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A Democratic Plan for Victory

jfuh

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If the democrats want to win the only way to do so is to actually be a party that is indeed better then the repubs. Not just the opposite side of the same coin. Stay true to civil rights, personal liberty, free speech, protection of the environment and sticking up for the average Joe. Not just the idiot party that argues against the other idiot party for the sake of argument alone.
 

alphamale

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What a laugh! :mrgreen: It's a suicide pact! I sure hope the dems follow it! It's based on attacking Bush, which is what the dems have done for six years, and americans are tired of it! The suggestion of Barack Obama is a real howler - when you look at his record, you'll see that he is nothing more than a big government liberal - the stuff that has been the dem mainstay since roosevelt's time. Also suicidal is the idea of stoking up the lunatic fringe of the democrat party - maybe they can get Howie Deane to give another primal scream at the convention! :2razz:
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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I'm not so hung up on what will happen in this midterm election. These elections do not & will not set a national precedent for 2008 (no matter which sides ends up with control of congress/senate or house). This coming election will be based solely on what individuals in their respective districts want/need/etc. There will be no mandate - the mandate was in '04 & the next one will be in '08 (speaking nationally of course). Certainly these midterm elections can & likely will play some sort of role in national politics/policy/etc. But, primarily conservative areas will elect conservatives - liberal areas will elect a liberal - & moderate/centrist/ or "swing" areas will elect based on what's happening in their area (are they satisfied with their current reps? do they seek change? jobs...etc. - every area will have different issues closest to them & this election will reflect that).

ooooo...if the democrats gain control it's because America is tired of the republicans evil ways - if the republicans retain control it's because they cheated...blah blah blah...

let the candidates spill out their plans/views/ideas & we'll elect whose plans/views/ideas we like or who we actually believe: then pray to God that they at least attempt to live up to their campaign promises. And, of course, one side will praise their every move while the other side will rant & rave & cry foul. Don't you just love politics?
 

kmhowe72

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I have a prediction, I bet the demorcrates will win hands down.
 
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hipsterdufus

edesiderius said:
Whatever Bob Shrum advises, the Dems should do the opposite.

Seriously, Howard Dean sent out an e-mail giving details for a 50 state, grass roots canvas on April 29th. That kind of bottoms up neighbor to neighbor strategy is exactly what the party needs to focus on. It's also encouraging that Dem Senators are out fundraising Rep Senators for the 06 elections. That's amazing news for Dems. Usually we face 3-1 or 4-1 money odds with the big business' corporate oligarchy contributions to the GOP.

 
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hipsterdufus

alphamale said:
What a laugh! :mrgreen: It's a suicide pact! I sure hope the dems follow it! It's based on attacking Bush, which is what the dems have done for six years, and americans are tired of it! The suggestion of Barack Obama is a real howler - when you look at his record, you'll see that he is nothing more than a big government liberal - the stuff that has been the dem mainstay since roosevelt's time. Also suicidal is the idea of stoking up the lunatic fringe of the democrat party - maybe they can get Howie Deane to give another primal scream at the convention! :2razz:
If you're against the plan, I know it must be a good one. ;)

yeaaaaaaarrrrrrrgh!
 

Stinger

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hipsterdufus said:
Whatever Bob Shrum advises, the Dems should do the opposite.

Seriously, Howard Dean sent out an e-mail giving details for a 50 state, grass roots canvas on April 29th. That kind of bottoms up neighbor to neighbor strategy is exactly what the party needs to focus on. It's also encouraging that Dem Senators are out fundraising Rep Senators for the 06 elections. That's amazing news for Dems. Usually we face 3-1 or 4-1 money odds with the big business' corporate oligarchy contributions to the GOP.
Same tired old rhetoric and no clue as to what they would do to reach the goals they state.

"Honest Leadership & Open Government" Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

And after the Clintons the Dems think they have a leg to stand on on this issue? But what does it mean they will do?

"Real Security"

ROFL after laughing and dancing when they thought they had defeated the Patriot Act. Exactly what is this "Truth" he talks about in his plea?

