A different way of looking at the COVID-19 numbers

[Bullseye]

Maybe

"I fully defend your right to run towards the cliff with your eyes shut, but I don't want to hear you whining all the way down to the bottom."
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would have been a better analogy.

You make less and less sense with every post.

 

[Moderate Right]

And your reason for doing that (other than "Well, because they're Commies and evrewunknoz that the Commies always lie all the time.") is - what?

That being said, do you "dispute" the relative standings between Canada and the US?

How about the relative standings between any of the areas OTHER than "China", "Russia", and "World" vis-a-vis the US?



I see, so all of the other areas (in addition to "China", "Russia", and "World") are all lying about the effect that COVID-19 is having on them - right?



True, but comparing the US to all of the major economic players on the world scene hardly counts as "cherry picking" - does it?

PS - When I generate a new set of comparisons, the question I ask myself is "What would the result be if I compared 'A' to 'B'?". The question I do NOT ask myself is "What convoluted logic, data exclusion, and statistical manipulation do I have to go through in order to prove 'X'?".

PPS - If you have some other set of calculations that shows how the US is doing in comparison with other countries of similar economic clout, I'd be more than pleased to see them.

PPPS - I suggest that you do NOT use "relative per capita healthcare expenditures" in order to prove that the US is doing better than any other country in the world. Can you guess why?

I mostly dispute the world figures, which also include China and Russia. However, I do think it is rather hilarious that Canadians criticized US/Trump immigration policy on our southern borders and now they are playing tough guy with their southern border, doing whatever they can to keep out those US illegals who are personna non grata. This virus thing has turned lefties into righties and righties into lefties.

 

[snakestretcher]

But it's one of the left's prime articles of faith. Single payer may be the one system that is worse than ACA.

Why? When it works well in EVERY developed nation which has adopted it, and has done so for decades, why is it such an apparently insurmountable problem for America? Every country in the top 20 rated by the WHO for overall quality of healthcare enjoys single-payer insurance or universal healthcare with France topping the list. America, meanwhile, languishes in an embarrassing 37th place between Slovenia and Costa Rica.

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems, by Rank

How Does Healthcare in Europe Work?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I mostly dispute the world figures, which also include China and Russia. However, I do think it is rather hilarious that Canadians criticized US/Trump immigration policy on our southern borders and now they are playing tough guy with their southern border, doing whatever they can to keep out those US illegals who are personna non grata. This virus thing has turned lefties into righties and righties into lefties.

Thank you for your unskillful attempt to change "COVID-19" into "illegal immigration".

The Canadian government's refusal to agree to admit "illegals" is footed on the law that the US government insisted be enacted whereby NEITHER the US nor Canada would admit "illegals" when they attempted to enter one country from the other.

You probably aren't aware of it, but the Canadian courts are now having serious doubts about the "constitutionality" of that law (due to the change in the way that the US government treats refugee claimants) and it may well be tossed out.
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We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion.

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[NOTE - Due to the sudden change in the UK's rating, it should be viewed with a bit of skepticism for a day or so.]

 

[Moderate Right]

Thank you for your unskillful attempt to change "COVID-19" into "illegal immigration".

The Canadian government's refusal to agree to admit "illegals" is footed on the law that the US government insisted be enacted whereby NEITHER the US nor Canada would admit "illegals" when they attempted to enter one country from the other.

You probably aren't aware of it, but the Canadian courts are now having serious doubts about the "constitutionality" of that law (due to the change in the way that the US government treats refugee claimants) and it may well be tossed out.
​

We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion.

View attachment 67291324
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[NOTE - Due to the sudden change in the UK's rating, it should be viewed with a bit of skepticism for a day or so.]

Ummmm, you already posted that graph. It hasn't changed. Why do I need to see it again? I already claimed that I did not believe the world numbers to be accurate because they include both Russia and China, and probably several others not even listed separately on your graph. When you have wrong statistics you can't really prove anything with statistics that are not accurate. The only thing we know for sure is that this virus has devastated the entire world with larger population countries doing worse than small countries and countries that are islands or have fewer borders tend to do better than those with several borders.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Ummmm, you already posted that graph.

Nope, I posted one yesterday that was based on the data available yesterday.

It hasn't changed.

