77 years of the scariest speech by a government official in history

[Tim the plumber]

This is probably the most serious discussion I've ever seen here. It's also one of the most complicated and, frankly, it's over my head.

But I thought it might help to say that I once read (or heard) someone speak about the importance for a society to identify an "ultimate evil" to which all other evil can be compared. Through the years since World War II, most of our society (and much of the world) has settled on giving Adolf Hitler that distinction.

But the point is that, once that "ultimate evil" is identified, nothing can be gained by saying that someone else was more evil, and in fact (as is happening on this thread) such a comparison can be taken to mean that the "ultimate evil" wasn't all that bad. Indeed, when you get into that lowest level of evilness, then such comparisons mean nothing--a point that Checkerboard made in post #26.

I'm not saying that this discussion is therefore pointless or can serve no useful purpose--any discussion of history is almost always educational and well worth the time--I'm just saying that, according to the writer or speaker I was citing, it might be just as well to keep that "ultimate evil" in place so that nobody can be accused of trying to elevate Hitler and (probably unintentionally) diminish the atrocities he and his movement brought about.

If I've missed the mark with this post, I apologize in advance, as this is indeed a complicated thread (to me, anyway).

Good point well made.

It is probably an aspect of me being a bit on the autistic side. Need for real/hard/physical facts rather than the higher level communication that is "ultimate evil".

Today humans are capable of building a disease that will wipe out all of us. That could happen.

For me there is generally a choice between things(political/social) which are less bad than the alternative and if you have a choice of stuff that is more good than the alternative you are doing well. Be happy.

So I do see Mao as far worse than Hitler. Still neither are the worst possible. I hope they are the worse we will ever see in modern times. (Gengis being worse than either)

 

[Rostocker]

There were plenty of Germans willing to commit mass murder as it turned out. The Ukrainian “auxiliaries” were closely controlled by the SS thugs.

The Ukrainians were the most Hardcore. They did some sick shit.

 

[Rostocker]

Nope, cause those towns “just” got the privilege of Allied troops rolling on through, crushing Germany’s fantasies of supremacy forever. Oh, and in the case of the Soviets, dishing out a little payback.

Forever? We already act with full supremacy again. Ask our greek colony.

Non Germans are there to serve.

 

[Tigerace117]

The Ukrainians were the most Hardcore. They did some sick shit.

The SS encouraged such “sick shit” and indulged in plenty of it themselves. They were the driving force behind the atrocities.....not that the “regular” Wehrmacht troops on the Eastern Front were any better.

 

[Tigerace117]

Forever? We already act with full supremacy again. Ask our greek colony.

Non Germans are there to serve.

Which is why the EU is falling apart.

You can’t even get the Hungarians to listen to you at this point.

 

[truthatallcost]

Second time you have mounted your desperate lead pipe apologetics, as if to try to normalize Hitler.
WTF is wrong with you anyway?

But wait!....there's more!

The Night of the Murdered Poets was the execution of thirteen Soviet Jews in the Lubyanka Prison in Moscow, Russian SFSR, Soviet Union on 12 August 1952. The arrests were first made in September 1948 and June 1949. All defendants were falsely accused of espionage and treason as well as many other crimes. After their arrests, they were tortured, beaten, and isolated for three years before being formally charged. There were five Yiddish writers among these defendants, all of whom were part of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee.

In an attempt to prevent Soviet jews from claiming that jewish suffering outweighed the suffering of their fellow Soviets, Stalin had the propagandists killed, save for Ehrenburg and Grossman, the two biggest Soviet propagandists of the era. Stalin's attempts at preventing Soviet suffering from being overshadowed by jewish narratives ultimately failed, and today nearly no one outside of Eastern Europe gives a toss about the tens of millions of Soviets who died, only das heilig juden.

Night of the Murdered Poets - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[truthatallcost]

Which is why the EU is falling apart.

You can’t even get the Hungarians to listen to you at this point.

Their statues aren't being toppled. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your country when your country is doing well. But there's something very, very wrong with doing that while your country is sick and dying.

 

[Tigerace117]

Their statues aren't being toppled. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your country when your country is doing well. But there's something very, very wrong with doing that while your country is sick and dying.

There, thankfully, are very few— if any statues of your heroes: Hitler and Himmler and Eichmann and Codreanu— too topple, because the majority of decent people across the globe know them for the scum they were. Germany didn’t “do well“ under the Nazis—their “economic recovery” was a house of cards reliant on constantly invading and conquering other nations, which lead to a general European war and Germany being bombed to oblivion.

The surest sign a country is ”sick and dying” is when Holocaust deniers and fascists are allowed to freely spew their poison.

 

[truthatallcost]

There, thankfully, are very few— if any statues of your heroes: Hitler and Himmler and Eichmann and Codreanu— too topple, because the majority of decent people across the globe know them for the scum they were. Germany didn’t “do well“ under the Nazis—their “economic recovery” was a house of cards reliant on constantly invading and conquering other nations, which lead to a general European war and Germany being bombed to oblivion.

The surest sign a country is ”sick and dying” is when Holocaust deniers and fascists are allowed to freely spew their poison.

Oh really? The related picture shows the two different front entrance plaques from the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp.
Plaque #1 was removed because it told a little fib that wasn't defendable anymore by the 1990s. But since you only believe what's socially and politically acceptable for you to believe, had you lived in the era of 1945-1990, you would have believed 4 million were killed at Auschwitz-Birkenau. And you would have been wrong, but you would be convinced you were right. Since you don't believe that 'deniers' should be allowed to challenge the historical record, you would have behaved like a fascist in opposing their attempt to correct the record.

 

[Tigerace117]

View attachment 67300738

Oh really? The related picture shows the two different front entrance plaques from the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp.
Plaque #1 was removed because it told a little fib that wasn't defendable anymore by the 1990s. But since you only believe what's socially and politically acceptable for you to believe, had you lived in the era of 1945-1990, you would have believed 4 million were killed at Auschwitz-Birkenau. And you would have been wrong, but you would be convinced you were right.

Oh look, the Holocaust denier is exposing himself again. You are aware that your heroes desperately tried to cover up all evidence of the atrocities committed at the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp system, and therefore establishing the formal death toll took time and substantial scholarly work.......right? Your “evidence” therefore doesn’t actually prove.....anything. The four million number was based on an estimate from the immediate aftermath of the war, whereas the later number is the result of decades of work with German records.

I don’t believe the blatant lies told by Holocaust deniers like yourself, mostly because, you know, you constantly spew blatant lies.

 

[truthatallcost]

Oh look, the Holocaust denier is exposing himself again. You are aware that your heroes desperately tried to cover up all evidence of the atrocities committed at the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp system, and therefore establishing the formal death toll took time and substantial scholarly work.......right? Your “evidence” therefore doesn’t actually prove.....anything. The four million number was based on an estimate from the immediate aftermath of the war, whereas the later number is the result of decades of work with German records.

I don’t believe the blatant lies told by Holocaust deniers like yourself, mostly because, you know, you constantly spew blatant lies.

Which blatant lie did I tell there Tigerace? Go ahead, list then in chronological order. I'll wait.

 

[Tigerace117]

Which blatant lie did I tell there Tigerace? Go ahead, list then in chronological order. I'll wait.

Oh look, the Holocaust denier is now trying to play the victim card after being called out on his lies. Your entire premise is a lie from the start, and then you spewed even more lies in desperation.

 

[truthatallcost]

Oh look, the Holocaust denier is now trying to play the victim card after being called out on his lies. Your entire premise is a lie from the start, and then you spewed even more lies in desperation.

My premise was that historians get it wrong sometimes, which isn't a lie. You can't name any lies in post #59. You're dismissed.

 

[Tigerace117]

My premise was that historians get it wrong sometimes, which isn't a lie. You can't name any lies in post #59. You're dismissed.

The Holocaust denier is now scurrying back under his rock, desperate to escape. Noted.

 

[truthatallcost]

The Holocaust denier is now scurrying back under his rock, desperate to escape. Noted.

Tiger rants about holocaust denial and LIES LIES LIES
When asked to produce evidence of holocaust denial and lies, he can't
Tiger then claims victory

Cue the theme to the opening of the Special Olympics, tiger is about to say something again...

 

[Tigerace117]

Tiger rants about holocaust denial and LIES LIES LIES
When asked to produce evidence of holocaust denial and lies, he can't
Tiger then claims victory

Cue the theme to the opening of the Special Olympics, tiger is about to say something again...

Oh look, the Holocaust denier is humiliating himself again. Yawn.