"Energy Independence"

And the plan is what? Not one Democrat has put forth any plan as far as energy. Clinton/Gore had 8 years to do something and did nothing.

"Economic Prosperity & Education Excellence"

And what plan is this? Let me guess more wealth transfer programs and more money for the teachers unions. Yeah that will fly. What Democrat has proposed a specific education plant? And do you still fall for the phoney line "WE will create jobs", the Democrat party has not created a single private sector job in it's entire existence.

"A Healthcare System That Works for Everyone"

A Nationalize health care system, don't bet on the public supporting that one. But again which Democrat has proposed how to do it, where is the plan?

"Retirement Security"

The Democrats have admitted they have no Social Security plan. So what is this suppose to mean? My retirement will be secure when they let me keep my money and invest it for my retirement.

It's easy to talk in such rhetorical terms, but where and what is thier hard plan for each of the above and who is talking about it? NOT what YOU want them to do or what you think they will do, what they have said they will do.
 

My_name_is_not_Larry

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There isn't much difference between this plan and the plan the democrats had in '02 and '4. I doubt its going to help much.
 

cnredd

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My_name_is_not_Larry said:
There isn't much difference between this plan and the plan the democrats had in '02 and '4. I doubt its going to help much.
Thanks Fred...:2wave:
 
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hipsterdufus

My_name_is_not_Larry said:
There isn't much difference between this plan and the plan the democrats had in '02 and '4. I doubt its going to help much.
These are the main issues of the Dems. Hopefully the ideas can be fleshed out and debated on TV shows other than Jon Stewart and Bill Maher, but I'm not holding my breath. Luckily the netroots movement is giving us a voice were there wasn't one the past 6 years.

We were right in 02 and 04 too, but Bubble Boy fooled/scared/cheated the country into voting for him and the neo-cons again. The country voted security over domestic issues. Now after seeing the total failure of the GOP the past 6 years, including security issues, the country is waking up.

It's been a steady downhill slide for the GOP since the Schiavo debacle.
 

My_name_is_not_Larry

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The point is that its just not going to help. This plan might get the dems a majority in congress, but why have a slight majority when you can just completely overwhelm the other party? Get a more effective plan.
 

Axismaster

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Its my belief that the Democrats will win in 2006. I think people are fed up with constant Republican corruption. I'm a Libertarian, but I'm just calling it as I see it, unbiasedly.
 

edesiderius

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The problem with a lot of the liberal netroots activists here and on other boards is that they are so proudly committed to the Democratic Party, yet they are profoundly uncomfortable with playing the game of politics, which is ultimately how elections are won.

The point is that I am not suggestion a party devoid of ideas, and filled with tiresome partisan rhetoric. I'm suggestion a high-profile, national campaign to highlight some of the most disasterous and objectionable of the Republican failures in the last six years.

30 second issue spots:
- Medicare Reform
- The War in Iraq
- Saving Social Security
- Paying Down the National Debt
- Failure to develop alternative Energy/Energy Independence
- Safeguarding our chemical and nuclear plants
- Universal Health Care/ Health Care Reform

This is not a radical agenda, here. This is something that most Americans could get behind, that most Americans agree with and this are issues our country needs to address.

Issue spot:

"I'm Barak Obama, Junior Senator from Illinois. As of January of 2006, the Bush Administration's Medicare Part D Perscription Drug plan has been in effect. Hailed as a triumph for senior citizens, the plan has caused nothing but gaps in coverage, poor service and inefficent beaureacracy. Meanwhile, the bill is riddled with corporate handouts and subsidies, while our most vunerable seniors deal with confusing paperwork and the uncertainty of being covered. The Republicans say they stand for smaller government, but they've offered a tangled beauracratic nightmare. Vote for your local Democratic Congressman. With Democrats in Congress, you can count out a real perscription drug bill, without the red tape. [Insert Democratic 2006 Campaign Tag Line]."
"Paid for by the Democratic National Committee"