Actually, if you know the difference between 85.11% and 96.02% you will know that the table HAS changed.

Why do I need to see it again?

So that you can deal with current data?

I already claimed that I did not believe the world numbers to be accurate because they include both Russia and China, and probably several others not even listed separately on your graph. When you have wrong statistics you can't really prove anything with statistics that are not accurate. The only thing we know for sure is that this virus has devastated the entire world with larger population countries doing worse than small countries and countries that are islands or have fewer borders tend to do better than those with several borders.

Yes I know you did.

That being said, do you "dispute" the relative standings between Canada and the US?

How about the relative standings between any of the areas OTHER than "China", "Russia", and "World" vis-a-vis the US?

Or is it your position that a single invalid (because you say that it is invalid without offering any evidence to substantiate that statement) entry means that ALL of the entries are totally false and parts of the international conspiracy to make Mr. Trump look bad so that the 2016 elections can be overturned?

 

[Moderate Right]

Nope, I posted one yesterday that was based on the data available yesterday.



Actually, if you know the difference between 85.11% and 96.02% you will know that the table HAS changed.



So that you can deal with current data?



Yes I know you did.

That being said, do you "dispute" the relative standings between Canada and the US?

How about the relative standings between any of the areas OTHER than "China", "Russia", and "World" vis-a-vis the US?

Or is it your position that a single invalid (because you say that it is invalid without offering any evidence to substantiate that statement) entry means that ALL of the entries are totally false and parts of the international conspiracy to make Mr. Trump look bad so that the 2016 elections can be overturned?

I dispute the world numbers and the China and Russia numbers. And, of course the other numbers are stats with many variables. It's difficult to tell things when you consider all of the variables involved, up to and including the types of borders particular countries have.

 

[Bullseye]

Why? When it works well in EVERY developed nation which has adopted it, and has done so for decades, why is it such an apparently insurmountable problem for America? Every country in the top 20 rated by the WHO for overall quality of healthcare enjoys single-payer insurance or universal healthcare with France topping the list. America, meanwhile, languishes in an embarrassing 37th place between Slovenia and Costa Rica.

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems, by Rank

How Does Healthcare in Europe Work?

This isn't a thread about single payer or ACA. IF you want to discuss that start a thread in the appropriate sub-forum.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I dispute the world numbers and the China and Russia numbers. And, of course the other numbers are stats with many variables. It's difficult to tell things when you consider all of the variables involved, up to and including the types of borders particular countries have.

I am fully aware that you "dispute" any data set that doesn't NOT **P*R*O*V*E** that

The US (under the inspired genius of Mr. Trump) is NOT doing better than every other country in the world (because the United States of America has the world's best healthcare system [and also because every American is taking exactly the right steps to ensure that the spread of COVID-19 is kept to its absolute minimum]).
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PS - Today's interim numbers support yesterday's calculations that put the UK as doing more than 5% better than the US, but all of the data is not in yet so that may well change.

 

[Mugahigh]

But wheres the age differences, compare 20 years olds to 90 years olds, thats where the real difference is.

 

[snakestretcher]

This isn't a thread about single payer or ACA. IF you want to discuss that start a thread in the appropriate sub-forum.

Don't tell me what to do when you are replying to others about the same thing. What's the matter, did I upset you?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

But wheres the age differences, compare 20 years olds to 90 years olds, thats where the real difference is.

If you can find me countries where 100% of the populations consists of

1. "rich" 20 year-olds;
   *
2. "poor" 20 year-olds;
   *
3. "rich" 90 year-olds;
   *
   and;
   *
4. "poor" 90 year-olds;

so that they can be compared with each other, I'd be very grateful.

Until such time as you can do that, then

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will simply have to do when comparing the effectiveness according to ability to pay - won't it?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

This isn't a thread about single payer or ACA. IF you want to discuss that start a thread in the appropriate sub-forum.

Might I remind you that it was YOU who first raised BOTH the ACA and "single payer" in this thread.

Do you know the technical term for claiming that someone else did what, in fact, you, yourself, had done is?

 

[Bullseye]

Might I remind you that it was YOU who first raised BOTH the ACA and "single payer" in this thread.

Do you know the technical term for claiming that someone else did what, in fact, you, yourself, had done is?

