2016 Trump inherited a smooth running country and healthy economy, in 3 plus years ruined it

[Sand Castle]

Do you know how to read? "Don't ask for a link, I learned this as a volunteer patient at RU for cardiac genetic and stem cell therapies, direct from researchers, long prior to this outbreak."

Let's move beyond your tall tale to facts:

Trump’s failures began years ago
When Bolton became Trump’s national security adviser in 2018, he quickly moved to disband the White House National Security Council’s Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense, which President Barack Obama set up after the 2014-2016 Ebola outbreak to lead federal coordination and preparation for disease outbreaks.

In April 2018, Bolton fired Tom Bossert, then the homeland security adviser, who, the Washington Post reported, “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks.” Then, that May, Bolton let go the head of pandemic response, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, and his global health security team. The team, the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense, was never replaced.


Tom Bossert, then the homeland security adviser, was fired by John Bolton in 2018. Bossert had called for a strategy against pandemics. Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post via Getty Images
At the time, the Trump administration and Bolton argued the cuts were needed to streamline the National Security Council.

But, according to experts, the work of a global health security team, or something like it, is crucial to responding to any disease outbreak. Since the federal government is sprawling and large, it helps to have centralized leadership in case of a crisis. That leadership could ensure all federal agencies are doing the most they can and working toward a single set of goals.

But it’s important to have this kind of agency set up before an outbreak. Setting up an agency takes time; it requires hiring staff, handing out tasks and expected workloads, creating internal policies, and so on. A preexisting agency is also going to have plans worked out before an outbreak, with likely contingencies in place for what to do. That’s why it was so important to have this agency in place even during years, like 2018, when disease pandemics didn’t seem like a nearby threat to everyone.

Coronavirus: Trump’s botched response, explained - Vox

 

[Idontbelonghere]

I'm not happy about it, I have 16 grandkids who all speak the same language, "buy me...feed me." I'm always truly amazed by the medicals sciences and arts, and just as amazed by how much we don't know.

Feel free to steal, I was a fan of Abbie Hoffman's Steal This Book. At the least, the title.

Ha!

You’re in the lead on the grandkids count. I’m at 2. I’d love to have 16! Or would I? Two is kind of expensive...

My grandkids are too young to speak anything other than “buy me, feed me”, but my children haven’t spoken that language (in my presence) for quite some time. My kids are married to a devout socialist and staunch dyed-in-the-wool Republican, respectively. Family gatherings are always fun when those two start arguing while the rest of us smile and share knowing looks. For some strange reason the debate subsides when I walk in the room. :lamo

 

[Sand Castle]

Wow - your post is so damned full of bull**** you could open an 10,000 acre organic vegetable farm and fertilize it for 10 years. You'd think after using the forum limit for characters in a post, random chance would be on your side for at last one factual statement - no such luck; all you've posted is total nonsense.

Then dispute my facts with evidence, have you read my evidence and researched a rebuttle? Obviously not. Just a blabbering bunch of nothing.

 

[Bullseye]

I think it's hilarious that it seems the worst the Trump cultists have to call Biden is "senile", "old" and "ghost". Keep that up, maybe it'll work.

Even worse, however, are the legions of Demdroits shaking their heads in unison and chanting "Uh, uh, Uncle Joe, is NOT senile".

 

[Bullseye]

Then dispute my facts with evidence, have you read my evidence and researched a rebuttle? Obviously not. Just a blabbering bunch of nothing.

Not worth the effort, Trumpophobia is less curable than COVID19.

 

[Sand Castle]

Not worth the effort, Trumpophobia is less curable than COVID19.

Your posting history reveals no effort ever to research and present cited facts. So it's not about me being worth it, you would rather babble nonsense then do the hardwork.

This forum is not twitter where blurbs of your choice are just thrown out. This is a debate forum with each side presenting their case.

