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A comparison of Two cases: Trayvon martin and Emmett Till

Unitedwestand13

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I remember posting a prediction sometime during the case and before the verdict, that if zimmerman was not convicted, some people in the African American community or with a prior knowledge of the civil rights movement would compare this case to another infamous case: the Murder of Emmett till.

well it turns out i just found out a article that mentions both cases

A Longer Look at the Emmett Till-Trayvon Martin Comparison | Nicolaus Mills

The "not guilty" verdict acquitting George Zimmerman from criminal charges in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is scary for any number of reasons. Most of all because it reminds us that a racial era we hoped was over is not.

In the Zimmerman case we have an eerie historical link to the notorious trial of the two men who in 1955 murdered 14-year-old Emmett Till, a Chicago teenager visiting his relatives in Mississippi. Comparisons between the two cases have been drawn in a number of newspapers in recent days, but the link between the cases is a much deeper one than the comparisons suggest. At issue is not just the South and its past but who draws the boundaries that divide us as a society.

In Martin's case the outward boundaries he crossed were geographic. On his way home with candy and a soft drink, he passed through a townhouse complex where he was an unfamiliar figure to George Zimmerman, who had a history of repeatedly calling the police in Sanford, Florida, to report those he saw as threats. In Zimmerman's eyes Martin was, as he characterized him in his call, one of those "punks" who "always get away."

In Till's case the outward boundaries he crossed were verbal. Till and his cousin, both from the South Side of Chicago, were in rural Mississippi visiting family when they ran into trouble. On a dare from one of the teens he was talking with outside a local country store, Bryant's Grocery and Meat Market, Till was goaded into talking back to the white woman running the store. "Bye, Baby," he allegedly said to Carolyn Bryant, the wife of Roy Bryant, the store owner after buying candy from her.

Roy Bryant was out of town at the time of the incident, but when he returned three days later, he was told what had happened by his brother-in-law, J. W. Milam. The two set out to put Till in his place, and at midnight they showed up where Till was staying, the home of his cousin's grandfather, Mose Wright. Wright, understanding the seriousness of what had happened, begged the men to give Till a good whipping and stop at that, but his pleas were ignored.

Till was found days later in the Tallahatchie River, his body badly beaten and wrapped in barbed wire. A cotton-gin fan had been tied around his neck in an effort to keep him from floating.

As in the Martin case, the protest from outside the town in which the killing occurred was much louder than the local protest. Till's mother insisted that her son's body be returned to Chicago and not buried in Mississippi as the sheriff wanted. The result was a national horror. Till had been shot in the head, and one of his eyes had been badly gouged. The open casket that Till's mother insisted upon made her son's injuries available for all to see.

At the trial none of the violence made a difference, nor did the testimony of Mose Wright, who identified Bryant and Milan as the men he saw take Till away. In just over an hour, an all-white jury came back with a "not guilty" verdict.

Months later, Bryant and Milan, knowing they could not be retried, told Alabama journalist William Bradford Huie exactly what they did in exchange for a fee of $4,000 ($3,000 for them and $1,000 for their lawyer). Huie's article, "The Shocking Story of Approved Killing in Mississippi," appeared in the January 1956 issue of Look magazine.

We are a long way from the crudities of the Emmett Till trial. The jury in the Zimmerman case took 16 hours over the course of two days to reach its verdict, and today, the Justice Department has the authority to act if it can be shown that a civil rights violation took place in the killing of Trayvon Martin.

What we can't get away from, though, is how the sequence of events that led to Till's and Martin's deaths began with the two teenage boys failing to accept their "assigned" social place without realizing what a threat that posed. After that line was crossed, everything else followed.
 

Lutherf

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A comparison between Emmett Till and Trayvon Martin.......:doh

Emmett Till was actively pursued by people because he committed the "crime" of sweet talking a white woman. He was beaten, tortured, shot in the head and tossed in the river with a big chunk of metal chained around his neck. There was no question about the racial animus involved and that animus was itself considered to be justification by the jury.

