7 ways to bring back the PC: Fix or dump Windows 8

[sangha]

And the ones required to use fancy software will be the last to switch. But most offices don't need anything more than the basic package with e-mail and Office, which Open Office replaces fairly well, IMO.

Small businesses could change without that much effort, but why would they? Besides, small business doesn't drive the market or the new technology. It's the big corps that drive it.

Businesses like H&R Block, for example, that have their own software could probably save quite a bit switching to Linux. Seriously, how much do you think it would cost them to re-write their software that no one else uses compared to what they'd save on M$ licensing in a couple of years? I'd think their biggest problem would be finding IT people to trouble-shoot Linux, which could be why they haven't done it. I know I couldn't but I didn't have any problem with Windows even though I had no formal training.

It would not only cost the millions, it would be a potential nightmare. For one thing, it would take years to re-write their s/w. Then, who's going to write the software? No their own staff, because their own staff used MS development tools to write the s/w. Not people they bring in from outside, because those people don't know H&R's business. It would take years and years, and millions of dollars, and while their doing this, their current staff will jump ship because they'll see that their employer is getting ready to get rid of them. Then who's going to support their current s/w?

Then there's issues like testing the new s/w. Who's going to do that? That's not cheap either. It takes a lot of time. They'll also have to change/upgrade their hardware. There are costs associated with that. There's a whole range of issues, and each one if wrought with the potential for a disaster, so why would any IT Mgr in their right mind risk their job and career to start a multi-year project with no guarantee of success or savings, in order to use a OS that offers less functionality?

And this is just one corp that is relatively small. Now take a really large and complicated corp, like Johnson and Johnson, and multiply these problems by 1000.

However, I don't expect any of it to happen soon. Windows has a LOT of momentum. The next "PC" OS is going to be the one that interfaces best with mobile devices. It may not be Linux but at the rate M$ is going, it isn't going to be them, either.

Windows 8 is designed to present a uniform environment for developing apps that work on a wide range of hardware platforms, including mobile devices. MS will continue to enhance that ability. The UNIX world isn't even close to having the sort of support for application developers that Windows has.

 

[Fisher]

That was a completely different time and situation. It was the beginning of the computer "revolution".

Now, businesses have trillions of dollars invested in software that took them years and years to develop. They're not going to toss all that software and infrastructure because Win8 doesn't have a start button.

They don't need to. Even if a computer only comes with Win8, they have the option of rolling back to an earlier version of windows if they so desire. The problem with windows is that there are so many updates that they bog down computers quickly forcing people to buy new computers every few years. Regardless, windows will always be the business standard.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Small businesses could change without that much effort, but why would they? Besides, small business doesn't drive the market or the new technology. It's the big corps that drive it.

And most big corp computers don't need much more than the basics including office.

It would not only cost the millions, it would be a potential nightmare. For one thing, it would take years to re-write their s/w. Then, who's going to write the software? No their own staff, because their own staff used MS development tools to write the s/w. Not people they bring in from outside, because those people don't know H&R's business. It would take years and years, and millions of dollars, and while their doing this, their current staff will jump ship because they'll see that their employer is getting ready to get rid of them. Then who's going to support their current s/w?

Then there's issues like testing the new s/w. Who's going to do that? That's not cheap either. It takes a lot of time. They'll also have to change/upgrade their hardware. There are costs associated with that. There's a whole range of issues, and each one if wrought with the potential for a disaster, so why would any IT Mgr in their right mind risk their job and career to start a multi-year project with no guarantee of success or savings, in order to use a OS that offers less functionality?

And this is just one corp that is relatively small. Now take a really large and complicated corp, like Johnson and Johnson, and multiply these problems by 1000.

It's mostly just database manipulation & storage with some number crunching thrown in and an easy way to swap & add formulas for each line from year to year. (I suspect they dump the Access data in and out of Excel routines for computations.) Hell, given some time I could have written it and I'm no expert. (I know, to some extent that does prove your point but any good db programmer could most likely do it in whatever program they'd like to use.) CAD software is a pain to replace and there are some other large areas that would no doubt take a LOT of time but, hey, AutoCAD managed the switch from DOS to Windows95 to NT and, trust me, those weren't easy transitions.

Change & upgrade hardware? Doubtful in their case and big businesses have life cycles they use for updating anyway. Anyone would be stupid to change everything at the same time. And, again, in most cases it just the basics that are needed.