"Hi, I'm Tammy Duckworth, a veteran of the War in Iraq and candidate for Congress. The Bush Adminstration and the Republican Congress have spent the last five years convincing the American people that American lives were threatened by Iraqi weapons. They cobbled together war plan that didn't deploy enough troops to do the job on the ground, and didn't effectively supress the early insurgency. The administration has failed to provide the fighting men and women with proper armor, nor have they provided a clear or coherent strategy for victory. Mr. Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld have continued to insist that the war is going well. I served our country bravely, and I payed the ultimate price for the Administration's incompetence. [Duckworth is paralyzed]. How many more fighting men and women will the administration leave in harm's way? Vote for a Democratic Congress in November. Together, we can achieve a plan for victory and ensure that no man, and no woman is left behind." [Insert Democratic 2006 slogan here] "Paid for by the Democratic National Committee"

"Hi, I'm former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers. During the Clinton years, the Democratic administration worked tirelessly to address the budget problem, and pay down the national debt. We were sucessful and we left office with the first budget surplus in a great many years. In just six short years, rampant Republican spending has pushed the national debt beyond 9 trillion. It now stands at more than 80,000 dollars per family. And now the Republicans have begun to talk about fiscal responsibility, and claim that they are the party of finiancial restraint. A secure economic future for America means getting serious about taming the federal budget, and eliminated corrupt pork barrell spending. As baby boomers retire, more and more spending will be required to ensure that they recieve what was promised to the generation before them. Electing a Republican Congress will result in a less secure economic future for America, and more talk about being the part of financial restraint. Vote for Democratic Congress. Come November, cast a ballot for your local Democratic slate, and you cast a ballot for a prosperous future. [Insert tagline here].**

**Numbers are probably not right, I got them from memory.

How is this a plan devoid of substance? How is that cheap party rhetoic? A national campaign like this is just what the Democrats need. They need to offer reasonable, intelligent, calm criticism of the most eggregious republican errors and oversights, and offer the American people another choice. And at the local level, they can define percisely what that choice is: Specific campaign pledges, specific issues for specific regions.

Tell me where I am wrong.
 

My_name_is_not_Larry

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Axismaster said:
Its my belief that the Democrats will win in 2006. I think people are fed up with constant Republican corruption. I'm a Libertarian, but I'm just calling it as I see it, unbiasedly.
I have to disagree, there ought to be little change in congress. The economy is doing much better, and the president is implementing his foriegn policy well. Katrina didn't help and the port deal wasn't good. But with the republicans just now begining to campaign and with elections several months from now, the republicans have plenty of time and potential to gain in the Senate. So it will likely be a small change. Whether or not it will change for the democrats is yet to be decided, but I'm looking at all the factors in this election and, right now, I'm predicting a small change in political power.

I'm a centrist and I, too, am calling it as I see it, unbiasedly.

The problem with a lot of the liberal netroots activists here and on other boards is that they are so proudly committed to the Democratic Party, yet they are profoundly uncomfortable with playing the game of politics, which is ultimately how elections are won.

The point is that I am not suggestion a party devoid of ideas, and filled with tiresome partisan rhetoric. I'm suggestion a high-profile, national campaign to highlight some of the most disasterous and objectionable of the Republican failures in the last six years.

30 second issue spots:
- Medicare Reform
- The War in Iraq
- Saving Social Security
- Paying Down the National Debt
- Failure to develop alternative Energy/Energy Independence
- Safeguarding our chemical and nuclear plants
- Universal Health Care/ Health Care Reform

This is not a radical agenda, here. This is something that most Americans could get behind, that most Americans agree with and this are issues our country needs to address.



How is this a plan devoid of substance? How is that cheap party rhetoic? A national campaign like this is just what the Democrats need. They need to offer reasonable, intelligent, calm criticism of the most eggregious republican errors and oversights, and offer the American people another choice. And at the local level, they can define percisely what that choice is: Specific campaign pledges, specific issues for specific regions.