To compare that with Trayvon Martin where there was ample evidence that the victim actively and wantonly assaulted his killer and absolutely no evidence of racial animus is more than a stretch. Hell, it's more than a moon shot. It's simply race baiting.
 
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Unitedwestand13

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A comparison between Emmett Till and Trayvon Martin.......:doh

Emmett Till was actively pursued by people because he committed the "crime" if sweet talking a white woman. He was beaten, tortured, shot in the head and tossed in the river with a big chunk of metal chained around his neck. There was no question about the racial animus involved and that animus was itself considered to be justification by the jury.

To compare that with Trayvon Martin where there was ample evidence that the victim actively and wantonly assaulted his killer and absolutely no evidence of racial animus is more than a stretch. Hell, it's more than a moon shot. It's simply race baiting.
Did i say anything about agreeing with the article? i just posted the article to start a debate, or is even talking about the slight possibility that the two cases might be in anyway related race baiting?

the only part of the article that i thought raised a interesting point was this bit at the end

We are a long way from the crudities of the Emmett Till trial. The jury in the Zimmerman case took 16 hours over the course of two days to reach its verdict, and today, the Justice Department has the authority to act if it can be shown that a civil rights violation took place in the killing of Trayvon Martin.

What we can't get away from, though, is how the sequence of events that led to Till's and Martin's deaths began with the two teenage boys failing to accept their "assigned" social place without realizing what a threat that posed. After that line was crossed, everything else followed.
 

Jack Fabulous

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I remember posting a prediction sometime during the case and before the verdict, that if zimmerman was not convicted, some people in the African American community or with a prior knowledge of the civil rights movement would compare this case to another infamous case: the Murder of Emmett till.

well it turns out i just found out a article that mentions both cases

A Longer Look at the Emmett Till-Trayvon Martin Comparison | Nicolaus Mills
Just when I think the race baiters can't get it any more wrong...:roll:

This may be the single most shameless example yet. And that's saying something.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Just when I think the race baiters can't get it any more wrong...:roll:

This may be the single most shameless example yet. And that's saying something.
am i one being called the race baiter, or is it the person who wrote the article?

Because if you are saying i am a race baiter, i am getting annoyed because i never had any Intention of racebaiting.
 

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Did i say anything about agreeing with the article? i just posted the article to start a debate, or is even talking about the slight possibility that the two cases might be in anyway related race baiting?

the only part of the article that i thought raised a interesting point was this bit at the end
Did it occur to you that I may have been discussing the article instead of your comment? I mean, seriously, when is the last time I gave anything you had to say any consideration and why would I start now?
 

Unitedwestand13

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Did it occur to you that I may have been discussing the article instead of your comment? I mean, seriously, when is the last time I gave anything you had to say any consideration and why would I start now?
well i did not know what you were referring to in your previous comment. sorry for accusing you.
 

jamesrage

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I remember posting a prediction sometime during the case and before the verdict, that if zimmerman was not convicted, some people in the African American community or with a prior knowledge of the civil rights movement would compare this case to another infamous case: the Murder of Emmett till.

well it turns out i just found out a article that mentions both cases

A Longer Look at the Emmett Till-Trayvon Martin Comparison | Nicolaus Mills

Who ever is making that comparison is obviously ****ing retarded.Because anyone would have to be brain damaged to make such a idiotic comparison.
 

Jack Fabulous

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am i one being called the race baiter, or is it the person who wrote the article?

Because if you are saying i am a race baiter, i am getting annoyed because i never had any Intention of racebaiting.
Let me guess... you only posted the article because you found it's journalistic merits worthy of fostering open and honest debate, right?:roll:

B.S. It's a hack piece written by a hack with the sole purpose of riling up the masses by attempting to link the Zimmerman case with one of the most notorious hate crimes in the history of the nation. The fact that you give it enough credence to post it here DOES say something about you.
 