I'd be willing to bet something like J&J doesn't have an overall system in place. I'm not even sure each division has it's own overall system. When you get to monsters like that it gets fragmented with files being exchanged between departments in specified formats --- and cloud computing may kill a lot of that, anyway. How complex does a machine need to be to work and share data on the cloud?

Windows 8 is designed to present a uniform environment for developing apps that work on a wide range of hardware platforms, including mobile devices. MS will continue to enhance that ability. The UNIX world isn't even close to having the sort of support for application developers that Windows has.

I can see the cloud changing that and servers becoming more important, again. We seem to be heading back toward terminals with mobile devices also acting as terminals. Monster programs like AutoCAD won't be replaced anytime soon but there's already a good file exchange format for CAD, *.dfx, and it's been around for decades. I suspect other monster programs are similar. Certainly, the *.doc extension is nothing new.

 

[jamesrage]

Its ALMOST Official. Windows 8 is dead. 7 ways to bring back the PC  - GadgetBox on NBCNews.com

This is why I am not in rush to run out and get every new OS that comes out. What ever OS I get is what comes with a new PC I buy.

 

[sangha]

And most big corp computers don't need much more than the basics including office.

I'm going to take a guess and say you've never worked in the IT dept of a major corporation because your answer is total nonsense

It's mostly just database manipulation & storage with some number crunching thrown in and an easy way to swap & add formulas for each line from year to year. (I suspect they dump the Access data in and out of Excel routines for computations.) Hell, given some time I could have written it and I'm no expert. (I know, to some extent that does prove your point but any good db programmer could most likely do it in whatever program they'd like to use.) CAD software is a pain to replace and there are some other large areas that would no doubt take a LOT of time but, hey, AutoCAD managed the switch from DOS to Windows95 to NT and, trust me, those weren't easy transitions.

Umm, no. Not even close. They might use Access as a database for the tax software that they sell, but if they use Excel at all, then they embed it into their apps as a control and control it through an API, something they would not be able to do is they switched to Linux. AFAIK, Linux doesn't offer a spreadsheet control that can be controlled by a programmer through an application.

But H&R Block does a lot more than just sell tax prep apps. They have offices all over the nation. They have software to track all these offices, their employees , their sales, work hours, profitability, expenses, etc.

They also have a bank, which offers savings accts, CDs, IRAs, etc. They also do loans. So they have to track their clients, their accts, their balances, interest, payments on loans, credit scores, etc

If you think they can handle that with a bunch of Access databases and Excel spreadsheets, then I don't know where to begin in order to correct that perception. Maybe you could consider how corporate HQ is going to figure out the business is going overall if this data is spread out in hundreds of Access db's and Excel spreadsheets in hundreds of local offices?

Change & upgrade hardware? Doubtful in their case and big businesses have life cycles they use for updating anyway. Anyone would be stupid to change everything at the same time. And, again, in most cases it just the basics that are needed.

That is actually true, and does help with such a conversion, but at the same time it complicates things by raising compatibility issues.

I'd be willing to bet something like J&J doesn't have an overall system in place. I'm not even sure each division has it's own overall system. When you get to monsters like that it gets fragmented with files being exchanged between departments in specified formats --- and cloud computing may kill a lot of that, anyway. How complex does a machine need to be to work and share data on the cloud?

Exactly! The fact is, at corps like J&J no one person knows what their software does or how all the different pieces interact with each other. So how is someone going to re-write the software when no one even knows what the s/w does?

And the cloud doesn't help with this. What the cloud does do is change the location of the files (including software files) from an in-house server onto a server run by the company running the cloud. It also relieves the owner of the files from maintenance tasks like keeping the servers running and performing backups.

What is working to solve the problem of all these files running around is products like SharePoint and Integrations Services, but guess what?....They don't run on Linux.

I can see the cloud changing that and servers becoming more important, again. We seem to be heading back toward terminals with mobile devices also acting as terminals. Monster programs like AutoCAD won't be replaced anytime soon but there's already a good file exchange format for CAD, *.dfx, and it's been around for decades. I suspect other monster programs are similar. Certainly, the *.doc extension is nothing new.

