$7-a-gallon gas?

[cholla]

A sign of true partisanship is when you are convinced the other side is actively trying to hurt the country. I think the GOP and conservatives are wrong on most issues, but I never once thought that they were evil people bent on hurting America.

Maybe, just maybe, some people on the "environmentalist" side are thinking about the long-term. About what will happen to America if we don't prepare ourselves for the inevitable global changeover from fossil fuels.

China, India, most of Europe, they're all pushing themselves towards other fuel sources. When global supply starts to peter out, they'll be ready. They've been preparing for decades already, meanwhole we're still building Hummers. What do you think is going to happen to this country when it's the last one to make the switch?

We need an economic incentive for our private industry to figure this out. Like, yesterday. Currently, fossil fuel use is rising exponentially. They have a head start. Do you want it to stay that way?

What exactly will we be switching to?

 

[BCR]

The only way we will ever lose our dependence of off fossil fuels is if the price becomes to high. It would be nice to see something like this happen to seriously jump start the usage of alternative fuels but now is simply not the time. I do think something like this ought to happen eventually though because people in general have shown they don't really give two damns about the environment. In 1984 the average MPG of a vehicle was 20 MPG in 2004 it was 20.7. Think of all the technological advancement in that time frame yet we managed to make vehicles only .7 mpg more efficient.

 

[obvious Child]

Oh this thread is a hoot.

Those who attack Obama for not letting the private sector lead the growth are now arguing that the private sector wouldn't be able to derive some more efficient, less expensive method of vehicular fuel. Apparently, their faith in the market doesn't apply when it's oil we're talking about. Conservatives my ***. Apparently some people think that car companies can't POSSIBLY get more efficiency out of their vehicles. Oh Noes! American industry is incapable of rising to the challenge!

What economics and businesses teaches us (something many here don't understand), is that higher prices for one commodity causes a demand for substitutes. That demand causes an increase in investment. That investment often spurs new industries and new jobs. The insane prices for diamonds has fed the growth of the artificial diamond industry who right now has the capacity to produce large (read: 1 carat and up), wedding ring grade commercial diamonds so flawless that many gemologists now explicitly look for flaws to determine if it's artificial or natural. High gas prices will further investment into batteries, agricultural based fuels, and hydrogen cells. All of which we can then export to the world. Furthermore, artificially high gas prices would reduce our demand and stop feeding the governments that directly oppose us. And high gas prices leading to high efficiencies will act as a barrier to foreign importers. Who wins? American car companies.

Do you like funding Iran? How about Saudi Arabia where 15 of the 19 hijackers came from? I don't. Let's get off oil.

 

[zimmer]

You don't seem to understand the scale we're talking about. It's pretty much impossible at this point for more drilling to keep up with the global increase in oil consumption. You're also ignoring the little issue of this stuff not being unlimited.

I understand fully.

Your solution is to what? Limit drilling so there is less supply and higher prices.
Genius.

Yes it is limited, but there are reserves for a few hundred years, by today's forecasts. We will evolve out of oil.
You know... evolve... evolution. Like we did from whale blubber.
Until then, let's get that damn oil on the market.

Or... what do you what to do? Save it for when we don't require it?
That's like saving sex for when you're impotent.
Something I advise all Commi-Libs to do. Keeps your genes packed away for the worms.

What exactly will we be switching to?

Bicycles.

Oh this thread is a hoot.

Those who attack Obama for not letting the private sector lead the growth are now arguing that the private sector wouldn't be able to derive some more efficient, less expensive method of vehicular fuel.

At the moment that is correct.
What alternative do we have other than cheap and abundant oil?
We haven't found a way to harness your oral feces, or your compatriots yet, so we're stuck with... oel for the moment.

Until we evolve out of oil and find other cost effective methods to power industry and our lives, oil it is.

You just cannot mandate we change when there is no viable alternative capable of fueling our economies. There is no magic wand.

Until then, let's extract and exploit our abundant supplies.

.

 

[obvious Child]

At the moment that is correct.

LOL. Do you really believe that our current vehicles are at the pinnicle of efficency? Clearly you've never been to Europe or Japan.

