5 dead, 16 hospitalized in mass shooting at Highland Park Fourth of July parade, shooter being sought

[Parrish]

Does anyone wonder why when it's a Caucasian shooter he's automatically mentally ill but when it's a "minority" they're automatically labeled as criminals?
Are we saying as a country that "minorities" can't be mentally ill or that Caucasians can't be criminals?

I do wonder about how we accept these assumptions.

You have a point. A strong one.

 

[Parrish]

But it really doesn't. That could mean anything.

Pray tell, @TobyOne . I'm listening.

 

[Josie]

Does anyone wonder why when it's a Caucasian shooter he's automatically mentally ill but when it's a "minority" they're automatically labeled as criminals?
Are we saying as a country that "minorities" can't be mentally ill or that Caucasians can't be criminals?

I do wonder about how we accept these assumptions.

Eh? Pretty sure we all called Cho mentally ill.

 

[Mongidig]

Press conference--6 dead, 24 sent to hospital. Gun (rifle) recovered, but gunman still on the loose. White male, black long hair, small build.

Added--he's described as between 18-20 years old.

18-20 years old. Starting to see a trend. Let me guess he posted pictures of his guns on social media. I think you should have to apply for a permit to be on social media. A mental screening should be required.

Parents…For goodness sake take your kids devices away. Take away their video games. You’re grooming future sociopaths and you don’t even know it.

 

[TobyOne]

It's likely the guy rapper with pink hair in pink goggles who has a weird picture of him with a Trump flag was either joking or mocking Trump. "All you need to know" are his likes on Twitter. More compelling evidcence of his political alignment than a goof pic.

Pray tell, @TobyOne . I'm listening.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Sure, what actions did he take that would warrant him being put in a mental institution and/ or stripped of rights before this incident? You claim you want to do anything, so please show it.

And there's the rub - do we institutionalize people for being weird? Who gets to define "weird?" What if they are introverts? Loners? Like guns? If they say something that sounds like advocating violence juat once, or repeatedly? If the latter, how many times to they get to say it before we detain them? Who gets to decide whether they are a threat - a government appointed medical board? What's the potential for state overreach/abuse?

So many pitfalls.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Does anyone wonder why when it's a Caucasian shooter he's automatically mentally ill but when it's a "minority" they're automatically labeled as criminals?
Are we saying as a country that "minorities" can't be mentally ill or that Caucasians can't be criminals?

I do wonder about how we accept these assumptions.

I think you answered your own question.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Will stricter federal gun laws prevent someone from acquiring a firearm illegally in a nation with more guns than people? All of the people who call for strict gun control seem to think so.

Strawman.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Anyone who makes videos about wanting to shoot people needs to be under psychiatric care

Freedom of speech, and liberty.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Anyone who makes videos about wanting to shoot people needs to be under psychiatric care.

What if someone talks flippantly about shooting someone?

 

[Josie]

Strawman.

No.....

The point is that crazy people like this idiot, like Lanza, like Cho, like Cruz, like Holmes --- they aren't going to follow any federal gun laws. They will easily find a weapon and carry out their violent fantasies. Stricter gun control laws aren't going to stop them.

 

[Lursa]

Not in the least.

Murder by guns, suicide by guns, accidental death and injury by guns, it is ALL the ACCEPTABLE COLLATERAL DAMAGE we are willing to accept for the FREEDOM to keep and bear arms.

Suicide by gun is intentional, even if the person is mentally ill. I dont accept that as collateral damage but that's just IMO. And so I dont believe that I, as a citizen, should be penalized for someone else's sickness or choices. Gun suicides make up 2/3 of the 36,000 gun deaths/yr in the US and for the most part, are not a danger to the public. Yes tragic but why should I, as a responsible gun owner, be punished for their personal troubles?

So then 12,000 gun deaths/yr are tragic and obviously harm individuals and the families who grieve. But it's a matter of perspective as well, since people also use guns to defend themselves and their families. And often, the gun does not even need to be fired to do so. @Bum presents links for a hundred or more examples every month. So they also help eliminate collateral damage. How do you weigh this? Do see how it may balance out?

 

[Josie]

Freedom of speech, and liberty.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say anything you want without consequences.

 

[Josie]

What if someone talks flippantly about shooting someone?

I don't know. Depends on the situation, the history of the person, etc.

Do you think someone who has a history of speaking about wanting to kill people should be forced into psychiatric care? Why or why not?

 

[Geoist]

Or strict gun laws like they have in Chicago?

My brother lives in Illinois and owns an AR-15. Really had no trouble getting one.

 

[Lursa]

In my world you are not helpless without a gun.

Can you explain why I should have other people determine that I should be denied an advantage? Can you explain why I should be at a disadvantage (IMO just to make other people 'feel safer' which is ludicrous)?

 

[Plasmaball]

Everyone be quiet..I'm listening for conservatives in this thread..

 

[Geoist]

Well, lets see....with 57 shot and 9 dead before this happened, this brings Chicago's 4th of July weekend grand total to (as of this moment) 14 dead, and 73 wounded......Im sure the number will climb before the day is over.

What the hell is going on in Chicago?

Idk what's happening in Chicago, but this thread is about Highland Park.

 

[Lursa]

Of course you do.

You really haven't done anything to change the acceptability of it have you?

Like what? Please provide some practical legal solutions. I'm esp. interested in ones that would actually affect people with ill intent and not just punish the law-abiding who would still comply...and be left vulnerable and at a disadvantage.

 

[Lursa]

This argument hasn't held water since Columbine.

?? Really? Please source your claim. Because it seems like you havent followed up on the home lives and supervision of many of the school shooters in the last few years.

 

[Lycanthrope]

No.....

The point is that crazy people like this idiot, like Lanza, like Cho, like Cruz, like Holmes --- they aren't going to follow any federal gun laws. They will easily find a weapon and carry out their violent fantasies. Stricter gun control laws aren't going to stop them.

On that score you are entirely correct. Until the amount of guns in America is reduced significantly people obtaining them illegally to murder will continue.

Do you believe steicter gun laws might, among other effects, convince the law abiding to secure their firearms better, to help prevent these murderers from finding and using their guns to murder (e.g. Lanza)?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

On the left, black sweat with smiley face, red pants.
There's your Highland Park shooter.

 

[Geoist]

And Maple Grove is nearly as far from Minneapolis but is still a burb....as I said, not interested in hair splitting.

This is not splitting hairs. Highland Park is a completely different city.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I don't know. Depends on the situation, the history of the person, etc.

Do you think someone who has a history of speaking about wanting to kill people should be forced into psychiatric care? Why or why not?

It depends entirely on the situation. We had a POTUS talk casually about shooting someone and not losing the support of his base. Should he have been detained by the state?

 

[BlueTex]

But it really doesn't. That could mean anything.