 

[TomFitz]

This has been proven incorrect and not what happened. but not matter how many times you are shown this or the facts involved you do not care.
which is why it makes 0 difference what is said or posted. you simply don't give a rats ass about facts or truth.

yet you continue complain and cry about lying and yet continue to lie and spout lies.

When Trumpsters double down on false claims, one has to conclude that one is either talking to a victim of a con, or a liar. Take your pick.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-efforts-to-prevent-global-disease-outbreak/

 

[OldFatGuy]

No evidence then. You consider yourself trained enough in epidemiology to speak to us about what researchers told you in passing? Cardiac researchers? who are not trained in epidemiology.

The problem is you offer no real evidence and then in advance you call it heresay, believe me. Then you offer a timeline that doesn't add up. You debated a point using a false story to support your claim. All to provide cover for trump's failure to retain the pandemic team.

Below is your claim, with your version of cardiologists, not epidemiologist. But the best of your tale is when you admit to hearing from researchers long before the outbreak and then want us to believe that long before the outbreak a hot subject between you and the cardiac researchers was not saving you life, but a fully informative conversation on the need for a pandemic team. Really why would that come out as you said "long before the outbreak."

You wrote/ your timeline:

Don't ask for a link, I learned this as a volunteer patient at RU for cardiac genetic and stem cell therapies, direct from researchers, long prior to this outbreak.

According to researchers at Rockefeller University, one of our foremost epidemiology research centers, pandemic response teams would have stood useless against any and all viral outbreaks, because of our minimal understanding of virus transfer mechanisms and our lack of understanding about virus genetics and their almost instant mutation abilities.

Is anything you wrote true?

Good to know you are illiterate. And frankly, I could care less about Trump or any of our politicians other than for laughs.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Let's move beyond your tall tale to facts:

No. I am not interested in the slightest. Take your opinions to someone who cares, or shove them where the moon doesn't shine. Whatever floats your boat best.

 

[Sand Castle]

No. I am not interested in the slightest. Take your opinions to someone who cares, or shove them where the moon doesn't shine. Whatever floats your boat best.

Like jack nicholson once said: You can't handle the truth

 

[Sand Castle]

Good to know you are illiterate. And frankly, I could care less about Trump or any of our politicians other than for laughs.

Then why bring up the pandemic team as the premise of your post? You have been caught selling cultist tales for your leader trump and you don't like being exposed, so you attack me like a caged animal.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Ha!

You’re in the lead on the grandkids count. I’m at 2. I’d love to have 16! Or would I? Two is kind of expensive...

My grandkids are too young to speak anything other than “buy me, feed me”, but my children haven’t spoken that language (in my presence) for quite some time. My kids are married to a devout socialist and staunch dyed-in-the-wool Republican, respectively. Family gatherings are always fun when those two start arguing while the rest of us smile and share knowing looks. For some strange reason the debate subsides when I walk in the room. :lamo

We raised 4 incorrigible good for nothing kids, it was great fun. They've all done well and I'm thankful. My oldest son, a former Army doctor, lost his first wife too young. Resigned to care of his two boys. Joined a support group for widows and widowers, met his second wife, an RN, who had lost her husband too early, with two daughters who I inherited when they married. Somehow, it must have been magic, they had twin boys, now seven years old and the bane of my existence. More problematic, I married their grandmother, my daughter in law's mother, both of us also widowed. It was a case of hate at first sight for both of us. I don't how that got so twisted.

I moan and groan about all of them, but love them all dearly, and we are all close, making for good reasons to stay alive. Too much not to enjoy. Plus I still have two older sisters, their families and those of my three brothers who have passed, always ready to join the fray. I admit, sometimes I confuse who are cousins, which is which, who is who, and where their friends fit into the scheme of things. One side benefit, they all love music, all play something, which can be an assault on the ears, but they keep me abreast of all that they are listening to and keep me current and relatively grounded. A blessing since music has always been my joy. And both of my wives have been and are piano players to add to the cacophony. To top it off I am also the great grandfather of one, brought into this world by my oldest granddaughter at the end of last summer and her otherwise useless husband. :roll: Both working hard and finishing college. Life is good.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Like jack nicholson once said: You can't handle the truth

Your vision of the truth doesn't interest me.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Then why bring up the pandemic team as the premise of your post? You have been caught selling cultist tales for your leader trump and you don't like being exposed, so you attack me like a caged animal.

