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2012 European Football Championships Qualifying thread

Well, Israel didn't help themselves with a goalless draw last night. They used to produce some good strikers - I remember one guy spent time at Liverpool FC some years ago.

They used to have Eyal Berkovitch, a truly great player. One of the most talented guys I've ever seen. Played for Man City btw, in case you hadn't guessed.

I don't understand the conspiracy theory about Greece. Why would anyone think UEFA would favour them? They do play horrible, negative, defensive football - a bit like a less talented Italian side - but I can't think of any reason UEFA would want them to qualify instead of Israel.
 
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They used to have Eyal Berkovitch, a truly great player. One of the most talented guys I've ever seen. Played for Man City btw, in case you hadn't guessed.

I don't understand the conspiracy theory about Greece. Why would anyone think UEFA would favour them? They do play horrible, negative, defensive football - a bit like a less talented Italian side - but I can't think of any reason UEFA would want them to qualify instead of Israel.

Well one reason... Israel aint in Europe and should be in the Asian confederation. I could understand on principle why UEFA would not want a non European team in the European Championship. But as long as politics influence the game as it does in this case, then I dont see any other choice. Now this is just a theory, and frankly I dont hold much merit in it since UEFA has never to my knowledge favoured a national team over another....To be honest it sounds more like an excuse in case the Israeli team does not meet expectations in a relatively easy group.

Then again they have in the club game when they this year denied Mallorca access to the UEFA cup due to having a horrible economy, but let teams like Man United, Liverpool in with debt levels many many many times higher.
 
They used to have Eyal Berkovitch, a truly great player. One of the most talented guys I've ever seen. Played for Man City btw, in case you hadn't guessed.

I don't understand the conspiracy theory about Greece. Why would anyone think UEFA would favour them? They do play horrible, negative, defensive football - a bit like a less talented Italian side - but I can't think of any reason UEFA would want them to qualify instead of Israel.

I'm not sure I was speaking about UEFA involvement, more like "secret agreements" between countries.
You wash my back now, I'll wash your back later kind of agreements.

Sort of like how Cyprus and Greece always give 12 points to each other in the Eurovision.
 
I'm not sure I was speaking about UEFA involvement, more like "secret agreements" between countries.
You wash my back now, I'll wash your back later kind of agreements.

Sort of like how Cyprus and Greece always give 12 points to each other in the Eurovision.

Never seen that in international football. There has been plenty of accusations of course, but most were just from sore losers. I believe a few years ago Denmark and Sweden were accused of it by some team. Denmark and Sweden needed to draw and they would go through, where as the 3rd team needed to win plus either Denmark or Sweden to lose. As it turned out the Denmark vs Sweden game ended a draw and the accusations flew at them. But having seen the game, then both teams went at it for the win. There was a ton of yellow cards, and quite a few balls hitting the goal posts and bars. UEFA dismissed the accusations as idiotic.
 
Never seen that in international football. There has been plenty of accusations of course, but most were just from sore losers. I believe a few years ago Denmark and Sweden were accused of it by some team. Denmark and Sweden needed to draw and they would go through, where as the 3rd team needed to win plus either Denmark or Sweden to lose. As it turned out the Denmark vs Sweden game ended a draw and the accusations flew at them. But having seen the game, then both teams went at it for the win. There was a ton of yellow cards, and quite a few balls hitting the goal posts and bars. UEFA dismissed the accusations as idiotic.

I remember that in one of the 80's world cups I believe there was a situation in one of the groups where the two leading teams have only needed a draw so they can both move on to the knockouts round, and the game was clearly sold out.
Can't recall the exact teams though but I think Germany was one of them.
 
I'm not sure I was speaking about UEFA involvement, more like "secret agreements" between countries.
You wash my back now, I'll wash your back later kind of agreements.

Sort of like how Cyprus and Greece always give 12 points to each other in the Eurovision.

That's happened many times in football. Anyone remember a German-Austrian game a few WCs ago? I think it happened in SA this year too, but don't remember the countries involved, I think they may have been S. American. Nevertheless, do Greece and Malta have much in common? Are they close allies?

I disagree with Pete about the politics of Israel being in UEFA. I note that Kazakhstan, Armenia and Azerbaijan are all also in UEFA, which makes no more sense geographically speaking.
 
