A Closer Look at Capitalism.

[Peter]

It always amazes me how many Americans think the rest of the world automatically has a lower standard of living than the US.
Europe (the UK in particular) may have overall smaller houses but in what other way is our standard of living lower as we have access to all the same stuff as you guys and in regards to healthcare and public transport I'd argue Europe is much better.

 

[I'm Supposn]

What matters is results, and the result is that France is a shithole country. America's bottom 10% is better off than France's middle class:

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Lafayette, Peter, & Aociswundumho, I have no doubt a middle-income Frenchmen's living standards are superior to those of middle-income citizens in USA's Mississippi or Alabama. I believe persons of incomes no greater than their nation's median income do better within most western European nations.

USA has been squandering our wealth while many other nations have been advancing at comparatively quicker and greater extents of improvements. If this trend continues, cases of immigration from the USA will increase both in numbers and their proportions to others from nations of poorer living standards that will continue seeking to enter the USA. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Lafayette]

WE DID NOTHING ABOUT IT TWO DECADES AGO AND NOTHING TODAY!

Lafayette & Aociswundumho, I have no doubt a middle-income Frenchmen's living standards are superior to those of middle-income citizens in USA's Mississippi or Alabama. I believe persons of incomes no greater than their nation's median income do better within most western European nations.

Not just Mississippi or Alabama. You needn't take a most extreme example for the comparison. Because "Income" is not the only comparative.

If I keep repeating that lifespans in Europe are 3/4 years longer than in the US it has do with with "other factors". One of which I suggest is National Healthcare!

USA has been squandering our wealth while many other nations have been advancing at comparatively quicker and greater extents of improvements. If this trend continues, cases of immigration from the USA will increase both in numbers and proportions to people from nations of poorer living standards continuance of seeking to enter the USA.
Respectfully, Supposn

There are a good many reasons why migration will continue from Central America to the US. And that is because of the miserable economic conditions in those countries due to incompetents running the nation. (And, I might add, insufficient means to prevent births employable by the population.)

None of which is a good reason to allow them in and let them look for illegal work! They collectively are one of the highest contingents of Uncle Sam's prison-population.

From here a highly dated (2003?) assessment of the Latin America contingent in the US prisons: Hispanic Prisoners in the United States

Hispanic Prisoners in the United States Hispanics in Prisons and Jails:
· There are 283,000 Hispanics in federal and state prisons and local jails, making up slightly over 15% of the inmate population.
· Nearly 1 in 3 (32%) persons held in federal prisons is Hispanic.
· As of 2001, 4% of Hispanic males in their twenties and early thirties were in prison or jail - as compared to 1.8% of white males.
· Hispanics are the fastest growing group being imprisoned, increasing from 10.9% of all State and Federal inmates in 1985 to 15.6% in 2001.

Why should these people be allowed into the US without the proper credentials (namely university level degree) is beyond comprehension. So they can tie-up with their families already living in the US?

And since when has that become a National Objective. Given the fundamental change in America's Nature of Work, which is a perennial present problem within America's existing population, Uncle Sam needs no migrants from Central America if they do not have an adequate level of educational attainment ...

 

[TurtleDude]

Better off, you say?

Then why is my lifespan in France 3-years longer than yours in the US?!?

Because knotheads like you are NOT getting the free National Healthcare that we get throughout Europe ... !

that's not quite true, is it? you don't know his demographics. we have lots of young black males who are killed in the drug war gang disputes. That skews the lifespan here in the states. Middle class whites in The USA compare favorably with most of the Eurosocialist nations

 

[Lafayette]

that's not quite true, is it? you don't know his demographics. we have lots of young black males who are killed in the drug war gang disputes. That skews the lifespan here in the states. Middle class whites in The USA compare favorably with most of the Eurosocialist nations

Blah, blah, blah

The proof is in the numbers and I have posted the graphics multiple times ....

 

[Lafayette]

FUNCTIONAL DICHOTOMY BETWEEN TWO ECONOMIC SYSTEMS

I suspect that China may have found such a system because it answers to both necessities.

