3,000 Americans volunteer to fight invading Russian forces in Ukraine, says report

[lemmiwinx]

Problem number one; fighting Putin with what he believes are NATO troops could invite his missiles to your lovely country-and mine. That could be the end of us all.

Putin reminded the world before and after he invaded Ukraine that Russia is a nuclear power. He's using his nukes to acquire territory there is no question of that. The West is warned against giving fighter jets to Ukraine. Should Putin be given full reign to do as he wants?

 

[Chillfolks]

No. If American citizens make a personal choice to go to a war zone for the purpose of fighting, completely independent of any government operation or war, then that makes those entirely non-American policy deaths. If you go to Ukraine to fight and die, the American government is under no obligation to respond militarily or even diplomatically.



The tricky part as I see it isn’t in how the The United States government takes responsibility for Americans independently going to fight (they don’t), but in how to convince Putin that the United States government didn’t send them to fight to in the first place.

You’re never going to convince Putin of that. US citizens going to fight will only throw gas on the fire. I can respect their desire to help but it’s a bad idea

 

[Cardinal]

You’re never going to convince Putin of that. US citizens going to fight will only throw gas on the fire. I can respect their desire to help but it’s a bad idea

I can't disagree with that.

 

[EnigmaO01]

US citizens going to fight and die for democracy coming home in body bags can not go unanswere, especially when an administration has spent so much time trying to pawn themselves off as the champions of democracy.

As of now the US is not in direct conflict but once we send in “advisors“ with guns we are in the war no matter what you want to call it. It’s one thing to watch but a different to fight

It's their choice to fight over there unlike troops that are drafted. I think you're overreacting. I don't recall Americans getting that upset about the death of mercenaries.

So what's your point? Should we not support the Ukes at all? Or are you just being a critic with no solution like several posters here?

 

[EnigmaO01]

You’re never going to convince Putin of that. US citizens going to fight will only throw gas on the fire. I can respect their desire to help but it’s a bad idea

We can't stop them. It's a free country as long as they aren't active military, NG's, or Reserves. Even if the administration could and wanted to how would that look? Putin would be laughing his ass off.

 

[EnigmaO01]

View attachment 67379218

He's too fat. He's never make it through any kind of vigorous physical training. He looks like McDonalds is his daily meal.

 

[EnigmaO01]

No one yet, but if we see a moderately large number of US citizens come home in body bags that has historically been the first step in our involvement. That is why I can understand people wishing to fight, and the US government doing all it can to discourage that.

It's their choice. No one needs to cry tears for them if they come back in body bags. At least some of those guys probably thrive in combat vs. sitting on their asses at home.

 

[Napoleon]

Putin reminded the world before and after he invaded Ukraine that Russia is a nuclear power. He's using his nukes to acquire territory there is no question of that. The West is warned against giving fighter jets to Ukraine. Should Putin be given full reign to do as he wants?

Putin should be given the latitude he’s entitled to for invading a non-NATO member State. Despite all of his nationalist tough talk, Zelensky has been desperately trying to drag us into a direct war with Russia from day one and we shouldn’t take the bait. If a bunch of Americans want to go over there and compete for a Darwin Award then so be it, but they do so at their own peril and should know they have been disowned by the United States for the duration.

 

[Cardinal]

It's their choice to fight over there unlike troops that are drafted. I think you're overreacting.

So what's your point? Should we not support the Ukes at all? Or are you just being a critic with no solution like several posters here?

The issue is that if you're trying to avoid American forces being in direct combat with Russian forces for fear of escalating to WWIII, the optics are difficult when the combatants in direct conflict (state sanctioned or not) are...Americans. In fact, if I were an American ambassador in Moscow and my counterpart demanded I explain the presence of American fighters in Ukraine, I have no idea what I'd tell him that would sound convincing.

 

[EnigmaO01]

One situation which could occur, should Americans fight for Ukraine against the Russians, would be their capture by the Russians.

