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50,000 soldiers NATO’s largest military exercise, Northern Sweden and Finland play key role as NATO

Litwin

Litwin

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is there any chance that ozero attacks Scandinavia or Baltics ? vova putler is very desperate (old despot , he is losing his popularity daily) and needs to do something similar to Crimea annexation....

50,000 soldiers NATO’s largest military exercise, Northern Sweden and Finland play key role as NATO kicks off Trident Juncture

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/2018/10/nato

NATO should defend Sweden, Finland if attacked - NATO official
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https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-n...nland-if-attacked-nato-official-idUKKBN1DT30T
 
I don't believe so, but then again Trump probably wouldn't feel like even saying anything negative about it.
 
Scandinavian refugees? Trump will roll out the red carpet....
 
Beaudreaux said:
I keep hearing that it's not the size that matters, but what you do with it... I mean them.
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Really? I keep hearing that size does matter.





(grin!)
 
PoS said:
Just 50K? Russia's last military exercise had 300K soldiers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-ever-military-exercise-300000-soldiers-china
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product of TV.ru propaganda

"This exercise is part of what I have called “heavy-metal diplomacy”: Russia’s use of its military to overawe and misdirect the West. We’ve seen this kind of undiplomatic diplomacy at work in Europe, where Moscow has responded to debates in Sweden and Finland about joining NATO with war games simulating Russian invasions. We also see this sort of diplomacy at work in the numbers game Vladimir Putin plays. In last year’s Zapad war games, Moscow lowballed the number of soldiers participating in order to keep it below the ceiling at which Western countries would be able to send inspectors under Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe rules. This time around, the Russians seem happy to play up those numbers. But the much-hyped 300,000 figure involves much false accounting—in practice, the real figure may well be closer to 150,000, which is admittedly still an impressive tally. Judging from past examples like Zapad, many of these soldiers are unlikely to leave their barracks. They’ll be “involved” in exercises at the command post, not ones out in the field." https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...9/russia-vostok-putin-army-china-nato/570034/

the leading Muscovite military expert A Golts gives numbers less than 50 000 . so dont watch TV.ru it´ll kill your brain one day
 
Given that the Russophobes amongst you are in one of your 'Russia didn't muster many troops for its military exercise' moods, can you tell us why a NATO exercise on Russia's borders involving a force bigger than you say Russia mustered for Vostok 18 is necessary?

Given that you now claim NATO's exercise is bigger than Russia's (which was entirely within its own borders) - who is acting as the aggressor, the more threatening? Based on your claims, Trident Juncture is un-necessarily provocative.
 
PoS said:
LOL A Golts? Are you sure his name isnt A Dolt... ;)
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yes, "Alexander Golts is one of Russia’s leading military analysts. He is the deputy editor-in-chief of the Russian news and opinion website ej.ru ("Daily Journal") and a columnist for The Moscow Times. He is currently a George F. Kennan Fellow at the Wilson Center, Washington, D.C. Previously, he was a visiting fellow at Stanford University's Center for International Security and Cooperation. He has written widely on the Russian military and Russian security policy."



man, did you get the new job in Putlerstan (Ogino) ?
 
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Litwin said:
yes, "Alexander Golts is one of Russia’s leading military analysts. He is the deputy editor-in-chief of the Russian news and opinion website ej.ru ("Daily Journal") and a columnist for The Moscow Times. He is currently a George F. Kennan Fellow at the Wilson Center, Washington, D.C. Previously, he was a visiting fellow at Stanford University's Center for International Security and Cooperation. He has written widely on the Russian military and Russian security policy."
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It was a joke, but in the end I have no idea who he is and I will take the reporting of the Guardian over a youtuber any time.

And you must excuse me if I dont share your pathological hatred for Russia. That sort of thing is just unhealthy.
 
Westphalian said:
Given that the Russophobes amongst you are in one of your 'Russia didn't muster many troops for its military exercise' moods, can you tell us why a NATO exercise on Russia's borders involving a force bigger than you say Russia mustered for Vostok 18 is necessary?

Given that you now claim NATO's exercise is bigger than Russia's (which was entirely within its own borders) - who is acting as the aggressor, the more threatening? Based on your claims, Trident Juncture is un-necessarily provocative.
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....and what significance does any of that have beyond your usual take of applying your hypocritical double standards?

