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a economic solution

joe246

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our view of economics in this country is on money but economics are about resorces money is simply a way to control them. i have a solution we need to build a super computer to control our resources not greedy businessmen or evil communists. computers are rational and don't have any interests of their own
 

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Villiage Idiot
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That could be done. The location of a Mexican government created resort area was picked by a computer. We now know that resort as Cancun.

But computers only output information based on formulas that are created by people. So the issue would be with what type of formula would be programed into the computer. Would the formula be a capitalistic formula that distributes resources according to what one produces, or a communistic formula that attemps to distribute resouces equally regardless of what individuals make the effort to produce? Leaving the distribution of resources up to a computer would be exactly like leaving the distribution of resources up the people who are already in charge.

I wonder if the people who designed the computer program that picked Cancun had owned real estate in a different part of Mexico instead of Cancun, would the computer happened to have picked that location instead?
 

joe246

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That could be done. The location of a Mexican government created resort area was picked by a computer. We now know that resort as Cancun.

But computers only output information based on formulas that are created by people. So the issue would be with what type of formula would be programed into the computer. Would the formula be a capitalistic formula that distributes resources according to what one produces, or a communistic formula that attemps to distribute resouces equally regardless of what individuals make the effort to produce? Leaving the distribution of resources up to a computer would be exactly like leaving the distribution of resources up the people who are already in charge.

I wonder if the people who designed the computer program that picked Cancun had owned real estate in a different part of Mexico instead of Cancun, would the computer happened to have picked that location instead?
perhaps currently we have to control our computers but in the near future we could build a completey automenous computer who could decide which economic formula is the best
 

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Yea, and maybe that computer system could decide who is not being productive in our society and order their termination. And maybe the computer could decide that television is a waste of time and will elemenate the production of television. And maybe the computer will decide that the best purpose for you or me is to dig ditches. And maybe the computer decides what we should eat, and tells us what we like, and tell us when to do it. I can see it now, I wake up and get my daily instructions from the computer, it has scheduled my day: 6:37 wake up, 6:45 have sex, 6:51 take shower, 7:15 go to work, midnite stop working and return home and go to bed immediately.

I don't know that any of us want to place our lifestyles or lives in the trust of a computer.
 

joe246

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Yea, and maybe that computer system could decide who is not being productive in our society and order their termination. And maybe the computer could decide that television is a waste of time and will elemenate the production of television. And maybe the computer will decide that the best purpose for you or me is to dig ditches. And maybe the computer decides what we should eat, and tells us what we like, and tell us when to do it. I can see it now, I wake up and get my daily instructions from the computer, it has scheduled my day: 6:37 wake up, 6:45 have sex, 6:51 take shower, 7:15 go to work, midnite stop working and return home and go to bed immediately.

I don't know that any of us want to place our lifestyles or lives in the trust of a computer.
you ever heard of a frankenstein complex?
 

Civil1z@tion

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First, this idea is impractical as we don't have an economic system that is sufficiently capable of predicting the results of economic actions to make this work. You have to have the equations and programs ready to put into the computer in order for it to calculate anything, it can't come up with these on its own. Economics is not sufficiently advanced to have these equations or make these predictions and it already uses computer models. A bigger computer will change nothing.

Second, this is about freedom. The computer will be telling us what to buy, how to use our property, and indeed how to live our lives to run this economy. That's no different than the government doing this. An efficient command economy is still a command economy no matter who is running it. And for me personally, it doesn't matter if the despot is benevolent. I don't give a damn whether the person trying to control my entire life is a saint or a jack ass I simply want the freedom to live my own life. This computer would not do that because otherwise it could not do its job in controlling the economy.
 

joe246

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First, this idea is impractical as we don't have an economic system that is sufficiently capable of predicting the results of economic actions to make this work. You have to have the equations and programs ready to put into the computer in order for it to calculate anything, it can't come up with these on its own. Economics is not sufficiently advanced to have these equations or make these predictions and it already uses computer models. A bigger computer will change nothing.