What alternative do we have other than cheap and abundant oil?

At the moment, nothing really, but doing nothing as you propose isn't the answer.

We haven't found a way to harness your oral feces, or your compatriots yet, so we're stuck with... oel for the moment.

Hope you enjoy your infraction.

Until we evolve out of oil and find other cost effective methods to power industry and our lives, oil it is.

And you somehow think not creating incentives will speed this up how?

You just cannot mandate we change when there is no viable alternative capable of fueling our economies. There is no magic wand.

]quote]Until then, let's extract and exploit our abundant supplies.[/quote]

I still find it amusing you haven't figured out how oil is priced, regardless of where it is drilled.

Lusting for Europe's Illegal 60-MPG Cars | Hybrid Cars

LOL. They beat us without the emissions reducing technologies. Apparently the Fords made for the European market cannot be used as a technological base to increase efficiency here. That's Zimmer's thinking. The same company who can make 65 mpg car for Europe cannot under any way means or how make a 35 mpg car for America.

You wonder why I laugh at you.

 

[obvious Child]

Double post

 

[obvious Child]

So Obama is NOT bedfellows with oil corporations?

Is that the new rightist diagnosis?

It's pretty amazing just how lunny some of these people are. IMO, they are moving past the people who blamed Bush for everything. And the truly hysterical part is they are the same people who criticized the "Blame Bush For Everything" crowd. What a bunch of hypocrites.

 

[zimmer]

LOL. Do you really believe that our current vehicles are at the pinnicle of efficency? Clearly you've never been to Europe or Japan.

I have been to both, and further, know the Euro continent better than virtually all Europeans. Now, they do drive shoe boxes, but don't go to Germany... it's the greatest stretch of gas guzzling roadway in the world.

German engineering driving 80 to 130 mph.
Beautiful. The fastest I've been on the autobahn is 270k's.
Then there are their trains. They're not wind powered, and the ICE hit a smooth 250k's.

At the moment, nothing really, but doing nothing as you propose isn't the answer.

I'm not suggsting doing nothing. I said we will evolve out of it.
But we are far from a source or sources that allow for it.
So... let's drill as we evolve

Hope you enjoy your infraction.

LOL.
Calling lame posts oral feces is an accurate description. Another way of saying you're full of it.
Not permitted? We'll see.

And you somehow think not creating incentives will speed this up how?

So now incentives are going to grow an industry?
ROTFLMFAO.
You, the defender of Obamanomics... LOL.
You realize that's yet another 180?
ROTFLOL.
If "incentives" (tax cuts) work so well, HOW ABOUT FOR THE WHOLE DAMN COUNTRY?
JFK (R-MA) understood this clearly. Reagan implemented it with tremendous success...

Have a look... listen... learn.
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset+Tree/Asset+Viewers/Audio+Video+Asset+Viewer.htm?guid={A138FFB8-5B6A-4C6A-A8CC-70C6E4FF39DA}&type=Audio
ROTFLMFAO

I still find it amusing you haven't figured out how oil is priced, regardless of where it is drilled.

More drivel. But nice try.

Euro prices are 75% tax.
In the US they are as high as 60 cents a gallon.


Lusting for Europe's Illegal 60-MPG Cars | Hybrid Cars

LOL. They beat us without the emissions reducing technologies. Apparently the Fords made for the European market cannot be used as a technological base to increase efficiency here. That's Zimmer's thinking. The same company who can make 65 mpg car for Europe cannot under any way means or how make a 35 mpg car for America.

You wonder why I laugh at you.

If nobody is interested in buying the car, what does it matter?
Or are you going to force people to buy them?

Europe really has a huge hybrid market... LOL

Hybrids have 2.3 percent market share in the U.S., while in Europe it is still only 0.5 percent.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-20007956-48.html

U.S. car market lags behind Europe, Japan in 'green' fuel | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews

ROTFLOL... they may lust for them, but NOBODY IS BUYING THEM... ROTFLOL.

BTW... Nice photos... but those cars are shoe boxes.
Not exactly cars to haul a boat, pack a family in... unless they're midgets.

Again... nice try... back to the Socialist drawing board for you.

.

 

[The_Penguin]

So what does Obama say will happen. He said in his oil spill address we need this type of law. It will devastate those already hurting by the recession and unemployment. Obama would be better off addressing jobs and the economy

Not really. If you up the tax on gas gradually, say 10 cents over every 2 months, the economy will adapt just fine. Also, if you decrease other taxes along the way (and certain regulations), you will see emphasis on taxing consumption (and we all know how well that's been working out for this country over the past 20 years) and a reduced reliance on taxing what people make (say the personal income tax or the tax on gains on interest paid to you by the bank in your savings account.)

 

[obvious Child]

I have been to both, and further, know the Euro continent better than virtually all Europeans. Now, they do drive shoe boxes, but don't go to Germany... it's the greatest stretch of gas guzzling roadway in the world.

Which is pretty much proof you are lying. The Autobahn due to increased traffic on it has severely reduced the areas in which there are no speed limits. if you actually knew the continent as you say you did, you wouldn't have made that comment. Only during certain periods of the day and on certain stretches is there no speed limit. For the majority of the time, there are speed limits and often relatively restrictive.

I'm not suggsting doing nothing. I said we will evolve out of it.

By maintaining the current system and not creating incentives to change...

Again, you wonder why I laugh at you.

But we are far from a source or sources that allow for it.
So... let's drill as we evolve

So let's not create more incentives? Seriously, do you even think before posting?

Not permitted? We'll see.

Oh I know you're getting one. It's just if you're willing to admit you got it.

So now incentives are going to grow an industry?
ROTFLMFAO.

Exactly. How do you think biotech got its start? How do you think Nuclear got where it is now? Incentives, often to the point of handouts. Just because you have no historical knowledge of economics doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. And you ignore that the defense industry is where it is now by reacting to incentives. And let's not even get started on solar and wind, both of which right now rely on massive incentives for investment. I pretty much know you're going to pretend this part of my post doesn't exist because you cannot deal with specifics.

If "incentives" (tax cuts) work so well, HOW ABOUT FOR THE WHOLE DAMN COUNTRY?
JFK (R-MA) understood this clearly. Reagan implemented it with tremendous success...

Still don't know what linear regression is do you? I see you are still pretending the massive spending under Reagan didn't do anything.

More drivel. But nice try.

Drivel because you don't know how it works. I'd ask you to explain, but I know you don't get it.

Euro prices are 75% tax.
In the US they are as high as 60 cents a gallon.

Which has spawned serious efficiency gains in European cars.

If nobody is interested in buying the car, what does it matter?

Did you even blink before you made that fallacy?

You falsely claimed that Detroit cannot make more efficient cars. I think linked them doing just that for other markets. Now you change your argument without admitting you were wrong. Did you really expect me not to point that out?

Or are you going to force people to buy them?

Europe really has a huge hybrid market... LOL

Why would someone buy a hybrid for the extra premium when they can by a conventional car with similar gas mileage? Did you fail to recognize that simple fact?

ROTFLOL... they may lust for them, but NOBODY IS BUYING THEM... ROTFLOL.

yeah, because due to higher taxes, European cars have higher efficiency levels. People generally buy hybrids to save on gas. But when you can avoid the premium and get the same performance, it makes no difference. Honestly, you just shot yourself in the foot there.

it is amusing just how ignorant you are.

 

[ptif219]

So, he wasn't for cap and trade before? Again, address Deuce.

Read the OP he is now using the oil spill to push it and justify it

 

[ptif219]

Not really. If you up the tax on gas gradually, say 10 cents over every 2 months, the economy will adapt just fine. Also, if you decrease other taxes along the way (and certain regulations), you will see emphasis on taxing consumption (and we all know how well that's been working out for this country over the past 20 years) and a reduced reliance on taxing what people make (say the personal income tax or the tax on gains on interest paid to you by the bank in your savings account.)

No you miss the affect on shipping costs that raise the price of everything. Then there is the rise in cost of electricity and all forms of energy

 

[obvious Child]

I understand fully.

Your next line shows you don't have a clue.

Your solution is to what? Limit drilling so there is less supply and higher prices.
Genius.

Care to show me how an immaterial amount of oil can materially affect prices? As Don pointed out on another thread, the oil in question is substantially less then 1% of the world's readily available supply. You are explicitly arguing that a tiny amount produced by a small producers can significantly impact prices. Effectively, you just argued that a Mom and Pop grocer can affect lettuce prices next to a Walmart Super Center. Commence the laughing at Zimmer....Now.

Yes it is limited, but there are reserves for a few hundred years, by today's forecasts.

Except that those forecasts aren't properly accounting for the double digit growth in China and India. And we're going to pay through the nose for those years.

We will evolve out of oil.

So let's get out faster. And save it for the things we actually need it for that aren't easily replaceable, like durable plastics.

Like we did from whale blubber.
Until then, let's get that damn oil on the market.

Um, we stopped using whale blubber because there were better products and whaling became expensive. And we almost wiped out most of the species. Let's get off oil without such drastic changes.

Or... what do you what to do? Save it for when we don't require it?
That's like saving sex for when you're impotent.
Something I advise all Commi-Libs to do. Keeps your genes packed away for the worms.

Funny. You don't get that producing more creates incentives not to get off oil. The longer we incentivize oil, the greater the investment into it, the larger the cost to change.

 

[obvious Child]

No you miss the affect on shipping costs that raise the price of everything. Then there is the rise in cost of electricity and all forms of energy

How does increasing taxes on a largely liquid fuel increase costs in all forms of energy? How does increasing petroluem based fuels increase the cost of existing solar? You do realize that most people don't get their electricity from petroluem no? Rising oil taxes does not affect the cost of producing energy in Dams aside from lubricate costs, but that's relatively insignificent.

 

[ptif219]

How does increasing taxes on a largely liquid fuel increase costs in all forms of energy? How does increasing petroluem based fuels increase the cost of existing solar? You do realize that most people don't get their electricity from petroluem no? Rising oil taxes does not affect the cost of producing energy in Dams aside from lubricate costs, but that's relatively insignificent.

So most electricity is solar?

How do the wind mills get transported. Much of electyricity is from petroleum. Nice try but we will never have enough wind mills and transportation costs will raise the cost of anything you buy

 

[obvious Child]

So most electricity is solar?

Is reading fundamental? Did I say Solar was generating most of our electricity? No.

How do the wind mills get transported.

I wasn't aware that non-operating turbines generated electricty. Please show how this is possible.

Much of electyricity is from petroleum.

What country are you refering to?

Different sources of electricity, what are the different sources of electricity, alternative sources of electricity, alternative energy sources
File:2008 US electricity generation by source v2.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fuel Sources for Electricity Generation- U.S.

Clearly, it's not the US? Maybe Saudi Arabia?

Nice try but we will never have enough wind mills and transportation costs will raise the cost of anything you buy

Uh, does the concept of electric vehicles mean anything to you?

 

[Goyboy]

Point of Information:

Unless I am mistaken, Mother Nature will eventually wean humanity off of crude oil, because Mother Nature isn't replentishing the crude oil that is being pumped out of the ground. Crude oil becomes scarcer as each day passes. So higher gasoline prices are inevitable.

Over time Mankind will have to rely more on non-crude-oil-based fuel sources to power automobile, locomotive and ship engines. Mankind will also have to develop plastics and plastic substitutes that aren't made from crude oil.

In short, a time will come when Nature, not politics, will drive up the price of gasoline. Do we prepare for that time now, or do we leave the problem for future generations to solve?

 

[obvious Child]

I don't know about some of the hardcore partisan hacks here, but I'd rather get my electricity from an American made renewable source then having to buy it from the Dutch or the Chinese. Maybe some of the hardcore hacks like increasing our trade deficit?

 

[Goyboy]

I don't know about some of the hardcore partisan hacks here, but I'd rather get my electricity from an American made renewable source then having to buy it from the Dutch or the Chinese. Maybe some of the hardcore hacks like increasing our trade deficit?

I'm confused (more than usual, that is). How would the Dutch or Chinese deliver electricity to the USA? Aren't there oceans separating the USA from those nations?

By the way, if crude oil isn't being replentished, and if we will eventually run out of crude oil, then which part of the world do you want to run out of crude oil first, the USA or the OPEC nations?

 

[obvious Child]

I'm confused (more than usual, that is). How would the Dutch or Chinese deliver electricity to the USA? Aren't there oceans separating the USA from those nations?

Both of those nations are years ahead of us in producing the technology required to generate renewable. So we'd likely be buying our equipment from them. I'd rather buy American turbines and solar panels then Japanese/Dutch solar and wind turbines.

By the way, if crude oil isn't being replentished, and if we will eventually run out of crude oil, then which part of the world do you want to run out of crude oil first, the USA or the OPEC nations?

At that point, oil would be so unaffordable that it wouldn't be an issue. I suspect long before we actually come close to depleting stores, we'll have a viable alterantive.

 

[zimmer]

First, let me say that you have a bad habit of putting things in people's mouths they have never said or condoned.
But, it's what children do when they try to get out of trouble. Anything goes.
Try breaking yourself of the habit.

If you continue, I'll keep posting the above as a warning to others.
I think it's fair... and I'd do it in a debate where the opponent keeps attributing words never uttered, or twisting them beyond all sane reason.

Which is pretty much proof you are lying. The Autobahn due to increased traffic on it has severely reduced the areas in which there are no speed limits. if you actually knew the continent as you say you did, you wouldn't have made that comment. Only during certain periods of the day and on certain stretches is there no speed limit. For the majority of the time, there are speed limits and often relatively restrictive.

Except you are tragically wrong again.
In fact, I suspect you are the key actor in Tommy Jaud's first novel.

By maintaining the current system and not creating incentives to change...

Again, you wonder why I laugh at you.

So let's not create more incentives? Seriously, do you even think before posting?

ANOTHER OF YOUR PUTTING WORDS IN SOMEONE'S MOUTH.

Oh I know you're getting one. It's just if you're willing to admit you got it.

WRONG AGAIN.
NO PENALTIES... ROTFLOL... WANNA SCREEN SHOT?

Now... that's 3 Strikes in three attempts.

Exactly. How do you think biotech got its start? How do you think Nuclear got where it is now? Incentives, often to the point of handouts. Just because you have no historical knowledge of economics doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. And you ignore that the defense industry is where it is now by reacting to incentives. And let's not even get started on solar and wind, both of which right now rely on massive incentives for investment. I pretty much know you're going to pretend this part of my post doesn't exist because you cannot deal with specifics.

MY POINT BEING.
GIVE THE WHOLE NATION A TAX BREAK.
Did it go over your head?
Did you not see the JFK link?

Four strikes

Still don't know what linear regression is do you? I see you are still pretending the massive spending under Reagan didn't do anything.

YOU NEVER ASKED ME THE QUESTION... SO... THERE YOU GO AGAIN
NOW... DO YOU MEAN CORRELATION? NOVICES GET THEM CONFUSED.

PERHAPS YOU CAN ENLIGHTEN THE CLASS AS TO THE DIFFERENCE.

Drivel because you don't know how it works. I'd ask you to explain, but I know you don't get it.

ROTFLOL

5 Strikes

Which has spawned serious efficiency gains in European cars.



Did you even blink before you made that fallacy?

You falsely claimed that Detroit cannot make more efficient cars. I think linked them doing just that for other markets. Now you change your argument without admitting you were wrong. Did you really expect me not to point that out?

Or are you going to force people to buy them?



Why would someone buy a hybrid for the extra premium when they can by a conventional car with similar gas mileage? Did you fail to recognize that simple fact?



yeah, because due to higher taxes, European cars have higher efficiency levels. People generally buy hybrids to save on gas. But when you can avoid the premium and get the same performance, it makes no difference. Honestly, you just shot yourself in the foot there.

it is amusing just how ignorant you are.