See my remarks about the cloud (above). And AutoCAD is one program, and not a very important one to most large corps. I'm not sure why you even mention it, but the company that makes AutoCAD could always put out a Linux version, but that's not a critical issue. The critical issue is the software corps have developed in-house.

 

[MoSurveyor]

I'm going to take a guess and say you've never worked in the IT dept of a major corporation because your answer is total nonsense

No, I worked in a big company (5k+) for 25 years and got to know a lot of people across all departments. Most machines didn't have special programs on them. The technical guys (like me and not IT) had special programs but no one else really did.

Umm, no. Not even close. They might use Access as a database for the tax software that they sell, but if they use Excel at all, then they embed it into their apps as a control and control it through an API, something they would not be able to do is they switched to Linux. AFAIK, Linux doesn't offer a spreadsheet control that can be controlled by a programmer through an application.

But H&R Block does a lot more than just sell tax prep apps. They have offices all over the nation. They have software to track all these offices, their employees , their sales, work hours, profitability, expenses, etc.

They also have a bank, which offers savings accts, CDs, IRAs, etc. They also do loans. So they have to track their clients, their accts, their balances, interest, payments on loans, credit scores, etc

I've worked for H&R Block in IT support though that was a few years ago (1999-2000) and I was talking about their in-house programs. I've never owned their personal software. I just took a WAG at how they performed the number crunching. I can guarantee they used VBasic to assemble their main data entry and processing screens, so I would have no reason to expect them to export that from Access since it's essentially the same program. I don't know what they use for corporate accounting.

If you think they can handle that with a bunch of Access databases and Excel spreadsheets, then I don't know where to begin in order to correct that perception. Maybe you could consider how corporate HQ is going to figure out the business is going overall if this data is spread out in hundreds of Access db's and Excel spreadsheets in hundreds of local offices?

A huge chunk of offices are franchises except H&R doesn't require you to buy hardware from them (though you have that option). All the offices use the same software bundle from HQ for tax prep and accounting. I don't know if they require office management accounting be done on their software but I doubt it. What do they care as long as they get their percent from the franchise?

That is actually true, and does help with such a conversion, but at the same time it complicates things by raising compatibility issues.

We had those problems with M$ sometimes. too. That's why it was common to export using a common file type (like *.doc in Word95 format) instead of sending the raw document type.

Exactly! The fact is, at corps like J&J no one person knows what their software does or how all the different pieces interact with each other. So how is someone going to re-write the software when no one even knows what the s/w does?

And the cloud doesn't help with this. What the cloud does do is change the location of the files (including software files) from an in-house server onto a server run by the company running the cloud. It also relieves the owner of the files from maintenance tasks like keeping the servers running and performing backups.

What is working to solve the problem of all these files running around is products like SharePoint and Integrations Services, but guess what?....They don't run on Linux.

I'm sure those products could be adapted.

See my remarks about the cloud (above). And AutoCAD is one program, and not a very important one to most large corps. I'm not sure why you even mention it, but the company that makes AutoCAD could always put out a Linux version, but that's not a critical issue. The critical issue is the software corps have developed in-house.

I used AutoCAD because that's what I know, intimately, and it's similar to other, large software packages as far as deployment, compatibility issues, & etc. go. Maybe M$ has got it's act together since 2007 but it was a PITA to switch OS's before that time. Not only AutoCAD but many other programs we had were just screwed, it seemed, with every new release. Sometimes even an update Tuesday would make things act funny.

Our company didn't develop that many in-house programs and they're all small. Anything big got bought off-shelf or farmed out - like the switch from our old server based HR system (decades old) to PeopleSoft. But PeopleSoft wasn't installed on every machine. We accessed it through the LAN. Only the local timekeepers were a little different and that's just because they accessed a different section with special-access passwords.

 

[sangha]

No, I worked in a big company for 25 years and got to know a lot of people across all departments. Most machines didn't have special programs on them. The technical guys (like me) had special programs but no one else really did.

That's right. Most desktop PC's in large corps don't have any special programs on them. They have a web browser which they use to access the in-house developed s/w.

I've worked for H&R Block in IT support though that was a few years ago (1999-2000) and I was talking about their in-house programs. I've never owned their personal software. I just took a WAG at how they performed the number crunching. I can guarantee they used VBasic to assemble their main data entry and processing screens, so I would have no reason to expect them to export that from Access since it's essentially the same program. I don't know what they use for corporate accounting.