And was that mention me saying "Hey, let's go off topic and rehash all the arguments we've had for the last ten years about ACA"?

 

[Jonsa]

The ACA is a PART of the US healthcare system - it is NOT ALL of the US healthcare system.

The MAJORITY of the US healthcare system is NOT "single payer".

is it willful ignorance or just bumpersticker Dunning Kruger?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

And was that mention me saying "Hey, let's go off topic and rehash all the arguments we've had for the last ten years about ACA"?

No, it was

Isn't our medical system Obamacare?

But "Nice Try" though.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

is it willful ignorance or just bumpersticker Dunning Kruger?

"I'll take 'Wilful Ignorance' for 500, Alex."

And the updated table is

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[Bullseye]

No, it was

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But "Nice Try" though.

And you contain that question is an open invitation to rehash ten years of Obamacare debate rather than getting back to thread topic?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

And you contain that question is an open invitation to rehash ten years of Obamacare debate rather than getting back to thread topic?

No I do not "contain (sic) that question" as anything other than you being the first to mention the ACA - which you want to "blame" someone else for.

 

[Bullseye]

No I do not "contain (sic) that question" as anything other than you being the first to mention the ACA - which you want to "blame" someone else for.

Sorry, no. I did not Contend I wasn't the first to ask a question that mentioned Obamacare which in the context of discussing HC cost comparisons on cover case is pertinent. What I said was we didn't want to go off in the weeds rehashing OC rather than discussing YOUR mysterious table.

 

[Noodlegawd]

What do financial resources or "leadership resources" have to do with anything?

I thought the US has the worst healthcare system in the universe.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Sorry, no. I did not Contend I wasn't the first to ask a question that mentioned Obamacare which in the context of discussing HC cost comparisons on cover case is pertinent. What I said was we didn't want to go off in the weeds rehashing OC rather than discussing YOUR mysterious table.

Then possibly that is what you should have said.

I'm sorry that you don't understand the complexity of how "A" (who has more money available than "B" does) should be more able to fund "X" than "B" is.

That being said, I'm absolutely positive that you won't be able to understand the complexity of how "A" (who spends more money on "X" than "B" does) is getting a lower return on their investment when they get less "X" than "B" does (see the seventh and eighth columns which I have just added to my "mysterious" table).

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By the way, whether or not the ACA exists is totally irrelevant to both "PPP GDP per capita" and "Healthcare Expenditures per capita".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

What do financial resources or "leadership resources" have to do with anything?

I thought the US has the worst healthcare system in the universe.

I presume that your entire post was sarcasm.

The answer to the first question are obvious.

The second sentence is simply a large crock of well aged male bovine excrement since not one of

"Countries With the Most Well-Developed Public Health Care Systems" (from US News & World Report)

"MEASURING OVERALL HEALTH SYSTEM PERFORMANCE FOR 191 COUNTRIES"

"Best Healthcare In The World 2020" (from World Population Report)
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ranks the US as being lower than 40th best in the world (and there are over 190 healthcare systems in the world).

 

[Noodlegawd]

I presume that your entire post was sarcasm.

The answer to the first question are obvious.

Yes, indeed. China has by far the best "score" on your chart, and the most authoritarian government. So if that's what you mean by "leadership," it's obvious that it's relevant, but you can have it.

As for financial resources, it's not obvious at all how that would equate with the willingness of the population to remain on lock down and wear masks voluntarily. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It might be a little interesting if you demonstrated any correlation whatsoever between the availability of financial resources and death rates from the Covid pandemic.

The second sentence is simply a large crock of well aged male bovine excrement since not one of

"Countries With the Most Well-Developed Public Health Care Systems" (from US News & World Report)

"MEASURING OVERALL HEALTH SYSTEM PERFORMANCE FOR 191 COUNTRIES"

"Best Healthcare In The World 2020" (from World Population Report)
​

ranks the US as being lower than 40th best in the world (and there are over 190 healthcare systems in the world).

Other than Russia and China, the US is the worst on your list, and if you think we can count on Russia to accurately report its numbers, you may need medical attention yourself.

 

[Grand Mal]

What do financial resources or "leadership resources" have to do with anything?

I thought the US has the worst healthcare system in the universe.

You thought wrong then.