When you can prove pandemic teams work to improve and not worsen epidemics, let me know.

In the meantime medical researchers all over this world are seeking solutions, what exactly are you doing other than mouth off? I don't pretend to have answers, yet you do.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Meanwhile, the right is still in denial about reality.

Yep, plain and simple.....and sadly pathetic.

 

[Jay59]

I Another Trumpster whistling past the graveyard.

We can trade stories on 3 November.

For the record, I was anti-Trump four years ago. I didn't think he could win and his situation was much worse than it is now.

LOL. If only it was that easy.

What kind of jerk laughs about people dying?

It's not easy, but it is simple. We will survive and clean up the mess. Tears will be shed along the way.

 

[Condor060]

Let's move beyond your tall tale to facts:

Trump’s failures began years ago
When Bolton became Trump’s national security adviser in 2018, he quickly moved to disband the White House National Security Council’s Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense, which President Barack Obama set up after the 2014-2016 Ebola outbreak to lead federal coordination and preparation for disease outbreaks.

In April 2018, Bolton fired Tom Bossert, then the homeland security adviser, who, the Washington Post reported, “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks.” Then, that May, Bolton let go the head of pandemic response, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, and his global health security team. The team, the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense, was never replaced.

Tom Bossert, then the homeland security adviser, was fired by John Bolton in 2018. Bossert had called for a strategy against pandemics. Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post via Getty Images
At the time, the Trump administration and Bolton argued the cuts were needed to streamline the National Security Council.

But, according to experts, the work of a global health security team, or something like it, is crucial to responding to any disease outbreak. Since the federal government is sprawling and large, it helps to have centralized leadership in case of a crisis. That leadership could ensure all federal agencies are doing the most they can and working toward a single set of goals.

But it’s important to have this kind of agency set up before an outbreak. Setting up an agency takes time; it requires hiring staff, handing out tasks and expected workloads, creating internal policies, and so on. A preexisting agency is also going to have plans worked out before an outbreak, with likely contingencies in place for what to do. That’s why it was so important to have this agency in place even during years, like 2018, when disease pandemics didn’t seem like a nearby threat to everyone.

Coronavirus: Trump’s botched response, explained - Vox

Since you are so obviously concerned about things that take time, I noticed you mentioned Obama's H1N1 disaster.

H1N1 appeared in March 2009, in California, then spread to infect people in Texas, New York, and assorted other states by mid-April.

On April 26, 2009, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services declared Swine Flu a public health emergency.

Obama didn't lift a finger.

7 months after the outbreak, On October 24, 2009, Obama finally declared Swine Flu a national emergency in the United States.

By then the CDC reported an estimated 22 million Americans had been infected with 2009 A H1N1 and over 4,000 American fatalities.

So tell me again how Trump declaring this a national emergency with around 80 fatalities at the time in less than 40 days or his jump in January for travel restrictions from China was so much worse than Obama's reaction and over 4000 dead.

 

[ludin]

When Trumpsters double down on false claims, one has to conclude that one is either talking to a victim of a con, or a liar. Take your pick.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-efforts-to-prevent-global-disease-outbreak/

when leftist continue their lying and are easily disproved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

 

[ludin]

Since you are so obviously concerned about things that take time, I noticed you mentioned Obama's H1N1 disaster.

H1N1 appeared in March 2009, in California, then spread to infect people in Texas, New York, and assorted other states by mid-April.

On April 26, 2009, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services declared Swine Flu a public health emergency.

Obama didn't lift a finger.

7 months after the outbreak, On October 24, 2009, Obama finally declared Swine Flu a national emergency in the United States.