I remember that in one of the 80's world cups I believe there was a situation in one of the groups where the two leading teams have only needed a draw so they can both move on to the knockouts round, and the game was clearly sold out.
Can't recall the exact teams though but I think Germany was one of them.

Ahh yea I remember that one.... but to be fair, anyone would do that if it was the last 15 min, which I believe it was. Most of the game was full out attack by both.
 
I disagree with Pete about the politics of Israel being in UEFA. I note that Kazakhstan, Armenia and Azerbaijan are all also in UEFA, which makes no more sense geographically speaking.

Actually, geographically, under most definitions (i.e. the Urals), those countries are in Europe.
 
That's happened many times in football. Anyone remember a German-Austrian game a few WCs ago? I think it happened in SA this year too, but don't remember the countries involved, I think they may have been S. American. Nevertheless, do Greece and Malta have much in common? Are they close allies?

I disagree with Pete about the politics of Israel being in UEFA. I note that Kazakhstan, Armenia and Azerbaijan are all also in UEFA, which makes no more sense geographically speaking.

I disagree it happens based on political situations. It does happen and has happened on a relative playing aspect where both teams would go through on a draw.. why risk going out with 20 min to go? Nothing political in that.. a bit unethical maybe, but nothing wrong it it really.

As for the Israel and UEFA comment, it is not one I aspire too at all, but it is one that could be claimed to be a potential reason UEFA did not want Israel to go to the Euros. Does not mean as I stated, that I remotely believe it since UEFA has always been very a-political for the most part.

And Israel has been a member of the Asian Football Association up to 1974 and in 1994 they joined UEFA. As for Armenia and Azerbaijan, they can arguably be considered in Europe since they are on the right side of the Urals which traditionally is seen as the divide between Europe and Asia.. Kazakstan is a whole other matter that I personally think is because of its ties to the former USSR in part. But then again, we have non countries in UEFA too.. England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales :)
 
As for the Israel and UEFA comment, it is not one I aspire too at all, but it is one that could be claimed to be a potential reason UEFA did not want Israel to go to the Euros. Does not mean as I stated, that I remotely believe it since UEFA has always been very a-political for the most part.

And Israel has been a member of the Asian Football Association up to 1974 and in 1994 they joined UEFA. As for Armenia and Azerbaijan, they can arguably be considered in Europe since they are on the right side of the Urals which traditionally is seen as the divide between Europe and Asia.. Kazakstan is a whole other matter that I personally think is because of its ties to the former USSR in part. But then again, we have non countries in UEFA too.. England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales :)

Israel is further to the west of the Urals than Armenia and Azerbaijan. This just speaks to the almost impossibly imprecise geographical definition of Europe. If you use the Urals as the easternmost frontier, you'd probably have to accept that the Caucasus forms the southern frontier. Armenia and Azerbaijan both lie to the south of the Caucasus. As does Israel. And Cyprus and Malta. Geography has nothing to do with it.

The case of Kazakhstan is an anomaly. They were in the Asian federation until 2006. They have much less claim to European status than about 20 other countries who are not in UEFA. Makes absolutely no sense.
 
Israel is further to the west of the Urals than Armenia and Azerbaijan. This just speaks to the almost impossibly imprecise geographical definition of Europe. If you use the Urals as the easternmost frontier, you'd probably have to accept that the Caucasus forms the southern frontier. Armenia and Azerbaijan both lie to the south of the Caucasus.

Erm, those places are the Caucasus.

he case of Kazakhstan is an anomaly. They were in the Asian federation until 2006. They have much less claim to European status than about 20 other countries who are not in UEFA. Makes absolutely no sense.

They have a small part of land in the Urals, dubious I know, but geographically they are as European as, say, Turkey.
 
Israel is within the European Broadcasting Area, that is why it can participate in European cultural events such as sport tournaments and the Eurovision.
That and the fact that most of the Muslim nations are obviously boycotting Israel in such cultural events.
In fact, in the recent teen Olympic games in Singapore an Israeli teenager has won the Taekwondo competition because his Iranian counterpart has refused to meet him in the final.
They see the contesting in a cultural event together with an Israeli representative as the recognition of Israel's legitimacy to exist.

That's why Israel was pretty much forced to move to the European events, and don't think that it's so much better, it's way harder to get into the world cup that way and Israel has only managed to enter one world cup during its entire existence.
 