Tell me where I am wrong.
Issue spot:

"I'm Barak Obama, Junior Senator from Illinois. As of January of 2006, the Bush Administration's Medicare Part D Perscription Drug plan has been in effect. Hailed as a triumph for senior citizens, the plan has caused nothing but gaps in coverage, poor service and inefficent beaureacracy. Meanwhile, the bill is riddled with corporate handouts and subsidies, while our most vunerable seniors deal with confusing paperwork and the uncertainty of being covered. The Republicans say they stand for smaller government, but they've offered a tangled beauracratic nightmare. Vote for your local Democratic Congressman. With Democrats in Congress, you can count out a real perscription drug bill, without the red tape. [Insert Democratic 2006 Campaign Tag Line]."
"Paid for by the Democratic National Committee"

"Hi, I'm Tammy Duckworth, a veteran of the War in Iraq and candidate for Congress. The Bush Adminstration and the Republican Congress have spent the last five years convincing the American people that American lives were threatened by Iraqi weapons. They cobbled together war plan that didn't deploy enough troops to do the job on the ground, and didn't effectively supress the early insurgency. The administration has failed to provide the fighting men and women with proper armor, nor have they provided a clear or coherent strategy for victory. Mr. Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld have continued to insist that the war is going well. I served our country bravely, and I payed the ultimate price for the Administration's incompetence. [Duckworth is paralyzed]. How many more fighting men and women will the administration leave in harm's way? Vote for a Democratic Congress in November. Together, we can achieve a plan for victory and ensure that no man, and no woman is left behind." [Insert Democratic 2006 slogan here] "Paid for by the Democratic National Committee"

"Hi, I'm former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers. During the Clinton years, the Democratic administration worked tirelessly to address the budget problem, and pay down the national debt. We were sucessful and we left office with the first budget surplus in a great many years. In just six short years, rampant Republican spending has pushed the national debt beyond 9 trillion. It now stands at more than 80,000 dollars per family. And now the Republicans have begun to talk about fiscal responsibility, and claim that they are the party of finiancial restraint. A secure economic future for America means getting serious about taming the federal budget, and eliminated corrupt pork barrell spending. As baby boomers retire, more and more spending will be required to ensure that they recieve what was promised to the generation before them. Electing a Republican Congress will result in a less secure economic future for America, and more talk about being the part of financial restraint. Vote for Democratic Congress. Come November, cast a ballot for your local Democratic slate, and you cast a ballot for a prosperous future. [Insert tagline here].**

**Numbers are probably not right, I got them from memory.
why would you waste your time and other people's time on this? It completely took the necessity away from your post.
 
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Axismaster

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My_name_is_not_Larry said:
The economy is doing much better, and the president is implementing his foriegn policy well.
Good Lord! What planet do you live on?
 

edesiderius

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My_name_is_not_Larry said:
why would you waste your time and other people's time on this? It completely took the necessity away from your post.
The point was to spark a discussion on the future of the democratic party, and their strategy for the 2006 elections, and this was one of the only forums where I got any sort of coherent responses. People here seem to associated criticism with mudslinging, and I don't think that needs to be the case. I wanted to show what I had in mind when I said criticism. I don't see what was wrong with offering a few examples of issue spots. Imagine those ads running in Prime Time, while local news runs stories about the personable Democrats who are offering bold ideas, meanwhile the grassroot base of the party is fired up about the race.

I also genuinely wanted criticism for my ideas, hence taking them to message boards, and I wanted some sort of discussion. And people are idiots at Craigslist.
 

cnredd

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edesiderius said:
[Insert Democratic 2006 slogan here]
"The Democratic Party...Messing it up since November 23, 1963."
 

jfuh

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The real question to ask is this, Should the dems win a good majority in congress what changes will it make? Rather, what good will it do? I think anyone that has half a brain will realize by now that the dems are no better then the emperial republicans. There will still be pork barrel spending, there will still be corruption, there will still be scandals as well as probably maybe more blow jobs. They'll probably just restructure the districts to favor thier re-elections. The dems are at best the lesser evil, but no less evil.
I don't know how it is that the american public has so much patience with these a$$holes. When is anyone get it through thier head, these people are not here to represent you nor in any other good feeling way. They're only there for thier own greed and nothing more. Whatever ideologies that the founding father's had in mind for the US have been long gone. The only war they care of is the war of retaining power. This was true 1000 years ago, this is still true today.
 