Yes, there's a good chance they used VB or some other MS language. These languages can take controls from other MS products, like an Excel spreadsheet, and embed them in the app, so the programmers don't have to write the code that makes a spreadsheet work. If they go to some other OS, they won't be able to use that and there's nothing in Linux like that so they'll have to write a spreadsheet themselves. Not a simple task.

Also, the database isn't that important. It's one of the easier parts of many applications. However, I bet there's a good chance that they use some other database for more centralized functions because Access doesn't support functionality like data warehousing and business intelligence, etc, which are important for higher level mgmt. these days.

A huge chunk of offices are franchises except H&R doesn't require you to buy hardware from them (though you have that option). All the offices use the same software bundle from HQ for tax prep and accounting. I don't know if they require office management accounting be done on their software but I doubt it. What do they care as long as they get their percent from the franchise?

Regardless, H&R corp HQ has to keep track of those offices that are franchises, and for the ones that don't, they have to track all the things I mentioned.

In addition, H&R Block is not a huge corp. Think of corps like J&J, Citibank, GE, the airlines reservation system, NYSE, etc. Their systems are incredibly complex

We had those problems with M$ sometimes. That's why it was common to export using a common file type instead of sending the raw document type.

Corps don't want to export and import files if they don't have to. They want their systems to be able to interface with each other programmatically and pull data when desired, or push data based on "subscription". Linux doesn't offer the tools to do this, and even if it did, the corps programmers would have to re-write the s/w that does this.

I'm sure those products could be adapted.

Sure, any company willing to spend millions of dollars and man-hours could "re-create the wheel", but why would they do that when they can buy the "wheel" for much less from MS?

I used AutoCAD because that's what I know, intimately, and it's similar to other, large software packages as far as deployment, compatibility issues, & etc. go. Maybe M$ has got it's act together since 2007 but it was a PITA to switch OS's before that time. Not only AutoCAD but many other programs we had were just screwed, it seemed, with every new release. Sometimes even an update Tuesday would make things act funny.

AutoCAD isn't a critical app for most data-centric business apps, particularly when talking about large corporations. The critical apps are in-house developed custom software which have been developed and modified over the course of decades.

Our company didn't develop that many in-house programs and they're all small. Anything big got bought off-shelf or farmed out - like the switch from our old server based HR system (decades old) to PeopleSoft. But PeopleSoft wasn't installed on every machine. We accessed it through the LAN. Only the local timekeepers were a little different and that's just because they accessed a different section with special-access passwords. We employed 5k+ people (still do, I guess, but I'm semi-retired and don't keep track anymore).

Yes, many businesses, included the largest of corps, buy "off the shelf" s/w for some functions. However, for many of their needs, there are no such pgms on the market. The big issue for many of these corps is getting data from their in-house developed apps *and* their off-the-shelf apps into a third in-house developed app that's used by upper mgmt. for strategic planning. These type of apps use development tools provided by vendors like MS, like Visual Studio, SQL Server Business Intelligence and Reporting Services. There are no Linux equivalents that I know of.

As an OS, there's nothing inherently "wrong" with Linux. However, OS functionality is just one small part of what a business needs from its' IT dept. Without apps, an OS is nearly useless, and without development tools, it's hard to develop apps. This is where Linux fails in comparison to MS.

 

[beerftw]

Its ALMOST Official. Windows 8 is dead. 7 ways to bring back the PC  - GadgetBox on NBCNews.com

ive had windows 8 for a while,but lately its had a memory loss problem.whenever the screensaver comes on,it seems to load multiple versions of windows 8,and my 3 gigs of ram and 4 gigs of video ram dissapear to idling.ive contacted microsoft and said other users have had the problem but its not widespread enough to deal with since it only affects a fraction of the users.


to those who say microsoft will still hold business,quite wrong.almost every business i know refuses to adopt windows 8 becauseits not business friendly,and without addon programs requires retraining people,but those arent big issues,as already pointed out windows 8 caters to touchscreen single function taks,while previous windows catered to multitasking,which is highly beneficial to business.

its like trying to convince a business to drop its ford ranger for a model t,but calling it an upgrade because that model t has some cool digital features,but yet cant do anything practicalas good as what they need.

