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A fair tax would be to require capital gains be paid each year just like income tax and at the same rate.

Wry Catcher

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I would suggest if the government was based on that tax schedule, than we would be able to do that. The excuse that the government NEEDS more and more money gets old
What you seem to be saying is Social Security and Health Insurance (Medicare, Medicaid, ACA, CHIP) are not worthy, but more tax cuts will somehow allow States and local government to fill pot holes and repair or replace the bridges, roads, tunnel, dams, seaports and airports.
 

jaeger19

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divide up the spending by the number of voters
Okay.. well.. lets see.. defense budget ALONE is 721.5 Billion
Divided by the number of voters..
Equals 4654.8

Hmmm so every voter is to pay 4654.80 dollars in income tax...even the 92 year old nursing home patient on medicaid?

Hmmm.. and THATS just for the defense budget...

What happens when that 92 year old patient on medicaid can;t afford it?

not to mention all the other costs for the government.. like keeping up roads, space programs, vaccinations.. etc?

Please explain how your plan works.
 

AARguy

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Okay.. well.. lets see.. defense budget ALONE is 721.5 Billion
Divided by the number of voters..
Equals 4654.8

Hmmm so every voter is to pay 4654.80 dollars in income tax...even the 92 year old nursing home patient on medicaid?

Hmmm.. and THATS just for the defense budget...

What happens when that 92 year old patient on medicaid can;t afford it?

not to mention all the other costs for the government.. like keeping up roads, space programs, vaccinations.. etc?

Please explain how your plan works.
The federal government gets money from sources other than income taxes.... it sells bonds... it borrows... it gets fees for licensing rights on items developed on the government dime... tariffs... excise taxes... rents from folks using federal lands... parks charge admissions... sale of excess equipment and buildings...seizures... fines... penalties... lots more.
 

jaeger19

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The federal government gets money from sources other than income taxes.... it sells bonds... it borrows... it gets fees for licensing rights on items developed on the government dime... tariffs... excise taxes... rents from folks using federal lands... parks charge admissions... sale of excess equipment and buildings...seizures... fines... penalties... lots more.
Thats nice. But completely irrelevant to the conversation.
 

AARguy

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Thats nice. But completely irrelevant to the conversation.
You said that tax rates should be set by dividing expenditures by the number of voters. My statement shows that money comes from other sources than voters so its not that simple.
 

jaeger19

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You said that tax rates should be set by dividing expenditures by the number of voters. My statement shows that money comes from other sources than voters so its not that simple.
Nope I didn't say that at all. Turtledude proposed it and I pointed out that with just the defense budget that its not that simple.
 

craig

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Nope I didn't say that at all. Turtledude proposed it and I pointed out that with just the defense budget that its not that simple.
People benefit from government in direct proportion to the wealth they own. It is obvious when you consider what it provides. It should be paid for in the same way.
 

jaeger19

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People benefit from government in direct proportion to the wealth they own. It is obvious when you consider what it provides. It should be paid for in the same way.
Pretty much yes. However.. it should not be paid based on "wealth".. since thats a nebulous term and not defined. It should be paid on income.. which is why we have an income tax.
 

craig

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Pretty much yes. However.. it should not be paid based on "wealth".. since thats a nebulous term and not defined. It should be paid on income.. which is why we have an income tax.
The top 1% of the wealthy own 40% of all wealth but the pay little income tax as has been shown with recent data releases. The top 1% of the wealthy should be paying for 40% of government.
 

jaeger19

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The top 1% of the wealthy own 40% of all wealth but the pay little income tax as has been shown with recent data releases. The top 1% of the wealthy should be paying for 40% of government.
That makes no sense and frankly would disrupt the economy and business in catastrophic way.

So.. I am one of those owning 40% of the "wealth"... but what is that wealth? Its not just income..its things like property, stocks, bonds, farms etc.

Those things go up and down in "value" depending on market. So you could have me pay tax for 10 years on increasing property value.... then suddenly.. what happens when the bottom falls out of the market and now its worth less than what I paid for it? What a mess.
 

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The top 1% of the wealthy own 40% of all wealth but the pay little income tax as has been shown with recent data releases. The top 1% of the wealthy should be paying for 40% of government.
the top one percent pay almost 40% of the federal income tax and all the death tax. why should we pay for 40% of the government? wealth ownership /= use of government services
 

bave

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The top 1% of the wealthy own 40% of all wealth but the pay little income tax as has been shown with recent data releases. The top 1% of the wealthy should be paying for 40% of government.

Jesus, you butchered the facts in this little gem.

The top 1% own 30% of the wealth, they draw 16% of the income, and pay ~40% of the taxes.
 

craig

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Jesus, you butchered the facts in this little gem.

The top 1% own 30% of the wealth, they draw 16% of the income, and pay ~40% of the taxes.
Citations please and don't confuse top income earners with wealth owners.
 

jaeger19

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the top one percent pay almost 40% of the federal income tax and all the death tax. why should we pay for 40% of the government? wealth ownership /= use of government services
Actual yes wealth ownership does equal use of government services.
 

TurtleDude

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Actual yes wealth ownership does equal use of government services.
I'd love to see you prove that.. so the people who have NO wealth aren't using any government services. Run with that-its winning argument!
 

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I'd love to see you prove that.. so the people who have NO wealth aren't using any government services. Run with that-its winning argument!
Nope. It's just that those with wealth need so much more.
Own a business? You depend on roads way more for transportation of products.and supplies..mail..government regulation and enforcement to prevent theft of intellectual property and unfair competition..and the list goes on.
 

craig

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I'd love to see you prove that.. so the people who have NO wealth aren't using any government services. Run with that-its winning argument!
Government spends the minimum on social services to keep revolution from breaking out and endangering the safe haven for wealth.
 

TurtleDude

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Government spends the minimum on social services to keep revolution from breaking out and endangering the safe haven for wealth.
what do you think would happen if the poor revolted?
 

TurtleDude

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Nope. It's just that those with wealth need so much more.
Own a business? You depend on roads way more for transportation of products.and supplies..mail..government regulation and enforcement to prevent theft of intellectual property and unfair competition..and the list goes on.
As I noted, you cannot prove your claim and it doesn't even pass the smell test. the poor use tons of governmental services-police especially. SO they use more of government services than their share of the wealth
 

craig

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what do you think would happen if the poor revolted?
Usually the first thing that happens is that wealth is nationalized. Cuba is a good example of that. The very wealth lost their wealth and fled.
 

TurtleDude

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Usually the first thing that happens is that wealth is nationalized. Cuba is a good example of that. The very wealth lost their wealth and fled.
won't happen here. both parties are run by the rich. any politician trying that would be gone, rather quickly
 

craig

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won't happen here. both parties are run by the rich. any politician trying that would be gone, rather quickly
Historically there are many examples that when wealth becomes extremely concentrated social disruption happens. A police state or anarchy is always the result.
 

TurtleDude

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Historically there are many examples that when wealth becomes extremely concentrated social disruption happens. A police state or anarchy is always the result.
so the poor won't revolt? that you want punitive taxes on the most productive tax payers to keep the hoi polloi placated.
 
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