• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

4- Charged for Attempt to Tear Down Andrew Jackson Statue

calamity said:
Maybe the president should focus on protecting our troops instead of Nazi statues.
Click to expand...

Andrew Jackson was not a Nazi, he was a Democrat.
 
VySky said:
Now prosecute and perp walk them. Max of 10 years in Federal Prison

=============

Four men have been charged in federal court for allegedly attempting to tear down the statue of former President Andrew Jackson in Lafayette Square in Washington, D.C. on Monday. They have each been charged with destruction of federal property and one has been arrested, the Department of Justice announced Saturday.

Connor Matthew Judd, 20, was taken into custody Friday, according to the DoJ. The other three men, Lee Michael Cantrell, 47, Ryan Lane, 37, and Graham Lloyd, 37, were allegedly seen on video attempting to tear down or damage the statue along with Judd.

Judd is scheduled to appear in court Monday.

4 charged for attempting to tear down Andrew Jackson statue
Click to expand...

Good. Damaging public property is a crime! Have fun in jail!
 
W_Heisenberg said:
I find it curious this dude thinks tearing down a statue is treason, but Trump providing aid and comfort to an enemy responsible for the death of American soldiers is A-OKAY.
Click to expand...

Link?
 
Court Jester said:
Andrew Jackson was not a Nazi, he was a Democrat.
Click to expand...

Literally nobody with a high-school education should think that the Democrats of the 1820's were the champions of civil rights. Reaching past the mid-twentieth century is all you guys have got, and this tactic only works on people who don't understand that political parties are not hard and fast represenatives of ideologies, but souless entities that vie for political power by appealing to various groups of people through rhetoric and (often empty) promises. Parties change depending on whatever is convienant at the time, whatever it is that will get them elected, and trade platform positions as if they were fields trading soil.

But yes, the assertion that Jackson was a Nazi is pretty ridiculous if the user meant that in a literal sense, considering that the Nazis didn't even exist until nearly a hundred years later.

If you despise the man so much that you want your political opponents to own him, then I couldn't be any more elated to hold that common ground with someone that I generally would expect to have little in common with politically or idealogically, speaking.
 
Last edited:
VySky said:
Now prosecute and perp walk them. Max of 10 years in Federal Prison

=============

Four men have been charged in federal court for allegedly attempting to tear down the statue of former President Andrew Jackson in Lafayette Square in Washington, D.C. on Monday. They have each been charged with destruction of federal property and one has been arrested, the Department of Justice announced Saturday.

Connor Matthew Judd, 20, was taken into custody Friday, according to the DoJ. The other three men, Lee Michael Cantrell, 47, Ryan Lane, 37, and Graham Lloyd, 37, were allegedly seen on video attempting to tear down or damage the statue along with Judd.

Judd is scheduled to appear in court Monday.

4 charged for attempting to tear down Andrew Jackson statue
Click to expand...

10 years seems harsh for a first offense. We already have vandalism laws on the books. You fit the time to the crime, and 10 years for this does not fit. Trump's EO was a bone to his base down South, and completely out of order with the crimes.
 
Deuce said:
There's a difference between remembering our terrible past and praising our terrible past. Would you agree?
Click to expand...

Nobody is praising it, that's the point. Statues are nothing more than markers in time. That's all they are. When you look at the names of all of the fallen at the Vietnam Memorial, do you think "baby killers??" Of course not. Yet, at the time that those men fought, they were despised. When stateside many of those soldiers were spit at and screamed at for being horrible Americans, fighting an illegitimate war. Jane Fonda was the darling of liberal America then, visiting the Vietcong and brandishing their weapons. It was a terrible time. We had huge demonstrations and defections to Canada. And you know, lots of the people that fought in that war are alive today, and the protesters that called them every name in the book including "traitors" and "baby killers" are also alive today. Jane Fonda still acts now and then. How is it that both sides of that terrible time have moved on?? And how is it that the Vietnam Memorial stands today in honor of lives lost without it being weaponized as a symbol for one side or another?? The hatred then was palpable, but it's faded away. It's gone because we've moved on. We evolve, that's what we do. And that's what happened after the Civil War. People moved on. Southern soldiers went home and both Northern and Southern soldiers lived their lives and passed away, maybe leaving a bit of their genetics and a few discoveries with us so we could carry on. And we do. We move forward. We can't go backwards now and hold the past accountable because if we do, we are regressing, both emotionally and intellectually. What remains of the Civil War are some beautiful statues of people that lived long ago and a lot of bones deep within the soil of deserted battle grounds. But we should keep those markers in time, for no other reason, than to thank humanity for teaching us a bitter lesson, and making the sacrifices THEN so we could learn and move on, while we do the same - I hope - for future generations. Thanks!!
 