 

[beerftw]

The way it went down is that Microsoft (which owned DOS) licensed it cost free to IBM while reserving its right to sell it to others. IBM never owned DOS.

microsoft didnt own dos,they only owned ms-dos,there were numerous competing dosoperating systemsbefore and after,most dos systems were cross compatible with eachother,and only failed with the creation of windows,which required specifically msdos to run.,when windows 3.1 came out,it couldnt run on any other dos without modification,as it ran on microsoft exclusive code.while a game that was dos compatible ran on any dos computer no matter who produced it,solong as dependencies were met.

 

[ksu_aviator]

The only thing worse than windows is mac. I stick with pcs because they are cheaper and better than anything apple is producing.

 

[Mycroft]

ive had windows 8 for a while,but lately its had a memory loss problem.whenever the screensaver comes on,it seems to load multiple versions of windows 8,and my 3 gigs of ram and 4 gigs of video ram dissapear to idling.ive contacted microsoft and said other users have had the problem but its not widespread enough to deal with since it only affects a fraction of the users.


to those who say microsoft will still hold business,quite wrong.almost every business i know refuses to adopt windows 8 becauseits not business friendly,and without addon programs requires retraining people,but those arent big issues,as already pointed out windows 8 caters to touchscreen single function taks,while previous windows catered to multitasking,which is highly beneficial to business.

its like trying to convince a business to drop its ford ranger for a model t,but calling it an upgrade because that model t has some cool digital features,but yet cant do anything practicalas good as what they need.

I have a hard time believing you've used Win8 more than an hour...otherwise there is no way you would make that highlighted statement.

btw, I didn't think anyone used screensavers anymore. That's like keeping a campfire going in your backyard to do your cooking on.

 

[Aderleth]

Eventually Windows 8 will go the way of the other windows misses.

Agreed. Windows 7 was a perfectly functional product. I don't know why they felt the need to **** it up entirely.

 

[sangha]

Agreed. Windows 7 was a perfectly functional product. I don't know why they felt the need to **** it up entirely.

The architecture of Win8 makes it easier to develop apps for the desk-top that will run on a mobile device with just a little modification (mainly centered around the fact that the interface is much smaller)

 

[Caine]

I rarely have time for games, Pete. I spend most of my time researching, writing, and reading.

^ Funless nerd.

Its a joke.... don't get butthurt.

 

[Fisher]

Agreed. Windows 7 was a perfectly functional product. I don't know why they felt the need to **** it up entirely.

Because they are feeling increasingly pressured on the touch screen stuff before Apple gets the whole thing locked up from design rights to the code would be my guess.

 

[Caine]

I am really hoping we don't go to Win8 at work. Task switching is absolutely vital, and this would just cripple it. I still miss my XP-style task bar. Honestly, I'm jealous of the people who still have XP on their computers.

Linux at home. I jumped off the Windows train when it got to Vista. Just so done. No problems since.



Anyone who can use Windows 7 can use desktop Linux in under 10 minutes. They can also install it in under 10 minutes. It will come with everything most people need, including an office suite that resembles the much-missed layout of earlier WinOffice suites.

But for those of us who play many popular retail games..... we sadly still need Windows.

Its near impossible to get most games to work optimally under the WINE system...... and these game manufacutors aren't making Linux releases....... and my ass isn't switching back and forth between operating systems because, frankly....

 

[beerftw]

I have a hard time believing you've used Win8 more than an hour...otherwise there is no way you would make that highlighted statement.

ive had it for a few months now,and the only way it caters to multitasking is if you avoid metro and use the old desktop,and add the start button,sorry if you dont feel things like control panel were too needed for windows users,but id rather not play a game of hide and seek because someone thought 10 minutes of work was better than 5 seconds on a fricken start button.


i have not seen a single person to date other than microsoft fanboys praqise the missing start button,pretty much every normal windows user is pisser,as well as mac and linux users,not to mention every time you minimize somehing with the windows key,it takes you to metro,then you need to click desktop,then wait for it to load.


linux tried the same experiment with unity on ubuntu,it turned the number one absolutely uncompeted champ of linux into a second rate linux compared to linux mint,which provided the old desktop setup with compatibility with gnome 3 apps.considering the people there rejected the new idea,just as they have with windows 8,its only clear its not good,you can try and defend it day and night,but its like defending how amodel t does everything a modern car does,sure it does everything,but alot slower and a crapload less convenient.