They will then become bargaining chips.

That would not be beneficial to either the US nor to Ukraine.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.

I don't think the U.S is in any mood to have people that went over there on their own volition as a concern. They are covering their ass by discouraging them from going.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Putin should be given the latitude he’s entitled to for invading a non-NATO member State. Despite all of his nationalist tough talk, Zelensky has been desperately trying to drag us into a direct war with Russia from day one and we shouldn’t take the bait. If a bunch of Americans want to go over there and compete for a Darwin Award then so be it, but they do so at their peril and should know they have been disowned by the United States for the duration.

Entitled too? WTF?!

 

[Phys251]

Putin should be given the latitude he’s entitled to for invading a non-NATO member State. Despite all of his nationalist tough talk, Zelensky has been desperately trying to drag us into a direct war with Russia from day one and we shouldn’t take the bait. If a bunch of Americans want to go over there and compete for a Darwin Award then so be it, but they do so at their peril and should know they have been disowned by the United States for the duration.

Stop spewing Russian propaganda. Putin should be given zero latitude. Zero.

 

[EnigmaO01]

We've got to think of a way to attack Russia with conventional weapons. Strafe the Kremlin. I'm serious. This is bullshit.

Not a good idea.

 

[Napoleon]

Entitled too? WTF?!

Yes. Entitled to. The rules are clear. Proxy wars are one thing, but NATO does not directly insert itself into any conflict that doesn’t involve the defense of a NATO member State. That’s the playbook everyone operates under. Putin can savage Ukraine to his heart’s content while NATO watches from a distance, but if he steps one toe into Poland NATO will unleash a world of pain.

Stop spewing Russian propaganda. Putin should be given zero latitude. Zero.

So when are we parachuting you over Kyiv to join Zelensky’s Foreign Legion?

 

[uptower]

It's their choice. No one needs to cry tears for them if they come back in body bags. At least some of those guys probably thrive in combat vs. sitting on their asses at home.

There's that. At least I hope they come home with their eyes open, having got it out of their system.

 

[EnigmaO01]

The issue is that if you're trying to avoid American forces being in direct combat with Russian forces for fear of escalating to WWIII, the optics are difficult when the combatants in direct conflict (state sanctioned or not) are...Americans. In fact, if I were an American ambassador in Moscow and my counterpart demanded I explain the presence of American fighters in Ukraine, I have no idea what I'd tell him that would sound convincing.

1. We can't stop these people from going over there

2. They won't be designated as any American official unit.

3. The U.S. has covered their ass by discouraging them to volunteer.

You think Russia has a problem with their own mercenaries? Mercenaries are common practice by Russia.

The fear of Chilifolks's U.S, anxiety over body bags is silly. Nobody gets worked up over Mercenaries.

Years ago after my dad had retired from Special Forces in 1973 he was asked if he wanted to volunteer to be part of a mercenary group going into Africa. He turned it down and I'm glad he did. That whole group was caught and executed. It was just a blip in the news. No one cared.

 

[Chillfolks]

It's their choice to fight over there unlike troops that are drafted. I think you're overreacting. I don't recall Americans getting that upset about the death of mercenaries.

So what's your point?

My point is dead Americans are going to be terrible optics. He Russians will see it as direct aggression sanctioned or not. It would harm any peace negotiations that are being worked on.

Should we not support the Ukes at all?

Never said that. I don’t think having US giving direct support is a good idea but as part of a multinational group Ike nato is the better solution.

Or are you just being a critic with no solution like several posters here?

I don’t have the perfect solution but my answer is to keep the US out of direct individual conflict or confrontation and keep all negotiations or restrictions as multinational as possible.

As terrible as this is, making sure it does not spark WW3 with other nations starting conflicts around the globe is imperative.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Yes. Entitled to. The rules are clear. Proxy wars are one thing, but NATO does not directly insert itself into any conflict that doesn’t involve the defense of a NATO member State. That’s the playbook everyone operates under. Putin can savage Ukraine to his heart’s content while NATO watches from a distance, but if he steps one toe into Poland NATO will unleash a world of pain.