By then the CDC reported an estimated 22 million Americans had been infected with 2009 A H1N1 and over 4,000 American fatalities.

So tell me again how Trump declaring this a national emergency with around 80 fatalities at the time in less than 40 days or his jump in January for travel restrictions from China was so much worse than Obama's reaction and over 4000 dead.

You have to understand that these people do not care about facts and reason.

 

[Sand Castle]

Since you are so obviously concerned about things that take time, I noticed you mentioned Obama's H1N1 disaster.

H1N1 appeared in March 2009, in California, then spread to infect people in Texas, New York, and assorted other states by mid-April.

On April 26, 2009, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services declared Swine Flu a public health emergency.

Obama didn't lift a finger.

7 months after the outbreak, On October 24, 2009, Obama finally declared Swine Flu a national emergency in the United States.

By then the CDC reported an estimated 22 million Americans had been infected with 2009 A H1N1 and over 4,000 American fatalities.

So tell me again how Trump declaring this a national emergency with around 80 fatalities at the time in less than 40 days or his jump in January for travel restrictions from China was so much worse than Obama's reaction and over 4000 dead.

No evidence of your claim. Who are you aiming the lies for? Yourself? The Cult?

Let me help you free yourself from the cult and the need to endlessly lie

Contrary to? Trump’s suggestion that the Obama administration did “nothing,” officials declared a public health emergency early in the H1N1 outbreak, secured funding from Congress and ultimately declared a national emergency, as we’ll explain below.

On top of that, the CDC sequenced the new virus, created testing kits, and the Food and Drug Administration approved multiple vaccines, among other actions.

Rep. Michael Burgess, a Republican from Texas, praised the CDC at a House hearing in 2016 for quickly developing a vaccine for the swine flu in about six months — in time for the start of the school year in September 2009. “So that’s a 6-month time frame if I’m doing my math correctly that you were able to identify the genetic sequence of the virus, reverse engineer a vaccine, test it, assure its safety and efficacy, and get it to school teachers on the second week of school. That’s pretty impressive,” he said.

Trump said in a tweet that the Obama administration’s response to the 2009 H1N1 pandemic “was a full scale disaster.” While he can have that opinion, there is little to support such a negative view.

A New York Times article from January 2010 said that while some mistakes were made, a variety of experts thought the administration had generally handled things well.

William Schaffner of Vanderbilt University School of Medicine told the Times that officials deserved “at least a B-plus,” while Mount Sinai virologist Peter Palese called the overall response “excellent.”

Obama’s Emergency Declarations
In one tweet, Trump quoted Fox Business Network’s Lou Dobbs as misleadingly claiming that it “took 6 months for President Obama to declare a National Emergency” for the H1N1 “swine flu” outbreak that “killed 12,000 Americans.” It’s true that Obama didn’t declare a national emergency for six months, but that ignores several other steps the administration took, including declaring a public health emergency the same month that the novel H1N1 infections were first reported.

At the time of the tweet, Trump had not yet declared a national emergency for COVID-19.

(Dobbs’ actual quote was slightly different. He said on his March 12 show that it “took six months for President Obama to then declare a national emergency, one that ultimately killed more than 12,000 Americans and infected 60 million more.”)

On April 15, 2009, the first infection was identified in California, according to the CDC, and less than two weeks later, on April 26, 2009, the Obama administration declared a public health emergency. The day before, on April 25, the World Health Organization had declared a public health emergency.

Dr. Richard Besser, then-acting director of the CDC, confirmed to the press on the day of the U.S. declaration that there were 20 cases of H1N1 in the U.S., and that “all of the individuals in this country who have been identified as cases have recovered.”

The same day — April 26 — the CDC began releasing antiviral drugs to treat the H1N1 flu, and two days later, the FDA approved a new CDC test for the disease, according to a CDC timeline on the pandemic.