VySky said:
I don't have to explain Anfifa exist. You have issue with the level of their influence. Regardless, of your opinion, perp walk is coming for some of their weak and entitled members. The AG of the US has identified Antifa as a Terrorist Org. JV team you say?
Click to expand...

Antifa is an organization? Okay. Where is their headquarters? Who are the key players? Who are the members? Where do they keep their money? How is the funding coming in? How do they communicate with each other? Who is the FBI monitoring now? What other groups are affiliated with them?
 
I, for one will not condone lawlessness. tearing down statues is mostly illegal. if they want the statues down there is a proper way to go about it.
 
tres borrachos said:
Antifa is an organization? Okay. Where is their headquarters? Who are the key players? Who are the members? Where do they keep their money? How is the funding coming in? How do they communicate with each other? Who is the FBI monitoring now? What other groups are affiliated with them?
Click to expand...
Modern technology eliminates the need for 'headquarters and the instructions can come from anywhere in the world. OWS, for example, was organized out of Vancouver, Canada.

They might be funded by the Democrats, just as BLM is.
 
Fred C Dobbs II said:
Interesting that three of these people are mature adults who should know better..
Click to expand...

Like the "mature adult" in the oval office who molests women because, "when you're famous they let you"?
 
Fred C Dobbs II said:
Who is 'praising the past'? The past will always be there no matter how many buildings renamed, books burned, or statues destroyed.
Click to expand...
Um, yes. Exactly.

That's why taking down statues of monsters is not "destroying history."


Those looking back on this period will see nothing but nihilism and the attempted, possibly successful, destruction of a country that's lasted 244 years. No nation can long survive the ignorance we see in the US today.
Click to expand...
Correct. The right wing has gone off the cliff. They're beyond help. A death cult.
 
Fred C Dobbs II said:
No. Try to focus.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying, you advocate people in power being "mature adults" yet you support probably the most pedantic moron ever elected. It's real conundrum!
 
Good!

The organized defacement of public property we are seeing is creating a "broken window" effect that feeds on itself and contributes to a general sense of lawlessness and chaos.

Time to rein in the idiots.

If you don't like the statue then do the work to remove it. Start a petition, gather signatures. You know, democracy.
 
Deuce said:
Um, yes. Exactly.

That's why taking down statues of monsters is not "destroying history."
Click to expand...
Then what's the point? Is it not trying to erase the past?

Hans Christian Heg was a monster? Perhaps you don't realize just how very stupid these people are.
Correct. The right wing has gone off the cliff. They're beyond help. A death cult.
Click to expand...
And how have you determined that?
 
Fred C Dobbs II said:
Then what's the point? Is it not trying to erase the past?
Click to expand...

No, the goal has never been "erasing history."

History doesn't come from statues. It's in books. There are no statues of Hitler. You know who he was, right?
 
yankintx said:
10 years seems harsh for a first offense. We already have vandalism laws on the books. You fit the time to the crime, and 10 years for this does not fit. Trump's EO was a bone to his base down South, and completely out of order with the crimes.
Click to expand...

Funny, I was thinking 10 years is too light a sentence. I'd say 25 years with time off for good behavior would cure people from thinking about destroying other people's property. But hey, I'm a guy who believes the death penalty is appropriate for rapists and child molesters, and life in prison for anyone who uses a gun in a crime where some innocent person is injured. But then death penalty if they do kill someone in a crime.