In the manner of "if we do it, it's fine, if you do it, it's a provocation".

Whether you see it as a provocation or whatever else is totally irrelevant, the message is clear. "Don't continue messing with the sovereignty of states, just because you believe you're getting away with it in Crimea and Donbass.

And, most importantly, don't mess with us".
 
PoS said:
It was a joke, but in the end I have no idea who he is and I will take the reporting of the Guardian over a youtuber any time.

And you must excuse me if I dont share your pathological hatred for Russia. That sort of thing is just unhealthy.
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Don't worry PoS - your instincts were correct.

Golts is a self styled Russian military expert but he's also a pro-western liberal who has cut himself off from any useful sources inside the Russian military.

Take him with a pinch of salt - his readers are the western audience.
 
PoS said:
It was a joke, but in the end I have no idea who he is and I will take the reporting of the Guardian over a youtuber any time.

And you must excuse me if I dont share your pathological hatred for Russia. That sort of thing is just unhealthy.
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good for you, "Russia"'s last military exercise had 300K soldiers." have you ever been in Putler´s Muscovy? where can they find 300K soldiers? its just physically impossible

"Russia is happy to see the world swallow that 300,000 figure, because, like an animal puffing out its fur and baring its teeth when faced with a predator, it wants to look as formidable as possible. As an authoritarian nation, it spends more than it should on its military—more than a third of the total federal budget goes toward security, broadly defined. Putin has certainly managed to turn the demoralized and depleted armed forces he inherited into a capable, competent army.

Yet Putin is aware that the objective indicators do not help him make his case that Russia, with an economy smaller than that of Texas, should be treated as one of the great world powers"...
everyone knows it https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...9/russia-vostok-putin-army-china-nato/570034/
https://newtimes.ru/articles/detail/169616
 
Chagos said:
....and what significance does any of that have beyond your usual take of applying your hypocritical double standards?

In the manner of "if we do it, it's fine, if you do it, it's a provocation".

Whether you see it as a provocation or whatever else is totally irrelevant, the message is clear. "Don't continue messing with the sovereignty of states, just because you believe you're getting away with it in Crimea and Donbass.

And, most importantly, don't mess with us".
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:lamo

Look at you getting all gung-ho.

The message is whatever it's perceived to be. In Russia it's more along the lines of:

'NATO is a hostile and aggressive military force which threatens Russia'.


Remember, in Russia we don't see ourselves as you do. Your message is based on what you have been conditioned to see Russia as.
 
Westphalian said:
:lamo

Look at you getting all gung-ho.

The message is whatever it's perceived to be. In Russia it's more along the lines of:

'NATO is a hostile and aggressive military force which threatens Russia'.


Remember, in Russia we don't see ourselves as you do. Your message is based on what you have been conditioned to see Russia as.
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That last paragraph is absolutely hilarious. Even if true (in it's second half), isn't it a blessing for you that you're not conditioned in any way at all?:lamo:lamo

As to the gung-ho bit, if you had even a smidgen more self-awareness than you clearly do, you'd realize how much that statement of yours came right out of your own bathroom mirror.

To wit:
Westphalian said:
.~...................... All we want and intend to do is maintain the ability to inflict catastrophic damage on any aggressor........................~
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But then again your projection issues are by now common knowledge.
 
Chagos said:
That last paragraph is absolutely hilarious. Even if true (in it's second half), isn't it a blessing for you that you're not conditioned in any way at all?:lamo:lamo

As to the gung-ho bit, if you had even a smidgen more self-awareness than you clearly do, you'd realize how much that statement of yours came right out of your own bathroom mirror.

To wit:But then again your projection issues are by now common knowledge.
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Well, regarding deterrence, you agreed that NATO wanted exactly the same thing as Russia - the ability to inflict catastrophic damage. Same with conditioning.


So whatever you project on me in this respect is a mirror on yourself ......... either that or you lack any self awareness .......... looks like you're nailed either way ;).


I have some time for you Chagos. You're a capable and at times interesting poster. But I like to think you just have a blind spot when it comes to Russia. Maybe one day you'll see that the US is a bigger danger to Europe than Russia :).
 