On April 30, 2009, two days after the public health emergency declaration, Obama formally asked Congress for $1.5 billion to fight the outbreak, and later asked for nearly $9 billion, according a September 2009 Congressional Research Service report. On June 26, 2009, Obama signed Congress’ supplemental appropriation bill that included $7.7 billion for the outbreak.

The U.S. public health emergency was renewed twice — on July 24, 2009, and Oct. 1, 2009.

Trump’s H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic Spin - FactCheck.org

Let's not forget under Obama and H1N1 no panic, no total financial collapse. Under trump-ouch!

 

[TomFitz]

when leftist continue their lying and are easily disproved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Typically dishonest of you.

You try and move the goalposts.

I never said it was dissolved. Nor, did my link make that claim.

So, in order to refute a claim I did not make, you had to put words in my mouth, construct your straw man argument, and refute yourself.

That isn’t the first time, either.

It was significantly defunded. Apparantly, as Morrison noted in your link, this is part of Trump’s over all efforts to neuter and weaken American international efforts and destroy the class of professional advisors.

Morrison also told Congress that he thought that Sondland and Crazy Uncle Rudy (and his two Russian bag men) were up to no good, dangerous and irresponsible.

 

[ludin]

Typically dishonest of you.

You try and move the goalposts.

I never said it was dissolved. It was significantly defunded. Apparantly, as Morrison noted in your link, this is part of Trump’s over all efforts to neuter and weaken American international efforts and destroy the class of professional advisors.

Morrison also told Congress that he thought that Sondland and Crazy Uncle Rudy (and his two Russian bag men) were up to no good, dangerous and irresponsible.

i didn't move the goal posts at all. typical dishonest of a leftist.
the fact is that it still exists and is still running.
when you are not overstaffed you don't need as many people so naturally the budget is going to go down.


the rest of your post belongs in the conspiracy theory forum.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

IIRC the last what? 7-8 days the DOW has gone up, or down at least 1,000 points.. Amazing, talk about a roller coaster.

But the real eye opener is every time Trump talked to try and calm WS, instead of 'calm' stocks crashed ever worse. This quarter and next the financials are going to look very ugly.

No one has any confidence in Trump, he lies so often no one knows what the truth is anymore. Stimulus packages passes, but still futures are down this morning...

 

[Sand Castle]

when leftist continue their lying and are easily disproved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Let's take a closer look at Tim Morrison's biased opinion you posted. A closer look will reveal morrison's motive. morrison's opinion is about the disasterous series of event's he is covering his ass for.

GOVERNMENT

Donald Trump Didn’t Disband Pandemic Team, He Did Far Worse

Mar 17, 2020 at 12:47 PM
When we started hearing that the Trump administration sowed the seeds for the lackluster response to this outbreak by firing the nation’s whole pandemic preparedness team a few years ago, it was genuinely disturbing how unsurprising it was.

But former administration officials are now pushing back against the report that Trump recklessly fired the response team of experts by claiming… he didn’t dissolve the team at all. An odd flex given that Donald Trump already admitted that he fired everyone in the office, explaining that he didn’t want people on the payroll when there wasn’t an active threat and “when we need them, we can get them back very quickly.”

And while being comically contradicted by Trump himself should end the inquiry, the managerial lackeys who actually staked their careers on this debacle are taking to the press to try and defend their crumbling professional reputations.

Tim Morrison, a former NSC official, wrote to the Washington Post claiming, “No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. I was there.” It’s an editorial earning a lot of plaudits from John Bolton, Morrison’s former boss. who is also deeply implicated in this move since he oversaw the decision. Right-wing Twitter is sending it around in… I don’t know… some kind of weird attempt to claim that whatever Trump did with the team isn’t why the response has been so badly botched?

It’s also an editorial that seems to woefully misunderstand both “pandemics” and “preparedness.”