 

[beerftw]

But for those of us who play many popular retail games..... we sadly still need Windows.

Its near impossible to get most games to work optimally under the WINE system...... and these game manufacutors aren't making Linux releases....... and my ass isn't switching back and forth between operating systems because, frankly....

right now i have 2 computers,one with bsd and the other with windows,before that i would always dual boot,windows for games and windows only stuff like internet explorer specific sites,and linux or bsd for pretty much everything else.

 

[Aderleth]

Because they are feeling increasingly pressured on the touch screen stuff before Apple gets the whole thing locked up from design rights to the code would be my guess.

I'm pretty sure you're right about that. However, I think it's a mistake. They're not going to be able to compete with Apple re: touchscreens. Apple excels at that sort of thing way beyond the curve. Microsoft still has the market share, so they should play to their strengths (e.g. compatibility with most software and hardware, etc).

 

[Mycroft]

It seems to me that quite a lot of people think of Win8 as being that tiled interface.

Believe me, Win8 is all that...but it is also much more than that. Everything you did on Win7 you can do on Win8...except play around with Aero and run gadgets. I kind of miss the cool looks of Aero, but I got over it being gone. MS discontinued supporting gadgets a long time ago and there are apps that'll do most of what gadgets used to do.

 

[Caine]

right now i have 2 computers,one with bsd and the other with windows,before that i would always dual boot,windows for games and windows only stuff like internet explorer specific sites,and linux or bsd for pretty much everything else.

See video link above.........

 

[beerftw]

See video link above.........

i understand you dont got time for that,but alot of people do,alot of people stopped relying on one os to fullfill their neededs as no one os ever has.

 

[Aderleth]

It seems to me that quite a lot of people think of Win8 as being that tiled interface.

Believe me, Win8 is all that...but it is also much more than that. Everything you did on Win7 you can do on Win8...except play around with Aero and run gadgets. I kind of miss the cool looks of Aero, but I got over it being gone. MS discontinued supporting gadgets a long time ago and there are apps that'll do most of what gadgets used to do.

I agree that most people think of the tiled interface as the sum total of Windows 8, and I agree that that's not really accurate. However...

1) The tiled interface sucks, so far as I can tell, so why bother screwing with it at all? If the primary difference between Windows 7 and 8 is this useless tile interface (and I have played with it a bit - not extensively - and so far it sucks), why invest in such a thing?

2) I'm very concerned about what it (Windows 8, not the tile interface) might do as far as backwards compatibility with existing software, and most especially with games. Microsoft has a spectacularly bad track record with such things.

 

[Mycroft]

ive had it for a few months now,and the only way it caters to multitasking is if you avoid metro and use the old desktop,and add the start button,sorry if you dont feel things like control panel were too needed for windows users,but id rather not play a game of hide and seek because someone thought 10 minutes of work was better than 5 seconds on a fricken start button.


i have not seen a single person to date other than microsoft fanboys praqise the missing start button,pretty much every normal windows user is pisser,as well as mac and linux users,not to mention every time you minimize somehing with the windows key,it takes you to metro,then you need to click desktop,then wait for it to load.


linux tried the same experiment with unity on ubuntu,it turned the number one absolutely uncompeted champ of linux into a second rate linux compared to linux mint,which provided the old desktop setup with compatibility with gnome 3 apps.considering the people there rejected the new idea,just as they have with windows 8,its only clear its not good,you can try and defend it day and night,but its like defending how amodel t does everything a modern car does,sure it does everything,but alot slower and a crapload less convenient.

I use the traditional desktop 85% of the time, but I don't avoid the Modern UI, either. I switch back and forth as necessary.

Your "Model T" analogy doesn't hold true. A better analogy would be to compare a car built in 2005 to one being built this year: The five most connected cars | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews

 

[Caine]

i understand you dont got time for that,but alot of people do,alot of people stopped relying on one os to fullfill their neededs as no one os ever has.

Considering all I do is browse the web and play games.... maybe watch some stuff on my computer (mostly through a website)... print some **** every now and then.......store some photos every now and then from my phone........

All these things I can do in Windows........ So Windows I shall stick with..

I mean, I *LIKE* the idea of using Linux.... I've installed variations of it in the past and toyed around.. I like the way things look in the Linux distros I've used...... But unfortunately Windows fulfills all of my needs.... even if I am left wanting something else.