A definition for religion

[Goshin]

I wanted to present this definition of religion in hopes of spurring interesting and intellectual discussion. Do you agree or disagree? Why?

"Organized religion is based on institutionalized group activity, which takes place in a designated location and involves appointed officials who may or may not have had personal experiences with spirituality. Once a religion becomes organized, it often loses it's connection with the spiritual and becomes a secular institution that exploits human spiritual needs without ever satisfying them. Organized religions tend to create hierarchical systems focused on money, power, control and politics. These are secular pursuits. Under these systems, religious hierarchy discourages it's members from having actual spiritual experiences, because they foster independence and cannot be effectively controlled. In these cases, genuine spirituality is manifested in only the mystic branches, monastic orders and ecstatic sects of the religion involved." - Stanislav Grof, M.D.

Generally speaking, I think this definition is spot on. This comes from my personal experience as well as anecdotes I have been told from friends and acquaintances about their experiences with organized religion.

I think this is an overly narrow and negative definition.

I would contrast the Baptist denomination. We are congregational, in that each congregation controls its own church, NOT the Baptist Convention or any hierarchy. Each congregation hires and fires its own Pastors, Deacons, and other officers.

Baptists are famous for schizm. If a given church has 100 people that think something should be THIS way, and 50 who think it should be THAT way, odds are good that the 50 will go off and start their own Baptist church. :mrgreen:

There is a basic creed that all Baptists are supposed to adhere to in order to call themselves "baptist" yes... but you have some who operate outside the spirit of that creed (like the Westboro nuts) while still claiming the name... part of the price you pay for not being a hierarchial org.

As for individual spirituality, Baptist churches vary. Some strongly encourage individual spiritual experiences and insights, some don't.

At any rate, I think the definition is overly narrow and negative. I prefer what James said...

Personally I like this Random house dictionary definition of religion- a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects, the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices.

 

[UtahBill]

Spiritualism, IMO, is a sense of something higher than self, leading to a sense of other than self.

It leads to a desire to participate in efforts to make the world a better place.

The premises behind religions don't have to be true, proveable, etc. They just have to be worth beleiving....

I would like to say that description applies to all religions, but it seems that the larger, and more "organized", the religion gets, the less spiritual it is and the less good they do.
There are notable exceptions. There are a few that make substantial donations to those suffering from disasters.

 

[First Thought]

Organized religion is people getting together with similar beliefs. Thats it. What you describe there could be any large group minus the spirituality.

I think that was Grof's point, that the churches and large religious organizations were losing touch with spirituality. Thus, they are becoming more secular. I can certainly understand why people would disagree with me and that is entirely okay

Your acquaintances and anecdotal evidence is far to limited to make a large and inaccurate (in many cases) assumption about the definition of religion.

I would agree. I was merely stating that I agree with this definition because of my own experiences and those of individuals I am acquainted with.

 

[Black Dog]

I think that was Grof's point, that the churches and large religious organizations were losing touch with spirituality. Thus, they are becoming more secular. I can certainly understand why people would disagree with me and that is entirely okay

Not arguing with you, just my 2 cents.

I do agree with you on the secular part. Probably why I am non denominational.

I would agree. I was merely stating that I agree with this definition because of my own experiences and those of individuals I am acquainted with.

I understand. Just did not like the limited scope. Rest assured I see your point.

 

[hazlnut]

I wanted to present this definition of religion in hopes of spurring interesting and intellectual discussion. Do you agree or disagree? Why?

Definition of a definition is a brief exposition calculated to express the meaning of the term.

Definition of religion: Finite man attempting to understand the infinite.

"Organized religion is based on institutionalized group activity, which takes place in a designated location and involves appointed officials who may or may not have had personal experiences with spirituality.

You asked for religion, now you've added the qualifier 'organized'.

First, I'd say 'organized religion' is mostly redundant. Religion is the organization of a set of spiritual beliefs and mythologies.

Once a religion becomes organized, it often loses it's connection with the spiritual and becomes a secular institution that exploits human spiritual needs without ever satisfying them. Organized religions tend to create hierarchical systems focused on money, power, control and politics. These are secular pursuits. Under these systems, religious hierarchy discourages it's members from having actual spiritual experiences, because they foster independence and cannot be effectively controlled. In these cases, genuine spirituality is manifested in only the mystic branches, monastic orders and ecstatic sects of the religion involved." - Stanislav Grof, M.D.

I disagree with the rest of it. It's not really a definition, more an overgeneralized criticism of organized religion. Though I agreed some points in Bill Maher's film, I think he too failed to see the beauty of the forest because of the ugliness of some it's trees.

Art can reveal great truths about the nature of things -- Go rent a movie called 'Inherit the Wind'.