Israel is within the European Broadcasting Area, that is why it can participate in European cultural events such as sport tournaments and the Eurovision.
That and the fact that most of the Muslim nations are obviously boycotting Israel in such cultural events.
In fact, in the recent teen Olympic games in Singapore an Israeli teenager has won the Taekwondo competition because his Iranian counterpart has refused to meet him in the final.
They see the contesting in a cultural event together with an Israeli representative as the recognition of Israel's legitimacy to exist.
All true, and Israel's participation in UEFA seems like the only logical solution to this. It seems uncontroversial to me.

That's why Israel was pretty much forced to move to the European events, and don't think that it's so much better, it's way harder to get into the world cup that way and Israel has only managed to enter one world cup during its entire existence.

I think there are plenty of countries of similar size to Israel, or much larger, that have never competed in a WC finals competition. You just need to keep plugging away. Is football the no.1 sport in Israel anyway? Forgive the ignorance.
 
I think there are plenty of countries of similar size to Israel, or much larger, that have never competed in a WC finals competition. You just need to keep plugging away. Is football the no.1 sport in Israel anyway? Forgive the ignorance.

I dunno how you calculate a nation's top sport, whether due to success or due to popularity.

Basketball is no.1 in success in Israel, and 2nd in popularity. We've been making it through the Eurobasket competition's qualifications rounds for 20 years now non-stop, tenth time in a row.
Although we didn't get very high over there (7th place was the highest), but Maccabi Tel-Aviv was the leading basketball club in all of Europe for quite some years and has won European championships and titles.

Football though is no.1 in popularity. We're also great in smaller sports like beach football and handball, but football and basketball are the most popular sports around here.
 
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Israel is within the European Broadcasting Area, that is why it can participate in European cultural events such as sport tournaments and the Eurovision.
That and the fact that most of the Muslim nations are obviously boycotting Israel in such cultural events.
In fact, in the recent teen Olympic games in Singapore an Israeli teenager has won the Taekwondo competition because his Iranian counterpart has refused to meet him in the final.
They see the contesting in a cultural event together with an Israeli representative as the recognition of Israel's legitimacy to exist.

That's why Israel was pretty much forced to move to the European events, and don't think that it's so much better, it's way harder to get into the world cup that way and Israel has only managed to enter one world cup during its entire existence.

Funny enough, Australia moved to the Asian confederation last world cup qualification to up their chances of qualifying because in their old Oceanic confederation they were forced to play a play-off against the 5th placed South American team, which often ended in a loss to the South American's. Ironically, New Zealand went and beat the 5th placed South American's and went to the world cup.

Now Israel could gain a better chance by joining the Asian confederation but then all that political bull**** in the middle east comes up and **** it to be honest. Maybe Israel should join the Oceanic confederation and slug it out with New Zealand to meet the 5th places South American's hehe, might up your chances.

But saying that, this years Euro qualifying group... Israel's chances are frankly huge if they can get more consistent.
 
Israel is further to the west of the Urals than Armenia and Azerbaijan.

Israel is a special case. It was kicked out or left the Asian confederation because of the political issues in the middle east. Naturally it should be in the Asian confederation along Syria, Saudi Arabia and so on.


This just speaks to the almost impossibly imprecise geographical definition of Europe. If you use the Urals as the easternmost frontier, you'd probably have to accept that the Caucasus forms the southern frontier. Armenia and Azerbaijan both lie to the south of the Caucasus. As does Israel. And Cyprus and Malta. Geography has nothing to do with it.

Actually it does. The Caucasus is considered part of Europe and hence part of UEFA. Anything west of the Urals and North of the Turkey is considered part of Europe in that area, and all Islands in the Med are considered part of Europe since before biblical times. So it is only natural Cyrpus and Malta are part of UEFA.

The case of Kazakhstan is an anomaly. They were in the Asian federation until 2006. They have much less claim to European status than about 20 other countries who are not in UEFA. Makes absolutely no sense.

Only claim they have is that they are like Russia.. part of both.. although Kazakhstan is as I stated "barely" part of the European part, but it does have land to the west of the Urals as far as I can see.

Googles billedresultat for http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/73/373-004-99BC97B9.gif

Not sure the link works, but it shows the Urals and part of Kazakhstan is on the "right side" of the mountains. But I agree it is thin argument heh. Maybe FIFA and UEFA and Asian Confederation needed to move Kazakhstan to UEFA because of the huge number of countries in the Asian Confederation. It is by far the largest confederation.
 
