A $20,243 bike crash: Zuckerberg hospital’s aggressive tactics leave patients with big bills

[HenryChinaski]

I don't really talk to him.

Smart.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nah, that's just the wannabe bright blue land of unicorns and rainbows. Up here there's no such thing as private, for profit hospitals run by evil capitalists. She would have gotten her arm fixed for free. Why pine for the land of unicorns, when you can come north to the land of beavers and not go broke trying to be healthy? :lol:

Nope, there is no free medical care in Canada - there is state funded (single payer?) medical care paid for via taxation. That "free" assertion is where the unicorns come into play - I currently get "free" trash and recyclable pick-up but must pay a (city) tax for more than the cost of 'private' trash and recyclable pickup to get that "free" service.

 

[jmotivator]

Out of curiosity, why is the cost of everything medical related so much more expensive in the states? Do you not ever get tired of having your health used to extort you out of wild amounts of money, when compared to other places, by doctors and pharmaceutical companies? Wouldn't getting them under control make ANY medical system you end up adopting run better? Seems to me you guys ought to fix that before making any further changes.

It's a fairly complicated issue, and one that price point doesn't always explain. The issue in the US is that the cost of healthcare is, in effect, variable with your ability to pay.

Attempts to control that through government mandates (like forcing a uniform charge if you are a doctor who accepts Medicare/Medicaid), while also having the government actually pay out pennies on the dollar, has built a model where you get the case that you see in the OP. We have a universal health CARE system in the US, those of us with jobs pay huge money to cover the losses serving those who can't pay.

The interesting thing, though, is that the PRIVATE per-capita expense for health care, the portion of the US health care industry that most foreigners consider to be the entirety of the US health care market, is in fact about HALF of the total spending in the US for health care while covering the largest population. The other half of health care spending is public, government run programs.

We have enough money in US PUBLIC health care to afford the Canadian system with cash to spare.

 

[chuckiechan]

Today Vox continues its year-long dive into hospitals' ER billing practices with a doozy.

A $20,243 bike crash: Zuckerberg hospital’s aggressive tactics leave patients with big bills




An ER that's out-of-network for everybody with private insurance is really something.

Hmmm.... I wonder if we are getting the whole story. Most insurance companies have provisions for emergency treatment that guarantee emergency service at all hospitals. A broken arm is an emergency due to complications of arterial complications. I think someone should dig deeper.

 

[sangha]

Nope, there is no free medical care in Canada - there is state funded (single payer?) medical care paid for via taxation. That "free" assertion is where the unicorns come into play - I currently get "free" trash and recyclable pick-up but must pay a (city) tax for more than the cost of 'private' trash and recyclable pickup to get that "free" service.

Those whose income is so low it is not subject to income taxes get it for free, so yes, unicorns do exist

 

[sangha]

Hmmm.... I wonder if we are getting the whole story. Most insurance companies have provisions for emergency treatment that guarantee emergency service at all hospitals. A broken arm is an emergency due to complications of arterial complications. I think someone should dig deeper.

I know that my two Obamacare policies had that provision. As long as it is a genuine emergency, I am covered as if it is in-network.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Those whose income is so low it is not subject to income taxes get it for free, so yes, unicorns do exist

Yep, but those unicorns, like Santa Claus, only exist for some people - others know that they are playing the role of Santa Claus to place those "free" gifts under the tree.

 

[sangha]

Yep, but those unicorns, like Santa Claus, only exist for some people

IOW, they DO exist even though you said they do not

- others know that they are playing the role of Santa Claus to place those "free" gifts under the tree.

Just like everything else govt does that is financed with income and real estate taxes which is how it works in every developed nation.

 

[ttwtt78640]

IOW, they DO exist even though you said they do not


Just like everything else govt does that is financed with income and real estate taxes which is how it works in every developed nation.

Yet the level and number of income redistribution programs varies greatly by nation. Which nation has the "real" unicorns?

 

[sangha]

Yet the level and number of income redistribution programs varies greatly by nation. Which nation has the "real" unicorns?

You have gone from "they do not exist" to "some nations have more unicorns than others."

 

[ttwtt78640]

You have gone from "they do not exist" to "some nations have more unicorns than others."