This is why I believe the cop who murdered George Floyd should get the death penalty if found guilty of murder. When there is clear evidence and witnesses to a murder (not just circumstantial) then by all means the harshest punishments work.

In Singapore you can get 6 months in jail for spitting on the ground. Guess what? People in Singapore think twice about spitting on the ground.
 
VySky said:
Those 4 are just the beginning. Barr is on the case and Antifa is crapping their pants
Click to expand...

Barr would do better to save his focus for his own case(s) which he will have to face when his Mob Boss is removed from office...
 
RealityNow said:
Barr would do better to save his focus for his own case(s) which he will have to face when his Mob Boss is removed from office...
Click to expand...

OH please stop with this very silly nonsense! Nothing is going to happen to AG Barr when he leaves office! :cuckoo:
 
yankintx said:
10 years seems harsh for a first offense. We already have vandalism laws on the books. You fit the time to the crime, and 10 years for this does not fit. Trump's EO was a bone to his base down South, and completely out of order with the crimes.
Click to expand...

Passed by congress and signed into law by the president!

1666. Destruction Of Government Property -- 18 U.S.C. § 1361

Section 1361 protects "any property" of the United States or an agency or department thereof, or any property being manufactured or constructed for the United States or an agency or department thereof, from willful depredation or attempted depredation. "Depredation" has been characterized as the act of plundering, robbing, pillaging or laying waste. United States v. Jenkins, 554 F.2d 783, 786 (6th Cir. 1977); cf. Deal v. United States, 274 U.S. 277, 283 (1927) ("depredation" defined in context of postal statute).

This section prohibits actual physical damage or destruction of both real and personal property, but mere adverse possession of that property without physical harm is insufficient to violate the law. United States v. Jenkins, supra, 554 F.2d at 785. Section 1361 is a specific intent crime, see United States v. Jones, 607 F.2d 269, 273-74 (9th Cir. 1979), cert. denied, 444 U.S. 1085 (1980), and the government must prove that the defendant acted willfully; that is intentionally, with knowledge that he/she is violating a law. United States v. Simpson, 460 F.2d 515, 518 (9th Cir. 1972); United States v. Moylan, 417 F.2d 1002, 1004 (4th Cir. 1969), cert. denied, 397 U.S. 910 (1970). The government is not required to prove that defendant knew the property belonged to the government, because government ownership is "merely a 'jurisdictional fact'." United States v. LaPorta, 46 F.3d 152, 158 (2d Cir. 1994), quoting United States v. Feola, 420 U.S. 671 (1975). In fact, title or possession by the United States is not a necessary element of this offense, if the property in question was being made for the United States.

The government must present evidence establishing value of damage. United States v. Seaman, 18 F.3d 649, 651 (9th Cir. 1994). The penalties for violations of this section are tied to the extent of the property damage. As amended on September 13, 1994, if the damage exceeds $100, the defendant is subject to a fine of up to $250,000, ten years imprisonment, or both. See Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, Pub. L. 103-322, § 330016, 108 Stat. 1796, 2146-47 (1994). When property damage does not exceed $100, the offense is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $100,000, one year imprisonment, or both. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 3559(a), 3571.


18 U.S. Code § 1361. Government property or contracts



Whoever willfully injures or commits any depredation against any property of the United States, or of any department or agency thereof, or any property which has been or is being manufactured or constructed for the United States, or any department or agency thereof, or attempts to commit any of the foregoing offenses, shall be punished as follows:

If the damage or attempted damage to such property exceeds the sum of $1,000, by a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than ten years, or both; if the damage or attempted damage to such property does not exceed the sum of $1,000, by a fine under this title or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both.

18 U.S. Code SS 1361 - Government property or contracts | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute
 
joko104 said:
The no-name story has been completely debunked - but that won't stop the Democratic MSM and it's cult worshippers repeating the lie over and over.
Click to expand...

Was it debunked or just denied?
 
Deuce said:
No, the goal has never been "erasing history."

History doesn't come from statues. It's in books. There are no statues of Hitler. You know who he was, right?
Click to expand...

The subtlety of the leftist mind cannot make it through the day without another Hitler reference.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom