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538 says that there is no evidence that early voting boosts turnout

Hawkeye10

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We also see no increase in turnout at the state level. Massachusetts is the most recent state to implement early voting, which it did for the 2016 election. Turnout in Massachusetts that year was 67 percent — only one point higher than in 2012. That’s also the same amount that national turnout increased by, so it’s hard to attribute the state’s increase to early voting. Likewise, turnout in Massachusetts in 2016 was 8 points higher than the national average. That’s exactly the same as it was in 2012 and 2014, before early voting was implemented,3 so it looks like early voting has had little effect on turnout there so far.

Turnout also hasn’t increased in states where early voting is well established, such as Ohio, which enacted early voting4 in 2005. Its turnout rates have held steady relative to the national average in almost every election from 2000 to 20165 — between 2 and 8 points higher than the country as a whole.6 There is certainly no sign of consistently higher turnout post-2005.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/early-voting-laws-probably-dont-boost-turnout/


Then dont do it, making voting easier does not justify the corruption of the result by not having everyone voting at the same time, using the same available information. Also making elections easy for the citizens trying to entice them into voting is not even a good thing as 538 claims....Let the people who care the most vote, make it harder to vote, then we will get a better result.
 

uptower

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Let the people who care the most vote, make it harder to vote, then we will get a better result.

Which sounds eerily like Mitch McConnell. the 'better result' of course being, a more conservative, white legislature and executive. Make it easy as possible for every eligible citizen to vote and watch the pool widen.
 

Hawkeye10

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Which sounds eerily like Mitch McConnell. the 'better result' of course being, a more conservative, white legislature and executive. Make it easy as possible for every eligible citizen to vote and watch the pool widen.

We have focused on the expansion of suffrage as the quality of our government has declined.....maybe there is a connection.....maybe we made a mistake.
 

Harshaw

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We have focused on the expansion of suffrage as the quality of our government has declined.....maybe there is a connection.....maybe we made a mistake.

Or not.
 

Harshaw

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https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/early-voting-laws-probably-dont-boost-turnout/

Then dont do it, making voting easier does not justify the corruption of the result by not having everyone voting at the same time, using the same available information. Also making elections easy for the citizens trying to entice them into voting is not even a good thing as 538 claims....Let the people who care the most vote, make it harder to vote, then we will get a better result.

I disagree with every point, except for the results of the analysis. They are what they are, although I'm not qualified to say whether or not the studies show what they claim. The Ohio turnout graph showed their post early voting turnout compared to the national average ranged from -1 to +7, so clearly there's a lot affecting turnout in addition to early voting. If the studies can't otherwise predict the impact of those 'in addition to' factors on turnout, they can't reliably predict or estimate what impact early voting had or didn't have.

I have to admit early voting doesn't affect my turnout at all because we vote not quite every election but close, and in every one where the result matters to us. But I love it. Early voting starts, we vote usually the first Saturday, it takes 5 minutes, no lines, nice and relaxed, and it's done. The last time I voted on election day, parking was a PITA in the small lot that's our polling place, then the lines were 45 minutes long. Not sure how that gets a better result. I can't recall EVER in 30+ years of voting changing my mind about a race I cared about in the last two weeks or even month, and we don't watch TV most days at all, so the late campaign ads have no impact.

This past election we took my mother in law to vote. Turns out she didn't have the right ID (a current AL DL wouldn't work although she was registered in TN). So we went home, found her expired passport in the files, and that worked fine and we went the next Saturday. She's 89 and physically frail, so not standing in line for an hour was a big benefit - dropped her off 15 feet from the door of the polling place, and she went straight to a voting booth. Out in 5 minutes.

And as a general rule, I don't know how one would make it intentionally harder to vote without suppressing the vote, or why erecting barriers necessarily will improve voters' choices, result in better elected officials. I've found some awfully enthusiastic voters who believe a lot of crap that just ain't true, that's objectively false, so I'm not sure of the asserted cause and effect relationship between an enthusiastic voter and an informed voter. This also assumes that the most enthusiastic voters want what's good for the country. It's possible, but not obviously true.
 

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We have focused on the expansion of suffrage as the quality of our government has declined.....maybe there is a connection.....maybe we made a mistake.

So you feel democracy is the problem?
 

Hawkeye10

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Not on universal suffrage, it's not.

When a system is not working close examination and rethinking is required.







This has been a Life Lesson compliments of Hawkeye.
 

Harshaw

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When a system is not working close examination and rethinking is required.







This has been a Life Lesson compliments of Hawkeye.

There's much of your thinking which appears to need reexamination.
 

marke

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https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/early-voting-laws-probably-dont-boost-turnout/


Then dont do it, making voting easier does not justify the corruption of the result by not having everyone voting at the same time, using the same available information. Also making elections easy for the citizens trying to entice them into voting is not even a good thing as 538 claims....Let the people who care the most vote, make it harder to vote, then we will get a better result.

Early voting is a democrat must, considering their history of busing voters around to various multiple precincts to increase vote casting.
 

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We have focused on the expansion of suffrage as the quality of our government has declined.....maybe there is a connection.....maybe we made a mistake.

The big expansions of suffrage in the 20th century are the 19th amendment giving women the "right" to vote, and the voting rights act which did away with poll taxes and other methods to exclude blacks from the polls in the South. If that's what you're referring to, be direct about it. If not, what "expansion of suffrage" is in your view the cause of this decline in government.
 

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When a system is not working close examination and rethinking is required.

This has been a Life Lesson compliments of Hawkeye.

No, this has been Hawkeye talking all around an issue without stating a case. Who exactly do you want to exclude, or through deliberate policy choices at least discourage from voting, and how would we do that, exactly?
 

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I know that America is not working, and that this is most certainly NOT OK.

Yeah, but you're taking a conclusion - America is not working - and connecting dots between that conclusion and too many people voting. It's those dots and how you established them that is a mystery.

Let's put it this way - assume a Presidential election (or really any election). Which 'force' has the most impact on who is elected in that election - the shadowy guys with unlimited wallets pulling strings behind the scenes, burying the system in a puke stream of money, or some poor working stiff who finds it easier to vote on a Saturday than on a Tuesday?

In my experience when you're looking at the systemic problems in this country and are looking to blame the poor schmucks who wield no power and are just going about their day as best they can, and NOT looking WAY UP to the guys in penthouse suites, in private jets, corner offices, you're perspective needs to change, in a big way, because you're being blinded by the bull**** peddled by those guy WAY UP THERE who are perfectly content with problems being blamed on the powerless in this country.
 

Praxas

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When a system is not working close examination and rethinking is required.







This has been a Life Lesson compliments of Hawkeye.

So your claim is that early voting is causing bad government. So, explain how. Right now your correlation does not equal causation.
 

Hawkeye10

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Look at how the geniuses turned out wrong, Yet Again.

They told us that they were sure.

No doubt about it.

ASSHOLES
 

uptower

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We have focused on the expansion of suffrage as the quality of our government has declined.....maybe there is a connection.....maybe we made a mistake.

A great argument for dictatorship, oligarchy, autocracy, totalitarianism, authoritarianism. No thanks.

If you (or 'we' for that matter) want to go down that path be warned. One day they'll come for your vote too. Right before they come for your guns. And they will have both or they'll have your ass, because that's what happens when you remove the right to vote.
 
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Hawkeye10

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A great argument for dictatorship, oligarchy, autocracy, totalitarianism, authoritarianism. No thanks.

If you (collectively) want to go down that path be warned. One day they'll come for your vote too. Right before they come for your guns. And they will have both or they'll have your ass, because that's what happens when you remove the right to vote.

The forces of decay and Evil have been winning for some time, where the **** have you been?

Trump and the Rebellion said "NO!...MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!".

ALSO "Pay close attention to how the Geniuses have been ****ing U Over."

Have been ****ing America over.

AMERICA FIRST!
 

uptower

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The forces of decay and Evil have been winning for some time, where the **** have you been?

Trump and the Rebellion said "NO!...MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!".

ALSO "Pay close attention to how the Geniuses have been ****ing U Over."

Have been ****ing America over.

AMERICA FIRST!

Umm, well that settles that then.

I've never been a fan of the slippery slope argument, but in some cases it fits: restricting voter rights really is the path to dictatorship. Whatever that does it will not make America 'great'.

The 'rebellion' is just a few incels in leather trench coats and sloppy airsofters...sorry, 'militiamen' with dad-bods in camouflage.
 

JasperL

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The forces of decay and Evil have been winning for some time, where the **** have you been?

Trump and the Rebellion said "NO!...MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!".

ALSO "Pay close attention to how the Geniuses have been ****ing U Over."

Have been ****ing America over.

AMERICA FIRST!

So, make Trump a dictator? Missing the connection between voting and the elites ****ing us over. Without the voters giving the elites the middle finger and electing Trump, the man was dismissed by the 'elites' and had as much chance as you or I to become President and MAGA.
 

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https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/early-voting-laws-probably-dont-boost-turnout/


Then dont do it, making voting easier does not justify the corruption of the result by not having everyone voting at the same time, using the same available information. Also making elections easy for the citizens trying to entice them into voting is not even a good thing as 538 claims....Let the people who care the most vote, make it harder to vote, then we will get a better result.

This isn't an argument. Please make an argument.
 

Hawkeye10

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This isn't an argument. Please make an argument.

You dont have any say in how my brain or mouth function. I have always from the start been honest that my brain was trained in the East and as well that I was never a part of the herd,,,,plus I am reasonably smart and very curious and tenacious as Hell so I have learned far more than most during my 57 years of this life.....and I like to share...even my wife.

Listen or dont, though I do recommend listening.

I am more work but so very worth it.

The Freddie Mercury of DP.

ME

:2wave:
 
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FieldTheorist

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You dont have any say in how my brain or mouth function. I have always from the start been honest that my brain was trained in the East and as well that I was never a part of the herd,,,,plus I am reasonably smart and very curious and tenacious as Hell so I have learned far more than most during my 57 years of this life.....and I like to share...even my wife.

Listen or dont, though I do recommend listening.

I am more work but so very worth it.

The Freddie Mercury of DP.

ME

:2wave:

So you don't have an argument. Okay. Good to know.
 
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