So when are we parachuting you over Kyiv to join Zelensky’s Foreign Legion?

Good grief Putin was ENTITLED to run rough shod over Ukraine just because it wasn't part of NATO. WTF is wrong with you?

And what a question to ask someone that doesn't agree with you. BTW I did put on a uniform even though I never saw combat, but I was willing to risk my life if asked to. Have you? I normally don't think it's right to challenge someone on that but since you brought it up...

 

[EnigmaO01]

My point is dead Americans are going to be terrible optics. He Russians will see it as direct aggression sanctioned or not. It would harm any peace negotiations that are being worked on.

He's going to already claim the Americans are directly involved regardless. So don't fret about it.

Never said that. I don’t think having US giving direct support is a good idea but as part of a multinational group Ike nato is the better solution.

I don’t have the perfect solution but my answer is to keep the US out of direct individual conflict or confrontation and keep all negotiations or restrictions as multinational as possible.

As terrible as this is, making sure it does not spark WW3 with other nations starting conflicts around the globe is imperative.

I agree with you for the most part, but can't help feeling we are being held back by our fears while a bully is pulverizing an innocent kid on the playground.

 

[Cardinal]

1. We can't stop these people from going over there

There are direct travel bans, but ultimately that's true and we probably can't.

2. They won't be designated as any American official unit.

The issue isn't what we officially designate them; it's what Russian authorities perceive.

3. The U.S. has covered their ass by discouraging them to volunteer.

Absolutely true, but this explanation will fall short if it's given to somebody who's paranoia is dialed to 11.

You think Russia has a problem with their own mercenaries? Mercenaries are common practice by Russia.

If I were to post a complete list of abominable actions by Russia here, the impact on this site would be tantamount to a DDOS attack. But that's not the point.

Years ago after my dad had retired from Special Forces in 1973 he was asked if he wanted to volunteer to be part of a mercenary group going into Africa. He turned it down and I'm glad he did. That whole group was caught and executed. It was just a blip in the news. No one cared.

Which country?

 

[Chillfolks]

He's going to already claim the Americans are directly involved regardless. So don't fret about it.

Claiming it is one thing it’s a he said she said issue, parading a dozen or so US citizens caught fighting in the Ukraine in front of cameras as proof is a lot harder to defend.

I agree with you for the most part, but can't help feeling we are being held back by our fears while a bully is pulverizing an innocent kid on the playground.

I see your point but in this case the bully and his gang of thugs have the power to wipe out the entire playground before you can jump off the swings. Best to get your gang together for the rumble and have superior numbers

 

[EnigmaO01]

There are direct travel bans, but ultimately that's true and we probably can't.



The issue isn't what we officially designate them; it's what Russian authorities perceive.



Absolutely true, but this explanation will fall short if it's given to somebody who's paranoia is dialed to 11.



If I were to post a complete list of abominable actions by Russia here, the impact on this site would be tantamount to a DDOS attack. But that's not the point.



Which country?

I'll have to ask him. Will get back with you.

 

[Cardinal]

I'll have to ask him. Will get back with you.

No rush. Just curious.

 

[lemmiwinx]

Putin should be given the latitude he’s entitled to for invading a non-NATO member State. Despite all of his nationalist tough talk, Zelensky has been desperately trying to drag us into a direct war with Russia from day one and we shouldn’t take the bait. If a bunch of Americans want to go over there and compete for a Darwin Award then so be it, but they do so at their own peril and should know they have been disowned by the United States for the duration.

Putin is a KGB thug who wormed his way into power. Now Russia has brought war again to civilized Europe who thought they'd grown beyond that sort of behavior. It's time for Sweden and Finland to join NATO, agree?

 

[Roadvirus]

Is there a precedent for this?

Fighting Tigers...in China...against Japan...