Nope, I have exposed unicorns as simply being income redistribution programs under another name (label?).

 

[Threegoofs]

I know that my two Obamacare policies had that provision. As long as it is a genuine emergency, I am covered as if it is in-network.

Right. But the deal is that there IS no network... they dont contract with any private insurers.

 

[Threegoofs]

Nope, I have exposed unicorns as simply being income redistribution programs under another name (label?).

LOL.

Health care insurance is inherently a redistribution program.

Always.

Yay socialism, amirite?

 

[sangha]

Nope, I have exposed unicorns as simply being income redistribution programs under another name (label?).

You say that as if it is a bad thing.

But just to be clear, you said that there is no free health care, and I said there is. I was right, and you are wrong.

 

[sangha]

Right. But the deal is that there IS no network... they dont contract with any private insurers.

Correct. But under my plans --ie. this years and last-- I would be covered as if I had gone to an ER at an in-network hospital. IOW, my insurer would have to cover it.

 

[ttwtt78640]

LOL.

\Health care insurance is inherently a redistribution program.

Always.

Yay socialism, amirite?

Nope, insurance is a contractually mutual (risk?) pool - normally with contribution amounts based on actuarial risk factors or a fixed, per person, amount. Payouts, from that pool, are normally based on the (verified) occurrence of a rare, unexpected and expensive (contractually covered) event.

 

[Bullseye]

Today Vox continues its year-long dive into hospitals' ER billing practices with a doozy.

A $20,243 bike crash: Zuckerberg hospital’s aggressive tactics leave patients with big bills




An ER that's out-of-network for everybody with private insurance is really something.

Any specific reason why they don't accept private insurance?

 

[ttwtt78640]

You say that as if it is a bad thing.

But just to be clear, you said that there is no free health care, and I said there is. I was right, and you are wrong.

There is no "free" healthcare - the providers of that care are paid. Some may get their healthcare at no out of pocket cost and others, obviously, must make up for that by paying more than they otherwise would.

 

[sangha]

Nope, insurance is a contractually mutual (risk?) pool - normally with contribution amounts based on actuarial risk factors or a fixed, per person, amount. Payouts, from that pool, are normally based on the (verified) occurrence of a rare, unexpected and expensive (contractually covered) event.

And in the end, income is redistributed towards those with high health care costs.

 

[sangha]

There is no "free" healthcare - the providers of that care are paid. Some may get their healthcare at no out of pocket cost and others, obviously, must make up for that by paying more than they otherwise would.

It is free for the people who receive it.

In case you did not notice, that is what people mean when they use the term "free"

Or did you think that "free samples" did not cost anyone anything?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Any specific reason why they don't accept private insurance?

They do accept private insurance. Did you even read the OP? What they do not do is offer private insurance patients the same discounted billing rates as they do for public insurance patients.

 

[ttwtt78640]

And in the end, income is redistributed towards those with high health care costs.

Nope, unless insurance premium levels were based on income levels. There is as much chance of a richer insured person getting a claim paid (having high health care costs) as for a poorer insured person getting a claim paid from the common risk pool.

 

[chuckiechan]

I know that my two Obamacare policies had that provision. As long as it is a genuine emergency, I am covered as if it is in-network.

Back in the day Kaiser turned away ambulances leading to people dying. That was changed.

 

[sangha]

Nope, unless insurance premium levels were based on income levels.

Yes, if you and I both pay the same premium, because we are enrolled in the same health plan, but I receive 10x the amount of health care while you get none, then income is being redistributed.

The redistribution is not based on income, but it is still income redistribution. In this example, from you to me

There is as much chance of a richer insured person getting a claim paid (having high health care costs) as for a poorer insured person getting a claim paid from the common risk pool.

But in the end, regardless of risk, some people will incur health care expenses greater than what they pay in premiums for which the insurer will cover, and some will not. The latter will have some of their income redistributed to the former.

 

[Threegoofs]

Nope, insurance is a contractually mutual (risk?) pool - normally with contribution amounts based on actuarial risk factors or a fixed, per person, amount. Payouts, from that pool, are normally based on the (verified) occurrence of a rare, unexpected and expensive (contractually covered) event.

So everyone contributes, but only the sick (the needy) collect.