Westphalian said:
Well, regarding deterrence, you agreed that NATO wanted exactly the same thing as Russia - the ability to inflict catastrophic damage.
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with the added caveat of neither wanting to put the ability into practice, yes indeed.
Same with conditioning.
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no idea what this is doing here.
So whatever you project on me in this respect is a mirror on yourself ......... either that or you lack any self awareness .......... looks like you're nailed either way ;).
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Maybe we should put our mirrors face to face and go play chess, meanwhile letting them argue it out.
I have some time for you Chagos. You're a capable and at times interesting poster. But I like to think you just have a blind spot when it comes to Russia. Maybe one day you'll see that the US is a bigger danger to Europe than Russia :).
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Like on the day that all hell freezes over?

I dunno how old you are Wes, but I'm as old as dirt by now. And I've spent all that "age" in seeing the Kremlin as unworthy of trust as it is. Brief interludes notwithstanding.

And in case it has (conveniently as always) escaped your attention, Ukraine is as much a part of Europe as the Baltic States are and the former Warsaw Pact States were, in those times the totally oppressed half of Germany included.

So don't give me this pap of the ever-benevolent Kremlin that has only been always misunderstood and always on account of the evil Yanks that guarded my arse against it for decades.
 
Westphalian said:
Given that the Russophobes amongst you are in one of your 'Russia didn't muster many troops for its military exercise' moods, can you tell us why a NATO exercise on Russia's borders involving a force bigger than you say Russia mustered for Vostok 18 is necessary?

Given that you now claim NATO's exercise is bigger than Russia's (which was entirely within its own borders) - who is acting as the aggressor, the more threatening? Based on your claims, Trident Juncture is un-necessarily provocative.
Click to expand...

Possible answers..

Because we can.
As a warning to an expansionist power.
It looks cool.
Chicks dig it.
Better after mission parties.

Pick one.
 
Fledermaus said:
Possible answers..

Because we can.
As a warning to an expansionist power.
It looks cool.
Chicks dig it.
Better after mission parties.

Pick one.
Click to expand...
4th option.

Any time :mrgreen:
 
Chagos said:
I dunno how old you are Wes, but I'm as old as dirt by now. And I've spent all that "age" in seeing the Kremlin as unworthy of trust as it is. Brief interludes notwithstanding.

And in case it has (conveniently as always) escaped your attention, Ukraine is as much a part of Europe as the Baltic States are and the former Warsaw Pact States were, in those times the totally oppressed half of Germany included.

So don't give me this pap of the ever-benevolent Kremlin that has only been always misunderstood and always on account of the evil Yanks that guarded my arse against it for decades.
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The thing is that the Soviet Union was a defensive power. We feared US invasion. They hated communism as a threat to their own ideology. We never threatened anyone, and even the invasions of Hungary, Czech were purely defensive. Soviet defense strategy was entirely non aggressive. It was about buffer zones to protect the Russian heart.

The US hated us then and they hate us now. The reason for this, the common factor, is the US obsession with supremacy. The US is the empire builder, and Europe is full of its loyal subjects. The problem now is that Russia has lost its buffer zones. Take Ukraine away and we're forced into a corner of needing to militarise our western border. And that would mean hundreds if not thousands of medium range missiles to target European cities, which would also be a useful deterrent against a US first strike. And yes, I'm sorry that Europe becomes more of a target, but you can blame Washngiton for that because that's what they want.
 
Westphalian said:
The thing is that the Soviet Union was a defensive power. We feared US invasion. They hated communism as a threat to their own ideology. We never threatened anyone, and even the invasions of Hungary, Czech were purely defensive. Soviet defense strategy was entirely non aggressive. It was about buffer zones to protect the Russian heart.............~
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On account of being your usual distortion of history, this is such blatant tripe that it deserves no further address.

Only thing worthy of recognition being your acknowledgement of the Hungary and Czechoslovakia incidents having constituted actual invasions.

I won't address the rest of your post for the usual reasons, except to point out that hundreds of Russian medium range missiles pointing at European cities is hardly something new.
 
Westphalian said:
The thing is that the Soviet Union was a defensive power....
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such TV.ru BS. you forgot to added one word: (dirty (c)) COMMIE World revolution is the far-left Marxist - Leninist concept of overthrowing capitalism in all countries through the conscious revolutionary action of the organized working class. These revolutions would not necessarily occur simultaneously, but where and when local conditions allowed a revolutionary party to successfully replace bourgeois ownership and rule, and install a workers' state based on social ownership of the means of production
 
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