The Giant Noodle
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The teachers that are crap got canned. Of course the Teacher Union is complaining :roll:
I think what they did is AWESOME! And should be comended! If you arent doing your job or arent doing it at least to par.... Buh Bye.
VIDEO: msnbc.com Video Player
Maybe the policy is different in Maryland, but here, teachers are fired based on experience not quality, so if I were you, I wouldn't say the teachers who were fired were bad teachers unless you know from personal experience.
Rhee Tackles Classroom Challenge - TIMETeachers got tenure rights in the early 20th century to protect them against meddling politicians and school-board members who treated their jobs as patronage pawns. But the rationale is plainly antiquated. Today dozens of federal and state laws protect teachers (and other people) from arbitrary firing. But most teachers still receive tenure almost automatically. In fact, even before they get tenure, they are rarely let go. Schools spend millions of dollars evaluating teachers, but principals have little incentive to shake up their staffs, and so most teachers end up scoring near the top. "What I'm finding is that our principals are ridiculously--like ridiculously--conflict-averse," Rhee says. "They know someone is not so good, and they want to give him a 'Meets expectations' anyway because they don't want to deal with the person coming into the office and yelling and getting the parents riled up."
I think they would have built in measures for technology and other resource troubles. I however disagree that the system should take the home life, economic status, or IQ into account. This just builds in ready made excuses. They should catch anyone who has a mental disorder and place them in special classes. But the rest of the students have to tested against national standards regardless of their economic standing or family.
This is the problem with the educational system that we have now. We coddle kids from an early age. We make excuse for them. Oh tommy is poor so he obviously cant. Teacher pass him along and then he gets out of school and cant compete in this US job market. These excuses have allowed substandard teachers to be employed because it is always the kids fault. No, IMHO we need to say to both kids and to teachers that X is the standard and you need to live up to it. If you fail you fail. Teachers who fail should find new employment. And kids who fail need to realize just what that failure means to their quality of life and future.
You didnt watch the video... DID you???
I however disagree that the system should take the home life, economic status, or IQ into account. This just builds in ready made excuses. They should catch anyone who has a mental disorder and place them in special classes.
Many places don't stream students though. Most classes are mixed and a teacher can get all kinds of students with varying abilities that can be extremely low. Further, judging a teacher poorly when they might (and often truly do) have students that are completely unmotivated, have low IQ's or have horrible home lives and/or unsupportive families is absolutely unfair. Education is MANDATED and thrust upon the teacher. The teacher has no say in who they get to teach or not.
Bodhisattva said:Many places don't stream students though. Most classes are mixed and a teacher can get all kinds of students with varying abilities that can be extremely low. Further, judging a teacher poorly when they might (and often truly do) have students that are completely unmotivated, have low IQ's or have horrible home lives and/or unsupportive families is absolutely unfair. Education is MANDATED and thrust upon the teacher. The teacher has no say in who they get to teach or not.
Many places don't stream students though. Most classes are mixed and a teacher can get all kinds of students with varying abilities that can be extremely low. Further, judging a teacher poorly when they might (and often truly do) have students that are completely unmotivated, have low IQ's or have horrible home lives and/or unsupportive families is absolutely unfair. Education is MANDATED and thrust upon the teacher. The teacher has no say in who they get to teach or not.
Most moderately sized and large school systems, even most small one, have mentally challenged separate classes because of ADA. All other students should be considered equal. So, teaching is a career. Nothing is thrust upon them. They are free to pick the career or not. If they don't like the evaluation, then leave. Students shouldn't be excused for those things you listed and neither should teachers. Further, I don't think want the video describes is judging a teach poorly. Grades, evaluations, observations, and experience all seem to be factors when they judged the teachers.
For the students, if they are unmotivated and fail, then so be it. Low IQ and horrible home lives are just excuses. Any person who is above the mentally challenged line can succeed independent of home life.
Of course they have mentally challenged blocks… when did I ever say otherwise?
All other students should be considered equal? Have you ever visited an AP Class and compared it to a remedial one? People are obviously NOT equal. You have no argument there.
Of course teaching is a career that teachers can leave if they do not like it, this is obvious. Many teachers leave teaching in the first five years due to the conditions and the pay. Fine. This issue is not being evaluated; it is how being evaluated is described in this thread. Stick to the point.