Second, this is about freedom. The computer will be telling us what to buy, how to use our property, and indeed how to live our lives to run this economy. That's no different than the government doing this. An efficient command economy is still a command economy no matter who is running it. And for me personally, it doesn't matter if the despot is benevolent. I don't give a damn whether the person trying to control my entire life is a saint or a jack ass I simply want the freedom to live my own life. This computer would not do that because otherwise it could not do its job in controlling the economy.
actually it can come up with the program how? by running virtual reality simulations. the computer will run thousands of simulations with millons of variables and he will constantly do this in real time seeing what his actions produce. people will be allowed to place prioritys on goods they want such as new books or a new tv. the computer will input this into his simulations and figure out how to run the economy or you could say he learned how to run the economy. for a example of how advanced computer simulations can go look up dwarf fortress.
 

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Villiage Idiot
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actually it can come up with the program how? by running virtual reality simulations. the computer will run thousands of simulations with millons of variables and he will constantly do this in real time seeing what his actions produce. people will be allowed to place prioritys on goods they want such as new books or a new tv. the computer will input this into his simulations and figure out how to run the economy or you could say he learned how to run the economy. for a example of how advanced computer simulations can go look up dwarf fortress.
I really don't know if virtual reality simulations can take into account all of the quirky things about being human. Like basic economics tells us that we consume more if the economy is good, yet some things, like beans, we may actually consume less of when the economy is good because people switch to more expensive food sources. Or that some brands will actually sell more products if they raise the price (conspicuous consumption theory). And I really don't know if a simulation can predict what the trendy toy for Christmas will be, or the value of stupid stuff like pet rocks and Chia pets and sea monkies.

When there is a hurricane coming in, it is always interesting to watch the weather report when they show the results of a dozen different simulation programs resulting in a dozen different paths, then they draw a median path based on those projections. Most of the time, with a dozen different projections, one of them turns out to be correct, but a different one each time. This leads me to believe that none of the simulations have any weather forcasting value at all.
 

joe246

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Please stop, this is embarassing to everyone involved.

Economic calculation problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
all of the problems in the economic calculation problem can be solved through the simulations. also the article points out that the lack of communication will be disastrous but since the computer is only talking to itself it has all the information it needs. the problem of centralization is the lack of knowledge but a computer can use the simulations and learn how to use the economy the way a chess grandmaster can use his pieces. after all economics and chess are separated only by the amount of numbers each use.
 

nkgupta80

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all of the problems in the economic calculation problem can be solved through the simulations. also the article points out that the lack of communication will be disastrous but since the computer is only talking to itself it has all the information it needs. the problem of centralization is the lack of knowledge but a computer can use the simulations and learn how to use the economy the way a chess grandmaster can use his pieces. after all economics and chess are separated only by the amount of numbers each use.

You're drastically understating the calculation problem. The amount of information necessary is gigantic, and understanding how to process and encode that information is unfathomable. Furthermore, solving these problems would be extremely slow even given current algorithms. By the time we solve an optimization problem at a particular state in time, the initial conditions would have changed. And how will the computer adjust to new streams of information?
 

Civil1z@tion

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all of the problems in the economic calculation problem can be solved through the simulations. also the article points out that the lack of communication will be disastrous but since the computer is only talking to itself it has all the information it needs. the problem of centralization is the lack of knowledge but a computer can use the simulations and learn how to use the economy the way a chess grandmaster can use his pieces. after all economics and chess are separated only by the amount of numbers each use.
It seems like you have the Hollywood view of computers, i.e. that computers are magic and can do anything. When you can design a program that even comes close to what you're talking about, then we can talk (and probably still dismiss the idea on the grounds of individual freedom).
 

masonkiller

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our view of economics in this country is on money but economics are about resorces money is simply a way to control them. i have a solution we need to build a super computer to control our resources not greedy businessmen or evil communists. computers are rational and don't have any interests of their own
First off, money isn't a way to control resources it is a resource. Well it is when you're money is real and not just sheets of useless paper.

Second off, 300 million individuals all freely interacting and exchanging goods each benefitting from their respective self-interests is a supercomputer in a way. It's my favorite supercomputer lol.
 
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