MaggieD

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I remember posting a prediction sometime during the case and before the verdict, that if zimmerman was not convicted, some people in the African American community or with a prior knowledge of the civil rights movement would compare this case to another infamous case: the Murder of Emmett till.

well it turns out i just found out a article that mentions both cases

A Longer Look at the Emmett Till-Trayvon Martin Comparison | Nicolaus Mills
An absolutely ridiculous comparison. Just thought I'd check in and say that. This thread is absurd.
 

humbolt

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Did i say anything about agreeing with the article? i just posted the article to start a debate, or is even talking about the slight possibility that the two cases might be in anyway related race baiting?

the only part of the article that i thought raised a interesting point was this bit at the end
You looked for an article, and voila, you found one. Imagine that. If I look long and hard enough, I can probably find a study on the correlation between the shrimp social order and the pecking order of society in America. That such a thing exists doesn't make it valid. If anything, this serves to demonstrate just how far this country has traveled to overcome racial divisions. I won't accuse you of race baiting just because you have a gas can, a pile of tinder, and matches though. You yourself know what you're after.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Let me guess... you only posted the article because you found it's journalistic merits worthy of fostering open and honest debate, right?:roll:

B.S. It's a hack piece written by a hack with the sole purpose of riling up the masses by attempting to link the Zimmerman case with one of the most notorious hate crimes in the history of the nation. The fact that you give it enough credence to post it here DOES say something about you.
I did not have any partisan intent by posting a story. On what merits is this story false.

I had no partisan intentions in posting this story, and i don't understand why this subject is off limits.
 

apdst

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Did i say anything about agreeing with the article? i just posted the article to start a debate, or is even talking about the slight possibility that the two cases might be in anyway related race baiting?

the only part of the article that i thought raised a interesting point was this bit at the end
Which side of the debate are you on?
 

Jack Fabulous

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I did not have any partisan intent by posting a story. On what merits is this story false.

I had no partisan intentions in posting this story, and i don't understand why this subject is off limits.
Let me put it this way... Emmett Till was SLAUGHTERED. Tortured and slaughtered ONLY because of the color of his skin. In what way is this similar to what happened that night between Zimmerman and Martin?
 

Unitedwestand13

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You looked for an article, and voila, you found one. Imagine that. If I look long and hard enough, I can probably find a study on the correlation between the shrimp social order and the pecking order of society in America. That such a thing exists doesn't make it valid. If anything, this serves to demonstrate just how far this country has traveled to overcome racial divisions. I won't accuse you of race baiting just because you have a gas can, a pile of tinder, and matches though. You yourself know what you're after.
i did not have, and still have no intentions, of race baiting.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Which side of the debate are you on?
I had nothing invested in the zimmerman/martin trial. i was surprised that Zimmerman was not convicted at least on the charge of manslaughter, but the jury made it's verdict. the prosecution were simply incompetent in their handling of the case.

personally i want this case to be over and done with.
 

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i did not have, and still have no intentions, of race baiting.
Okay. I'll take your word for it. If you can, put on an objective face for a minute, pretend you didn't post the thing, consider the vast volume of race baiting going on over this case, and see what you think about it then.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Let me put it this way... Emmett Till was SLAUGHTERED. Tortured and slaughtered ONLY because of the color of his skin. In what way is this similar to what happened that night between Zimmerman and Martin?
from the article the only comparisons that i think the author were trying to make ( i don't know for sure if this is correct) were on the broader issues of race and society

In Martin's case the outward boundaries he crossed were geographic. On his way home with candy and a soft drink, he passed through a townhouse complex where he was an unfamiliar figure to George Zimmerman, who had a history of repeatedly calling the police in Sanford, Florida, to report those he saw as threats. In Zimmerman's eyes Martin was, as he characterized him in his call, one of those "punks" who "always get away."
As in the Martin case, the protest from outside the town in which the killing occurred was much louder than the local protest. Till's mother insisted that her son's body be returned to Chicago and not buried in Mississippi as the sheriff wanted. The result was a national horror. Till had been shot in the head, and one of his eyes had been badly gouged. The open casket that Till's mother insisted upon made her son's injuries available for all to see.