Bad teachers should be fired, but many people think that a majority of the teachers are bad and that the education system is substandard since these people lack perspective. Are you one of these people?
Low IQ’s and horrible home lives are facts, not excuses. That being said, they will fail and that is fine. The world needs ditch diggers and trash collectors, and I am certainly not going to do either.
There is succeeding and then there is being judged as successful… big difference.
I am not saying that all people are equal. I am saying that all children not mentally handicapped should be judged as equal based on test. If a student is behind it is that students responsibility to get help, not the school (although the school may also offer help). How these teachers are being evaluated is appropriate in this case and if those teachers don't like it they can leave. Frankly, with a abysmal record of most inner city school system, I would say that yes most teachers in these systems are bad or at least are not preparing themselves adequately to do the job.
And again, low IQ and horrible home lives may be facts but they are also excuses used so that people can feel better about themselves. In the end, they are not a deficiencies which hinder education. Will and time trump both and students need to find these two things in order to succeed.
Well, wouldn't it be kinda easy to teach kids that are on the other end of that spectrum? :thinking Wouldn't you expect a teacher to have to try harder with the difficult cases?
I am not saying that all people are equal. I am saying that all children not mentally handicapped should be judged as equal based on test. If a student is behind it is that students responsibility to get help, not the school (although the school may also offer help). How these teachers are being evaluated is appropriate in this case and if those teachers don't like it they can leave. Frankly, with a abysmal record of most inner city school system, I would say that yes most teachers in these systems are bad or at least are not preparing themselves adequately to do the job.
And again, low IQ and horrible home lives may be facts but they are also excuses used so that people can feel better about themselves. In the end, they are not a deficiencies which hinder education. Will and time trump both and students need to find these two things in order to succeed.
Inner citiy schools have external factors that are far beyond any teacher or school to solve in the few hours a week that they have a student in a class. That being said, it seems that we agree that students need to take responsiblity and that, in turn, it is not the fault of the teacher or school if they are presented with unmotivated students or families not respecting education and the process of education.
were those 700 teachers terminated in DC let go because they were ineffective teachers or where they discharged because they were charged with teaching the weakest students?
You can't blame the kid if the parents are not making them do what they're supposed to do. Home life plays a huge part in a kid's success. Some kids may have more fortitude to push on without that guidance but you can't blame a kid with crappy parents for not performing.
On the other hand you can't blame the teachers right off the bat. There are bad teachers out there but more good ones than bad.
I doubt 700 teachers are bad. This looks to me as if the teachers are being used as a scapegoat.
were those 700 teachers terminated in DC let go because they were ineffective teachers or where they discharged because they were charged with teaching the weakest students?
there will be situations where crappy students are sent from supportive homes and where good students emerge from crappy homes. but by and large, the primary indicator of a child's success in school can be measured by the quality of the home which prepares the kid for school, and encourages a good educationI think you can blame the kids because it is not the job of the parent to preform in school.
only if kids are born with a gene which innately prepares them to be educated; otherwise, it is the parent's job to see that the student is ready and prepared to learnThat job is the kids.
if the system has a sound methodology to determine which of the teachers are poor, then we have agreement. my concern is that the teachers are being fired because they happened to be assigned low classes of slow performers. why would the teachers then be responsible for the poor achievement of under prepared and undermotivated kids?In a system with about 4000 teachers and about 59% graduation rate, I think it is acceptable to at least let the school system decide if these teachers are bad or not.
there will be situations where crappy students are sent from supportive homes and where good students emerge from crappy homes. but by and large, the primary indicator of a child's success in school can be measured by the quality of the home which prepares the kid for school, and encourages a good education
so, in many instances, the parent IS to blame for the lack of success of the student
if the kid is not being fed properly, is not getting enough sleep, does not have the learning tools required, and is not being coached/encouraged, then it IS largely the parent's lack of involvement which has caused the student to be unsuccessful
if the system has a sound methodology to determine which of the teachers are poor, then we have agreement. my concern is that the teachers are being fired because they happened to be assigned low classes of slow performers. why would the teachers then be responsible for the poor achievement of under prepared and undermotivated kids?
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