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A Bill To Ban Abortion.

Squawker

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Rep. Duprey was on the O'Reilly Factor tonight -- you can catch the replay at 11 pm est.
 

skabanger13

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the only time i support abortion is in cases of rape or if the pregnancy or birth will put the mother in risk for medical reasons.i thank more and more people today are using abortion as a form of birth control, like thay would use a condom are pills, and i thank its disgusting to kill a human being because some one decided not to use a condom. for every one thats going to say a fetus isn't s human being yet answer this. if a pregnant woman is murdered and thay catch the killer what will he be charged with? answer, 2 counts of capitol murder. what how could that be?
 

shuamort

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skabanger13 said:
if a pregnant woman is murdered and thay catch the killer what will he be charged with? answer, 2 counts of capitol murder. what how could that be?
Because some states have enacted fetal-murder laws which are independent of regular murder laws:

These states have fetal homicide laws where fetuses are victims at any stage of development:
AZ
ID
IL
LA
MI
MN
MO
ND
NE
ND
OH
PA
SD
UT
WI
These states have fetal homicide laws where fetuses are victims at only specific stages in development:
AR
CA
FL
GA
MA
MS
NV
OK
RI
SC
TN
WA

The following states criminalize certain conduct that terminates pregnancies or causes miscarriages:
IA
IN
KS
NC
NH
NM
VA
 

26 X World Champs

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shuamort

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26 X World Champs said:
Just to clarify...abortion is LEGAL everywhere in the USA, no exceptions....and it will most definitely stay that way....guaranteed
To clarify your clarification, first term abortion is legal everywhere in the USA. After the first term is contingent on individual state laws.
 

26 X World Champs

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shuamort said:
To clarify your clarification, first term abortion is legal everywhere in the USA. After the first term is contingent on individual state laws.


Agreed!

I do not want to come across harshly. I just think that when the Supreme Court makes a ruling it is legitimate until they change it or an ammendment to the Constitution is passed.

Calling a legal abortion murder is not a fact.

The definition of murder is:

To kill (another human) unlawfully.

One fan argue that they believe that abortion is wrong, unethical, against their personal beliefs, but it is not murder. It is a legal medical procedure that is paid for by health insurers nationwide.
 

ShamMol

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26 X World Champs said:
Agreed!

I do not want to come across harshly. I just think that when the Supreme Court makes a ruling it is legitimate until they change it or an ammendment to the Constitution is passed.

Calling a legal abortion murder is not a fact.

The definition of murder is:

To kill (another human) unlawfully.

One fan argue that they believe that abortion is wrong, unethical, against their personal beliefs, but it is not murder. It is a legal medical procedure that is paid for by health insurers nationwide.

Not only is it a legal procedure, but it is not killing another human being. A humna being comes into existence when it can CONSCIOUSLY think for itself (which usually comes between 6-7 months). Then there is the issue of viability outside of the womb. Long story short, there are so many definitions of when a human is a human that this issue won't be resolved until the Supreme Court decides when Human life really begins, because we can go around and around all day and not convince each other when it starts.
 

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DontForgetMe said:
Its a Womens Right To Choose End of story

Even Though, the women is the carrier, we men, should be able to share are side of the argument. Even though we may never be able to carry a baby :( we still do have the feeling of fatherhood, and an abortion of your wife's child is not only an emotional burden on the mother, but an emotional burden on the father who must go through life wondering what the baby would have grown up to been. How would that make you feel? You can't seriously say it wouldn't phase you, that would be complete and utter bull.

ShamMol said:
Not only is it a legal procedure, but it is not killing another human being. A humna being comes into existence when it can CONSCIOUSLY think for itself (which usually comes between 6-7 months). Then there is the issue of viability outside of the womb. Long story short, there are so many definitions of when a human is a human that this issue won't be resolved until the Supreme Court decides when Human life really begins, because we can go around and around all day and not convince each other when it starts.

Shammol, I completely disagree on the thought that it is not a living being. How can you say that when, if the baby had been given a chance and gone through the complete life cycle of pregnancy, before being so cruelly terminated. It had no chance at life which is a very sacred human right in my book. Who's knows what that baby could have became if it had been given its chance at life.
 

ShamMol

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-jess- said:
Shammol, I completely disagree on the thought that it is not a living being. How can you say that when, if the baby had been given a chance and gone through the complete life cycle of pregnancy, before being so cruelly terminated. It had no chance at life which is a very sacred human right in my book. Who's knows what that baby could have became if it had been given its chance at life.

Yeah! Someone criticized me, let me respond hastily!

The point is not whether the fetus will turn out to be president or a bum, not whether the termination is cruel or nice. It is whether it is legal or not. And it is legal under the woman's right to be secure in her own body (which draws from so many amendments that it is mind-boggling...have to memorize it for my test tomorrow). That right is what at issue, not whether the fetus will have a chance to live and breath air. And what else is at issue is when a fruts is considered a human being. I am not going to try to convince that I am right because most people's view on when a fetus is human is so ingrained that it is idiotic to try (just recapping, my posistion is six months when it can conciously think for itself...).