China's exit from imprisonment in an economic system that failed miserably is well known. Even the Chinese people rioted at one point and were repressed with loss-of-life.

There is no Chinese "economic system". It is just low-cost provision of lower-cost goods on to the International Market greedy to buy them. You will note that "Services" are not counted in that equation, because nobody cares to buy them outside of China.

Whereas in the US the Services Industries account for around 84% of all workers today. This functional dichotomy between the two countries cannot be more poignant as regards their blatantly different economic systems ...

 

[HangLow]

​

 

[Lafayette]

that's not quite true, is it? you don't know his demographics. we have lots of young black males who are killed in the drug war gang disputes. That skews the lifespan here in the states. Middle class whites in The USA compare favorably with most of the Eurosocialist nations

It is very true and you know it!

What you say above may be very true, but if black-males had the right to see a doctor without having to pay an enormous cost for the visit then there would be fewer incidences of medical disfunction amongst that particular group of American-citizens;

The total cost of the Afghanistan War since its inception (by a Replicant PotUS) has been TWO TRILLION DOLLARS! That money could have been better spent on funding a decent American healthcare system. Which would produce an extension of longevity that would be dearly welcomed in a developed-nation that has amongst the shortest ... !

 

[TurtleDude]

It is very true and you know it!

What you say above may be very true, but if black-males had the right to see a doctor without having to pay an enormous cost for the visit then there would be fewer incidences of medical disfunction amongst that particular group of American-citizens;

The total cost of the Afghanistan War since its inception (by a Replicant PotUS) has been TWO TRILLION DOLLARS! That money could have been better spent on funding a decent American healthcare system. Which would produce an extension of longevity that would be dearly welcomed in a developed-nation that has amongst the shortest ... !

that's really out in left field. And yes, the USA should not spend so much money protecting countries like France

 

[I'm Supposn]

In a true capitalist system there is no need for minimum wage laws. True capitalism has to allow collective bargaining with teeth and that calls for unions with teeth. No honest capitalist would dispute that so it just boils down the the question of which side has the biggest teeth, the employer or the employed. ...

Montgomery, regardless of whatever else exists within a nation's economic system, if an employer / employee relationships exist, there's need for something similar to, or performing the functions of USA's minimum wage laws.
If a nation's laws do not support their government's or quasi-government's agency to enforce such regulations, they must be the extremely few among the world's poorest and rudimentary national economies. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[I'm Supposn]

Montgomery, please expand and further explain upon your stating "True capitalism has to allow collective bargaining with teeth and that calls for unions with teeth. No honest capitalist would dispute that so it just boils down the the question of which side has the biggest teeth, the employer or the employed".
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[TurtleDude]

Montgomery, regardless of whatever else exists within a nation's economic system, if an employer / employee relationships exist, there's need for something similar to, or performing the functions of USA's minimum wage laws.
If a nation's laws do not support their government's or quasi-government's agency to enforce such regulations, they must be the extremely few among the world's poorest and rudimentary national economies. Respectfully, Supposn

I don't know if you noticed, but Montgomery is listed as being BANNED-meaning you won't get a response

 

[Lafayette]

that's really out in left field. And yes, the USA should not spend so much money protecting countries like France

The US is spending diddly-shat in defending France. Total number of American military personnel in France is ... 5.

Get a map. Europe has its own defense system and the only possible threat could be from Russia. And, given that Putin's daughter bought a ranch in the southeast of France 5 years ago, I doubt that any threat whatsoever is plausible.

Nonetheless, the US has its key military bases in Italy. From here: Politico Magazine

Italy

Hundreds of bases in Europe have closed since the 1990s, but the base and troop ( 11,500) presence in Italy has been relatively constant. Recently, the military has built new bases and expanded Africa-focused operations in Sicily.

Molto bènè ... !

 

[TurtleDude]

The US is spending diddly-shat in defending France. Total number of American military personnel in France is ... 5.

Get a map. Europe has its own defense system and the only possible threat could be from Russia. And, given that Putin's daughter bought a ranch in the southeast of France 5 years ago, I doubt that any threat whatsoever is plausible.

Nonetheless, the US has its key military bases in Italy. From here: Politico Magazine


Molto bènè ... !

cool story Bro. the USA defensive umbrella allows lots of western nations to spend less than they normally should

 

[psikeyhackr]

Psikeyhackr, I suppose Adam Smith was a proponent of education, but I don't recall anything within his book that so specifically mentions accounting.
I suspect you're quoting other peoples' opinions of what they believe may have been Adam Smith's thoughts.

Perhaps you can cite the chapter of his book that you're referring to? Respectfully, Supposn

The Great thing about e-books is that they can be searched and Wealth of Nations is in the public domain.

The phrase "read, write, and ACCOUNT" occurs four times in the text. He does not say "read, write and Arithmetic" which we commonly associate with education.

 

[psikeyhackr]

That is amusing that you think smith meant book keeping when he said account.
If you read the whole link instead of just the headlines it becomes obvious that smith was simply using an old term for the word we now use as maths. His statement these days would read that a child should learn reading, writing and mathematics. .

Well I guess we would have to study semantic usage from the time.

Double entry accounting is was 400 years old when Smith wrote Wealth of Nations. But now we have computers to do bookkeeping. Accounting/ finance could have been mandatory in high schools since Sputnik. Instead we have listened to crap about economic growth while economists have ignored the depreciation of durable consumer junk since Sputnik.

ToxicDrums.com

Former domain of a blog covering articles from a wide range of fields from science to entertainment.

www.toxicdrums.com

 

[Antiwar]

Montgomery, please expand and further explain upon your stating "True capitalism has to allow collective bargaining with teeth and that calls for unions with teeth. No honest capitalist would dispute that so it just boils down the the question of which side has the biggest teeth, the employer or the employed".
Respectfully, Supposn

Montgomery was banned.

 

[soylentgreen]

Well I guess we would have to study semantic usage from the time.

Double entry accounting is was 400 years old when Smith wrote Wealth of Nations. But now we have computers to do bookkeeping. Accounting/ finance could have been mandatory in high schools since Sputnik. Instead we have listened to crap about economic growth while economists have ignored the depreciation of durable consumer junk since Sputnik.

ToxicDrums.com

Former domain of a blog covering articles from a wide range of fields from science to entertainment.

www.toxicdrums.com

True. Smiths words , like marx's are of only historical interest. Times have changed and so must either philosophy if it is to be relevant in todays world.

No one is arguing that the system works. Just how and why it works as it does.

 

[psikeyhackr]

True. Smiths words , like marx's are of only historical interest. Times have changed and so must either philosophy if it is to be relevant in todays world.

No one is arguing that the system works. Just how and why it works as it does.

The system has worked since WWII by ignoring the depreciation of durable consumer junk.
Planned Obsolescence did not exist during the times of Adam Smith and Karl Marx

 

[soylentgreen]

The system has worked since WWII by ignoring the depreciation of durable consumer junk.
Planned Obsolescence did not exist during the times of Adam Smith and Karl Marx

Nor did mass consumerism or assembly line production. The whole industrial revolution thing was just kicking into gear around then as well. Times have changed but some still treat marx as if it were gospel and should not change instead of as a philosophy under constant change. While adams appears to be a forgotten footnote as most today do not know the difference between capitalism as a philosophy and laissez faire capitalism.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I had a conversation with a man who claimed to be a Swedish English teacher and Socialist. He objected to the idea of mandatory accounting in the schools on the grounds that the math would make Capitalism seem logical.

People who believe in ideologies are annoying.

Economists have been ignoring the depreciation of durable consumer trash since WWII. All discussion of economics since Sputnik that doesn't bring up planned obsolescence is rubbish. Why there isn't discussion of governments outlawing the manufacture of unrepairable shit is beyond me. But most people don't really buy technology, they buy brand names.