Morrison’s claim is that he ran the successor organization to the pandemic preparedness group, a move that cut most of the minds behind the original, but…

One such move at the NSC was to create the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate, which was the result of consolidating three directorates into one, given the obvious overlap between arms control and nonproliferation, weapons of mass destruction terrorism, and global health and biodefense. It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled

Morrison and Bolton are publicly arguing that they aren’t responsible for dismantling a highly praised pandemic team because they buried its mission under the auspices of an arms control and bioterror unit. Except those are security threats predicated upon predicting and remediating human state and non-state actors.

Like the revolving door corporate hacks that they are, the administration made its cuts about “efficiency” rather than “results” and somehow has the gall to pretend they were right when the whole operation crashes around them.

Diseases might come from bioterrorism, but they’re far more likely to come from the serendipity of mutation. If some entity were planning a bioterror attack, it would focus on agents that are highly lethal and, necessarily, not highly contagious — diseases can’t survive when they kill the host.

This is precisely why an organization charged with gameplanning terrorist attacks is ill-suited to deal with traditional pandemics. The whole frame of reference is wrong.

Donald Trump Didn’t Disband Pandemic Team, He Did Far Worse | Above the Law

Tim Morrison an arms control expert running some convoluted reminence of a response team, more trump incopetence. Versus well trained epidemiologist that had their budgets cut leading to disbandment

 

[ludin]

Let's take a closer look at Tim Morrison's biased opinion you posted. A closer look will reveal morrison's motive. morrison's opinion is about the disasterous series of event's he is covering his ass for.

GOVERNMENT

Donald Trump Didn’t Disband Pandemic Team, He Did Far Worse

Mar 17, 2020 at 12:47 PM
When we started hearing that the Trump administration sowed the seeds for the lackluster response to this outbreak by firing the nation’s whole pandemic preparedness team a few years ago, it was genuinely disturbing how unsurprising it was.

But former administration officials are now pushing back against the report that Trump recklessly fired the response team of experts by claiming… he didn’t dissolve the team at all. An odd flex given that Donald Trump already admitted that he fired everyone in the office, explaining that he didn’t want people on the payroll when there wasn’t an active threat and “when we need them, we can get them back very quickly.”

And while being comically contradicted by Trump himself should end the inquiry, the managerial lackeys who actually staked their careers on this debacle are taking to the press to try and defend their crumbling professional reputations.

Tim Morrison, a former NSC official, wrote to the Washington Post claiming, “No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. I was there.” It’s an editorial earning a lot of plaudits from John Bolton, Morrison’s former boss. who is also deeply implicated in this move since he oversaw the decision. Right-wing Twitter is sending it around in… I don’t know… some kind of weird attempt to claim that whatever Trump did with the team isn’t why the response has been so badly botched?

It’s also an editorial that seems to woefully misunderstand both “pandemics” and “preparedness.”

Morrison’s claim is that he ran the successor organization to the pandemic preparedness group, a move that cut most of the minds behind the original, but…

One such move at the NSC was to create the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate, which was the result of consolidating three directorates into one, given the obvious overlap between arms control and nonproliferation, weapons of mass destruction terrorism, and global health and biodefense. It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled

Morrison and Bolton are publicly arguing that they aren’t responsible for dismantling a highly praised pandemic team because they buried its mission under the auspices of an arms control and bioterror unit. Except those are security threats predicated upon predicting and remediating human state and non-state actors.

Like the revolving door corporate hacks that they are, the administration made its cuts about “efficiency” rather than “results” and somehow has the gall to pretend they were right when the whole operation crashes around them.

Diseases might come from bioterrorism, but they’re far more likely to come from the serendipity of mutation. If some entity were planning a bioterror attack, it would focus on agents that are highly lethal and, necessarily, not highly contagious — diseases can’t survive when they kill the host.

This is precisely why an organization charged with gameplanning terrorist attacks is ill-suited to deal with traditional pandemics. The whole frame of reference is wrong.

Donald Trump Didn’t Disband Pandemic Team, He Did Far Worse | Above the Law

i honestly don't care what your leftist blog has to say. they were not there and their opinion is irrelevant, much like your OP.