Strike, strike, strike... You've struck out twice.
Shall we attempt something less rigorous?

F = M x A

You know that one? ROTFLMFAO.

The hybrid, mini-car, shoe-box argument is meaningless. It only has meaning if you think we need to desperately need to conserve.
We don't need to desperately conserve. We can afford large American vehicles, especially if taxes on the stuff was reduced.
Euros have stupidly inflated fuel prices; 75% of it is tax.

Now, these mini-cars result in unneeded deaths and people being maimed. For what? Some Enviromaniac?

As for saving? They don't save, they cost.

Smoke this:

Americans are buying more small cars to cut fuel costs, and that might kill them.

As a group, occupants of small cars are more likely to die in crashes than those in bigger, heavier vehicles are, according to data from the government, the insurance industry and the National Academy of Sciences (NAS).
People buy small cars even though they can be deadly - USATODAY.com

My friend Kerry was proud to be on the cutting edge of hybrid technology when he bought a Toyota Prius a few years ago.

He's less proud to be on the cutting edge of hybrid-technology repairs. He just paid a bundle to replace the car's transaxle, part of the vehicle's new-wave continuously variable transmission, which failed just after the warranty expired.

"The dealer initially told me it would be $3,000 just for the labor, and $5,000 for the part. That's 40% of the original base price of the car!"
High-tech cars mean high-priced repairs - MSN Money

Consumer advocate testing has shown that hybrid savings in fuel economy usually fails to offset the extra purchase price.
Hybrid Cars Vs Gas Cars – Pros and Cons

Conclusion

While no "green" person would ever advocate buying a hybrid for purely economic reasons,48 it is painfully obvious that existing hybrids lack the ability to make up for their steep prices with gas savings.
Is a Hybrid Worth It? - OmniNerd

This guy never met you though... Linear Regression and all, you fail epically to understand Mini-Cars Kill, hybrids don't save on gas, they are more expensive to maintain when something goes titters, and all combined, you don't save money.

You can drive a shoe box... just don't get into a wreck.

.

 

[zimmer]

Your next line shows you don't have a clue.

Care to show me how an immaterial amount of oil can materially affect prices? As Don pointed out on another thread, the oil in question is substantially less then 1% of the world's readily available supply. You are explicitly arguing that a tiny amount produced by a small producers can significantly impact prices. Effectively, you just argued that a Mom and Pop grocer can affect lettuce prices next to a Walmart Super Center. Commence the laughing at Zimmer....Now.

... the top academic energy journal, aptly named, ``The Energy Journal,'' recently rejected a study by economists Morris Coats and Gary Pecquet of Nicholls State University in Louisiana that found that higher production in the future would reduce prices today.

FYI:
The study... wasn't rejected because it lacked academic merit. It was rejected because the finding was so well known. James Smith, the impeccably credentialed editor of The Energy Journal described it this way to the unfortunate authors:

``Basically, your main result (the present impact of an anticipated future supply change) is already known to economists (although perhaps not to the Democratic Policy Committee). It is our policy to publish only original research that adds significantly to the body of received knowledge regarding energy markets and policy.''
Start Drilling Now to Lower Oil, Gasoline Prices: Kevin Hassett - Bloomberg.com

ROTFLOL... "The study... wasn't rejected because it lacked academic merit. It was rejected because the finding was so well known"... obviously a hole in someone's theory...

If exploration didn't matter a hoot, then let's stop all drilling, and tell kanuckistan to close the Athabaska Tar Sands.
Return Ft. McMurray to the natives... ROTFLMFAO.

How's your Linear Regression these days? You got an ointment for it??? ROTFLOL.

Except that those forecasts aren't properly accounting for the double digit growth in China and India. And we're going to pay through the nose for those years.

So let's stop exploring at home... that's your MO... enjoy it.
The Chinese are working with all manner of despot to get energy, and they're building infra to support it; like the supertanker harbor in Hambantota.

So let's get out faster. And save it for the things we actually need it for that aren't easily replaceable, like durable plastics.

ROTFLMAO... there are alternatives to durable plastics... LOL... Let's get out when we have an alternative resource.

Um, we stopped using whale blubber because there were better products and whaling became expensive. And we almost wiped out most of the species. Let's get off oil without such drastic changes.

Well, finally you get a base hit.
But let's not **** ourselves over now while looking for solutions. Nuke is an option... except for the same Greenies hating oil.

Funny. You don't get that producing more creates incentives not to get off oil. The longer we incentivize oil, the greater the investment into it, the larger the cost to change.

Look, we are wedded to oil, unless we start blasting out nuke facilities, and even then we're dependent on oil. Unless some wise guy can figure out how to get a hydrogen vehicle to work for the masses, be safe to fuel and be safe in the worst of wrecks.

In time it will happen, but we have fuel for a good long while... and with that... we should go get it.

.

 

[The_Penguin]

No you miss the affect on shipping costs that raise the price of everything.

The economy will adapt. Smaller cars that are more fuel efficient will be used in greater numbers. People will live closer together and freight will be moved primarily by trains.

Then there is the rise in cost of electricity and all forms of energy

... no ... US is self-sufficient in electricity. Most of our electricity comes from hydro, coal and nuclear. Coal is transported primarily by train and by sea-lanes. Diesel trains will be replaced by electric ones if there is no long-term benefit in using them.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I have been to both, and further, know the Euro continent better than virtually all Europeans. Now, they do drive shoe boxes, but don't go to Germany... it's the greatest stretch of gas guzzling roadway in the world.

German engineering driving 80 to 130 mph.
Beautiful. The fastest I've been on the autobahn is 270k's.
Then there are their trains. They're not wind powered, and the ICE hit a smooth 250k's.


I'm not suggsting doing nothing. I said we will evolve out of it.
But we are far from a source or sources that allow for it.
So... let's drill as we evolve


LOL.
Calling lame posts oral feces is an accurate description. Another way of saying you're full of it.
Not permitted? We'll see.


So now incentives are going to grow an industry?
ROTFLMFAO.
You, the defender of Obamanomics... LOL.
You realize that's yet another 180?
ROTFLOL.
If "incentives" (tax cuts) work so well, HOW ABOUT FOR THE WHOLE DAMN COUNTRY?
JFK (R-MA) understood this clearly. Reagan implemented it with tremendous success...

Have a look... listen... learn.
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset+Tree/Asset+Viewers/Audio+Video+Asset+Viewer.htm?guid={A138FFB8-5B6A-4C6A-A8CC-70C6E4FF39DA}&type=Audio
ROTFLMFAO


More drivel. But nice try.

Euro prices are 75% tax.
In the US they are as high as 60 cents a gallon.


Lusting for Europe's Illegal 60-MPG Cars | Hybrid Cars

If nobody is interested in buying the car, what does it matter?
Or are you going to force people to buy them?

Europe really has a huge hybrid market... LOL



ROTFLOL... they may lust for them, but NOBODY IS BUYING THEM... ROTFLOL.

BTW... Nice photos... but those cars are shoe boxes.
Not exactly cars to haul a boat, pack a family in... unless they're midgets.

Again... nice try... back to the Socialist drawing board for you.

.

Europe uses diesels more then hybrids. Diesels provide fuel economy levels that rival hybrids in combined cycles. Where Hybrids do better in the city, the diesels do better on the highway. Given that diesel fuel is cheaper then gasoline in Europe, it is more pratical for Europeans to go for diesel technology rather then the hybrid tech.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The economy will adapt. Smaller cars that are more fuel efficient will be used in greater numbers. People will live closer together and freight will be moved primarily by trains.

... no ... US is self-sufficient in electricity. Most of our electricity comes from hydro, coal and nuclear. Coal is transported primarily by train and by sea-lanes. Diesel trains will be replaced by electric ones if there is no long-term benefit in using them.

The US is not self sufficient in electricty.

BC and Quebec export electricity to the US. Quebec does so in large amounts to the North East US. Canada on the other hand does not import much electricity from the US, perhaps occasionally southern Ontario and Alberta will during peak periods of demand, but now where near the amounts that Quebec exports