At the trial none of the violence made a difference, nor did the testimony of Mose Wright, who identified Bryant and Milan as the men he saw take Till away. In just over an hour, an all-white jury came back with a "not guilty" verdict.
We are a long way from the crudities of the Emmett Till trial. The jury in the Zimmerman case took 16 hours over the course of two days to reach its verdict, and today, the Justice Department has the authority to act if it can be shown that a civil rights violation took place in the killing of Trayvon Martin.

What we can't get away from, though, is how the sequence of events that led to Till's and Martin's deaths began with the two teenage boys failing to accept their "assigned" social place without realizing what a threat that posed. After that line was crossed, everything else followed.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Okay. I'll take your word for it. If you can, put on an objective face for a minute, pretend you didn't post the thing, consider the vast volume of race baiting going on over this case, and see what you think about it then.
i can find a couple of threads of what i think is race bating.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimmerman-martin-case/166951-hate-crimes-indeed.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimmerman-martin-case/166409-outrage-really.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimmerman-martin-case/166807-should-we-questioning-obamas-motives-hatred-and-race-hustling-friends-w-12-a.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimmerman-martin-case/166711-why-martin-considered-suspicious-zimmerman.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimmerman-martin-case/166917-liberals-better-then-god-2.html

maybe i am just frustrated. the topic of civil rights is something i am passionate about, and when the shooting first became news there was a lot of talk about racism being a possable motive.

now i am not so sure.
 
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X Factor

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Wow just on it's facts it the two cases aren't comparable at all. Geez.
 

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You should try to understand that a lot of the country has heard just about enough of this. If blacks are so concerned about the deaths in their community from violence, maybe they should look to themselves first. Well over 90% of all crime committed on blacks is committed by blacks. No creepy assed cracker involved at all. Yesterday I read a poster bemoaning the fact that there's a lot of "race deniers" on these threads here. I have no doubt he has callouses on his hand from all the wringing.
 

Unitedwestand13

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You should try to understand that a lot of the country has heard just about enough of this. If blacks are so concerned about the deaths in their community from violence, maybe they should look to themselves first. Well over 90% of all crime committed on blacks is committed by blacks. No creepy assed cracker involved at all. Yesterday I read a poster bemoaning the fact that there's a lot of "race deniers" on these threads here. I have no doubt he has callouses on his hand from all the wringing.
that topic involves finding a solution to poverty, and that is also a very complicated issue with no easy answer.
 

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from the article the only comparisons that i think the author were trying to make ( i don't know for sure if this is correct) were on the broader issues of race and society
Let's establish the innaccuracies/stupidities of that article:

1. The boundary Martin crossed that got him into trouble wasn't geographic, it was legal. The minute you cross from legal action to illegal action, there will be trouble. The second he went from pedestrian to assaulter he was in trouble.

2. The implicit comparison of the dead bodies of Emmett Till and Trayvon Martin is astounding in its contrast. Emmett Till was beaten and tortured before he was killed and his corpse probably looked like holy hell. Trayvon Martin, outside of the single small bullet wound, had nary a scratch on his body.

3. The problem with saying that neither Emmett nor Trayvon accepted their "assigned social place" is that there is really no definition to what "assigned social place" Trayvon failed to accept. Did he not accept his assigned social place as a law-abiding citizen or his assigned role as a responsible student (getting him suspended and sent to that area in the first place). In any case, there is little comparison to be made regarding the general acceptance of the roles assigned to Emmett Till and Trayvon Martin. Most notably, the assigned place for Emmett was irrational and unreasonably forced upon only a subset of the population. The social assignment Trayvon Martin failed (to be a good student/law abiding citizen) are socially rational and reasonably applied to pretty much everyone at that age.
 

Jack Fabulous

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from the article the only comparisons that i think the author were trying to make ( i don't know for sure if this is correct) were on the broader issues of race and society
That is BS and you know it.

The author chose the Till case because he wanted to race bait. That is the real purpose of this article.
 
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