many of whom are not jews, but american christians in my opinion they are generally also white and 'christian' and not very much educated on the world). I also have a conflict with people who love nothing more than to propagate convoluted images and views of arabs/muslim based on stereotype. So jews are not the issue here, they are not my enemey. Zionist-expansionist hawks and evangelical muslim haters and their likes are my ideological/political enemies.

On that note, what is your opinion of muslim extremists who call for the death of Jews?

 

[Jenin]

Jacob,

My promised reply to the concerted efforts provided by you and muslim-bashers in this forum was posted early in the thread entitled 'my case'. Please take your time to read my entire argument and visit the links. I was supposed to do it after exams, and it isnt perfect...However in between studying I managed to type something up and put together some points that i felt were over-looked, unknown, or even denied. I wanted to provide the palestinian PoV in this majority pro zionist hawkish enviornment.

Thank you for asking about my exams and worrying about me....I am doing well... I have two exams left to take on the 23. I am doing my part inorder to one day return and live in my un-occupied part of the holy land, where I can work, start a business and visit my beloved jerusalem and pray in the Al-aqsa free of barricades and checkpoints and humiliation from a racist prick younger than me weilding an m-16.

Again, I have a problem with the likes of yourself -- expansionist zionists... who are not satisfied with 28% of historical palestine and want to usurp the rest of the west bank by military occupation and intimidation. I am against the likes of your Knesset member Liberman, who wants to see the ethnic cleansing of palestine of all arab natives. I have a problem with the likes of you who deny me and my ancestors the sweat and blood and history of thousands of years of inhabitance and religeous reverance to jerusalem.


CaptainCourtesy,

It is interesting that you enjoy official British government quotes and Israeli government quotes to refute historical evidence such as the expulsion of Deir yassin. I refer you to my post 'my case' in response. Watch the video links and also visit the web links i provided sourcing my documentation on the 'transfer' of palestinian natives in 1948. Thanks for whatever effort you put into checking my sources and documentation on these very very important issues.

Also, as Jacob likes to point out... Zionists claim a parallel with judaism (jewish zionists anyways). The natives of palestine (jewish muslim and christian) were considered arab palestinians... with the advent of european zionism and the creation of Israel, the arab natives (suddenly becoming a minority) began referring to the zionists as they referred to themselves as jews. So in palestine, to distinguish between a modern palestinian or a jew (since palestinian jews pre israel became israeli citizens post 48), a palestinian (christian or muslim) is called an arab, and a zionist israeli is referred to as a jew. So when you see people in palestestine talking about jews, they primairily mean israelis/zionists... a jewish american for example, is considered an american of jewish faith, a european the same, ect....
Getting to your question.... I do not agree with the murder of any innocent person, whether it be an israeli or a palestinian or an iraqi or an american or an african or whatever.

I hope you can check out this website:

If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine

 

[Tashah]

I hope you can check out this website:

If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine

As many people here at Debate Politics have already pointed out numerous times, the website above is not an unbiased or disinterested party. In reality it is an extremely biased presentation designed to kinder sympathy for the Hamas/Hizb'Allah agenda and demonize Israel.

Promoting such tawdry websites is indicative of a distinct lack of unbiased topical research and analysis.

 

[Jenin]

How is it biased?

 

[Jenin]

note on my earlier post..it is 78% * not 28%*

 

[cherokee]

Cherokee,

Yes. A majority of Israeli citizens do not have the extremist views the majority of evangelical americans and israeli government hawks and settlers regarding the confiscation of the west bank. Jews are a people I respect and associate my own heritage with more than any other religeous group of people outside my own. My ex-fiance was jewish, and it was the most beautiful experience of companionship I have ever had with a woman. We did not seperate because of middle-east politics, in fact our views were very much aligned on the issue. Circusmstances surrounding my required return to live in Jordan (family issues) is what seperated us. She is now married to a palestinian from hebron.... anyways.... My conflict is primairily with people who allign themselves with zionist expansion (many of whom are not jews, but american christians in my opinion they are generally also white and 'christian' and not very much educated on the world). I also have a conflict with people who love nothing more than to propagate convoluted images and views of arabs/muslim based on stereotype. So jews are not the issue here, they are not my enemey. Zionist-expansionist hawks and evangelical muslim haters and their likes are my ideological/political enemies.

So you’re saying Muslims can be friends with Christians, Jewish and all manners of peaceful people? We could work everything out, even put an end to the bloodshed?

 

[Jenin]

Yes cherokee. It worries me that you seemed convinced this is some sort of a never ending clash of civilization. Thats what I get from watching FOX news.

 

[cherokee]

Yes cherokee. It worries me that you seemed convinced this is some sort of a never ending clash of civilization. Thats what I get from watching FOX news.

Yes I do see a never ending clash when the Quran states....

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.


And for me a total Unbeliever

005.080
YUSUFALI: Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.
PICKTHAL: Thou seest many of them making friends with those who disbelieve. Surely ill for them is that which they themselves send on before them: that Allah will be wroth with them and in the doom they will abide.
SHAKIR: You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.

And just so you know I never watch Fox News.

 

[Jenin]

Yes cherokee,

Just like many natives warned of befriending the white man.
Just like the bible says about non christians
Just like the Torah says about gentiles.

Hey did you read the interpretation, when it was revealed to the prophet and under what circumstances? did you look for the parts that talk about no compulsion in religeon, that manking should live in harmony ect?

I wouldnt want to befriend 'christians' of the likes of george bush or hitler.
I wouldnt want to befriend 'jews' of the likes of sharon or begin or leiberman
i wouldnt want to befriend 'muslims' of the likes of osama or muqtada or abu musab

 

[Volker]

As many people here at Debate Politics have already pointed out numerous times, the website above is not an unbiased or disinterested party. In reality it is an extremely biased presentation designed to kinder sympathy for the Hamas/Hizb'Allah agenda and demonize Israel.

Promoting such tawdry websites is indicative of a distinct lack of unbiased topical research and analysis.

This web site presents facts. We got some whining and complaining here from people who can not deal with facts, but no one here could refute these facts so far.