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hipsterdufus said:
Bubble Boy fooled/scared/cheated the country into voting for him and the neo-cons again.
One of these days I'm going to read in one of your threads where you actually prove this. Until then, it's just slobbering lunacy. :shock:
 
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hipsterdufus

KCConservative said:
One of these days I'm going to read in one of your threads where you actually prove this. Until then, it's just slobbering lunacy. :shock:
Read on McDuff:

Hipsterdufus said:
Bubble Boy fooled/scared/cheated the country into voting for him and the neo-cons again.
BubbleBoy:
Bush in the Bubble
He has a tight circle of trust, and he likes it that way. But members of both parties are urging Bush to reach beyond the White House walls. How he governs—and how his M.O. stacks up historically.

Khue Bui for Newsweek
On Message: Bush often speaks before pre-screened crowds, with signs stressing his theme
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10417159/site/newsweek/

fooled/cheated/scared

How about the famous "Woves ad?"



The Bush ad uses a previously aired charge against the Massachusetts senator against a backdrop of roving wolves: "In an increasingly dangerous world, even after the first terrorist attack on America, John Kerry and the liberals in Congress voted to slash America's intelligence operations by $6 billion. Cuts so deep they would have weakened America's defenses. And weakness attracts those who are waiting to do America harm."

But Kerry's proposed 1994 reduction in the intelligence budget, which was rejected 75 to 20, would have been just $1 billion a year over six years. Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton noted that some Republicans were pushing even deeper intelligence cutbacks in that post-Cold War era, including then-Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.), selected by Bush as the new director of the CIA. Goss had proposed at least a 4 percent cut in intelligence spending.

Edwards, campaigning in Florida, said: "The reason they're trying to scare people . . . is because of their failures." Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt responded that "the Kerry campaign's attempt to obscure his record from the American people cannot change the facts. John Kerry has been wrong on national security for 20 years."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55518-2004Oct22.html

Or the "Mushroom Cloud" statements?

"We know that he (Saddam Hussein) has the infrastructure, nuclear scientists to make a nuclear weapon. And we know that when the inspectors assessed this after the Gulf War, he was far, far closer to a crude nuclear device than anybody thought, maybe six months from a crude nuclear device. The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."
-- Condoleezza Rice statement to Wolf Blitzer, September 8, 2002, hyping Bush's war.
G. W. Bush loved that remark so much he repeated it in a later speech he made. In an October 7, 2002 speech, Bush summarized the justification for war against Saddam Hussein: "America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=20665&mode=nested&order=0

There's plenty more if you need me to go on. But lets move to cheating:

There are well documented examples of voter supression and fraud in Conyer's book What went wrong in Ohio?

Here are some other examples. This is just one state mind you, and doesn't even get in to the partisan rabidness of Diebold.




http://vote2004.eriposte.com/swingstates/ohio.htm
 
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hipsterdufus

My_name_is_not_Larry said:
Its so hard being a centrist. You can't take sides because you half agree with everyone :(
not Larry - that's where about 50% of the country is, so you're not alone.
Probably 30% conservative, 20% Liberal and the rest is the Center.

Both sides need to reach out to the middle to win.

Bush ran in 2000 as a "Uniter not a Divider" (How's that workin ?)
Clinton was a master at reaching out to the middle.
 

Blue Collar Joe

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hipsterdufus said:
not Larry - that's where about 50% of the country is, so you're not alone.
Probably 30% conservative, 20% Liberal and the rest is the Center.

Both sides need to reach out to the middle to win.

Bush ran in 2000 as a "Uniter not a Divider" (How's that workin ?)
Clinton was a master at reaching out to the middle.

Clinton did not have mass appeal. The mods stayed home, so did the reps, and all was well. No one really gave a crap who was pres. There is only one politician out there that would be a bipartisan president at this time, and that would have to be John McCain.
He's more interested in doing what he thinks is right, rather than what his party wants done. I think he is the biggest threat to both the far left and the far right in the next election. He appeals to the moderates and anyone else who is not a party kool aid drinker.
 
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