Israel is a special case. It was kicked out or left the Asian confederation because of the political issues in the middle east. Naturally it should be in the Asian confederation along Syria, Saudi Arabia and so on.




Actually it does. The Caucasus is considered part of Europe and hence part of UEFA. Anything west of the Urals and North of the Turkey is considered part of Europe in that area, and all Islands in the Med are considered part of Europe since before biblical times. So it is only natural Cyrpus and Malta are part of UEFA.



Only claim they have is that they are like Russia.. part of both.. although Kazakhstan is as I stated "barely" part of the European part, but it does have land to the west of the Urals as far as I can see.

Googles billedresultat for http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/73/373-004-99BC97B9.gif

Not sure the link works, but it shows the Urals and part of Kazakhstan is on the "right side" of the mountains. But I agree it is thin argument heh. Maybe FIFA and UEFA and Asian Confederation needed to move Kazakhstan to UEFA because of the huge number of countries in the Asian Confederation. It is by far the largest confederation.

Anyway, enough of geography and back to footie. Did anyone notice that the great improvement in England's performance from the sad days of June came as a result of the inclusion of 5 players from Manchester City? You know, the team that are single-handedly ruining English football by buying too many foreigners, according to the pundits. I enjoyed the irony.

I also enjoyed the fact that, despite being second-best for most of the game, Argentina beat Spain, thus inflicting further humiliation on Diego Armando. I don't think the Spanish are losing much sleep over it though.
 
I also enjoyed the fact that, despite being second-best for most of the game, Argentina beat Spain, thus inflicting further humiliation on Diego Armando. I don't think the Spanish are losing much sleep over it though.

First half was horrible from Spain.. totally shut down.. Second half they owned Argentina totally.. was it 3 or 4 times it hit the woodwork?
 
They used to have Eyal Berkovitch, a truly great player. One of the most talented guys I've ever seen. Played for Man City btw, in case you hadn't guessed.

Hope he was good because he was good and not because of Man City... (actually, I think I remember him a good dribbler?)

I don't understand the conspiracy theory about Greece. Why would anyone think UEFA would favour them? They do play horrible, negative, defensive football - a bit like a less talented Italian side - but I can't think of any reason UEFA would want them to qualify instead of Israel.

No, this was about "agreements between teams" that are sometimes rumoured to have happened.

Never seen that in international football --

Most famous example is the 6 goals that Argentina needed against Peru. Brazil had beaten Peru 3-0 and in the very last match there were jokes by the commentators about Peru rolling over for the required amount...

YouTube - 1978 WC Group B Argentina v Peru

I was 14 years old and watched the match (incredulous) live.
 
First half was horrible from Spain.. totally shut down.. Second half they owned Argentina totally.. was it 3 or 4 times it hit the woodwork?

It was 4. They'd have won if Silva and Pedrito had played the whole game.
 
Hope he was good because he was good and not because of Man City... (actually, I think I remember him a good dribbler?)
He was just good. We were lucky to have him given what a pile of cack the club was at the time. Definitely one of my favourite City players of all time, along with Kinky, the Goat, Paul Walsh and Dennis Tueart.


No, this was about "agreements between teams" that are sometimes rumoured to have happened.
Okay, I just don't get why Greece and Malta would cooperate, unless we're talking about brown-paper packages.


Most famous example is the 6 goals that Argentina needed against Peru. Brazil had beaten Peru 3-0 and in the very last match there were jokes by the commentators about Peru rolling over for the required amount...

I was 14 years old and watched the match (incredulous) live.

I remember, I was 16 at the time. Appalling cynicism, and FIFA can't touch you for it.
 
Anyone watched Germany - Turkey yesterday?
Looked like the majority of the fans there were Turkish, due to the huge Turkish population of Germany.
 
Anyone watched Germany - Turkey yesterday?
Looked like the majority of the fans there were Turkish, due to the huge Turkish population of Germany.

Didn't help them much though, did it?

Well done to N. Ireland for holding Italy to a draw, quite a result for one of the smallest nations in the competition.
 
Didn't help them much though, did it?

Well done to N. Ireland for holding Italy to a draw, quite a result for one of the smallest nations in the competition.

You mean well done to Italy for holding N. Ireland to a draw.
After the world cup you just can't tell whether they'd be able to do it or not. :lol:
 
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