A suggestion, as I have been talking to you, try not to use emotion as the basis for an argument, it is always better to have facts, straight up facts taht are not personal supporting your beliefs...just a suggestion for the future jess.
 

-jess-

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ShamMol said:
Yeah! Someone criticized me, let me respond hastily!

The point is not whether the fetus will turn out to be president or a bum, not whether the termination is cruel or nice. It is whether it is legal or not. And it is legal under the woman's right to be secure in her own body (which draws from so many amendments that it is mind-boggling...have to memorize it for my test tomorrow). That right is what at issue, not whether the fetus will have a chance to live and breath air. And what else is at issue is when a fruts is considered a human being. I am not going to try to convince that I am right because most people's view on when a fetus is human is so ingrained that it is idiotic to try (just recapping, my posistion is six months when it can conciously think for itself...).

A suggestion, as I have been talking to you, try not to use emotion as the basis for an argument, it is always better to have facts, straight up facts taht are not personal supporting your beliefs...just a suggestion for the future jess.

Advise well taken, thanks, Will keep it in mind for the future.

Yet, even though it is not legally determined that It cant think till the 6 months, ummm... I actually can't come up with an argument for that :( well, I'll keep your advise in mind as I go try to win a debate... lol
 

Fantasea

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-jess- said:
Advise well taken, thanks, Will keep it in mind for the future.

Yet, even though it is not legally determined that It cant think till the 6 months, ummm... I actually can't come up with an argument for that :( well, I'll keep your advise in mind as I go try to win a debate... lol
The correct advice is, of course, to never discuss abortion on the basis of emotion, or for that matter, religion. Abortion should only be discussed on the basis of scientific, medical, genetic, or obstetric fact.

What do we know, factually, that is? How about this, for starters:

Day 1 - conception takes place.
7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.
10 days - mother’s menses stop.
18 days - heart begins to beat.
21 days - pumps own blood through separate closed circulatory system with own blood type.
28 days - eye, ear and respiratory system begin to form.
42 days - brain waves recorded, skeleton complete, reflexes present.
7 weeks - thumbsucking.
8 weeks - all body systems present.
9 weeks - squints, swallows, moves tongue, makes fist.
11 weeks - spontaneous breathing movements, has fingernails, all body systems working.
12 weeks - weighs one ounce.
16 weeks - genital organs clearly differentiated, grasps with hands, swims, kicks, turns, somersaults, (still not felt by the mother.)
18 weeks - vocal cords work – can cry.
20 weeks - has hair on head, weighs one pound, 12 inches long.
23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*
24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*
25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*
(*Source: M. Allen et. al., "The Limits of Viability." New England Journal
of Medicine. 11/25/93: Vol. 329, No. 22, p. 1597.)

We know that 'preemies', weighing less than a can of Coke at birth, are now attending school with their full term peers.

What do some prominent persons have to say on the subject?

* In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question before us here: When does human life begin? Appearing to speak on behalf of the scientific community was a group of internationally-known geneticists and biologists who had the same story to tell, namely, that human life begins at conception - and they told their story with a profound absence of opposing testimony.

Dr. Micheline M. Mathews-Roth, Harvard medical School, gave confirming testimony, supported by references from over 20 embryology and other medical textbooks that human life began at conception.

* "Father of Modern Genetics" Dr. Jerome Lejeune told the lawmakers: "To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion ... it is plain experimental evidence."

* Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman, Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, added: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

* Dr. McCarthy de Mere, medical doctor and law professor, University of Tennessee, testified: "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."

* Dr. Alfred Bongiovanni, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, concluded, "I am no more prepared to say that these early stages represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty ... is not a human being."

* Dr. Richard V. Jaynes: "To say that the beginning of human life cannot be determined scientifically is utterly ridiculous."

* Dr. Landrum Shettles, sometimes called the "Father of In Vitro Fertilization" notes, "Conception confers life and makes that life one of a kind." And on the Supreme Court ruling _Roe v. Wade_, "To deny a truth [about when life begins] should not be made a basis for legalizing abortion."

* Professor Eugene Diamond: "...either the justices were fed a backwoods biology or they were pretending ignorance about a scientific certainty."

Rather than being swayed by someone who says he belives this, or thinks that, why not do your own research on the subject.

I think you might find a visit with little Samuel quite interesting. I know I did.

http://www.pagerealm.com/handhope/
 

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Excellent post Fantasea. :good_job: :bravo:
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Let me tell you:

Day 1 is the best part.

But seriously folks. The difference between a zygote and a baby is the difference between an 6 year old and a 7 year old: time.

I don't know if you'd call that science, but that's just a fact I can't seem to get around.
 
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