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2011 NFL Lockout Thread

Gipper

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Yeah I've been keeping up on the CBA stuff. Players just get greedier and greedier.

They should've played in the 50s 60s and 70s. Some of those players actually took second jobs in the offseason to keep food on the plate.

Sorry if today's crop doesn't get enough guaranteed money to put gas in the fleet of Bentleys in the garage of that 10 million dollar mansion.
 

zimmer

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The following paragraph almost made me projectile vomit.

Are the players sympathetic to the owners’ concerns?

Yes, but they’re also skeptical. For one thing, when the players hear the owners talk about “risk,” some of them cringe. As one put it recently: “They’re taking risks? We’re the ones risking our health on a regular basis – we all know there’s a 100 percent injury rate in the NFL. Give me a break.” Players also are dubious of the insinuation by some owners that their profit margins have been vastly reduced under the current deal.
Fans' guide to NFL labor battle - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

1. Most have been granted college scholarships, so they should be prepared for life after football. If not... tough farking darts mate, you blew it... now back to reality.

2. Nobody is forcing anyone to play. If it is so dangerous... and you are concerned for your health... stop playing. Take up table tennis.

3. The owner shouldn't be collective bargaining profits. They should be negotiating contracts 1 on 1 with the players. It's not the players business... and if they don't like the contract... there's always a 9 to 5 job waiting... after Obama's ass is booted back to Chicago.

I'm not against them making money, but these guys are out to lunch.
I hope they strike the Scabs take over and the union is busted... the last bit ain't gonna happen but it is wishful thinking.

.
 
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Cold Highway

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I agree with both you. I remember when the talks started up again after the Super Bowl, Drew Brees was this class act slamming the players who wanted more pension money that they shouldve been wise with their money instead of blowing it all.
 

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excellent article with considerable depth
the local owner - one of the four mentioned - has certainly positioned his team to be subject to few guaranteed salaries. that would indicate he expects a significant period where no play will result
one of the major factors appears to be one in which the players should have NO interest: the subsidies of the lowest earning 17 teams and defining which expenditures are legitimate when examining profitability

a facilitator should be hired to initiate interest based bargaining, instructing each side to come to the table with a list of interests rather than positions. it is my experience that each side will be surprised by the number of shared interests they have. that makes implementation of those interests easier to negotiate

while the following for football is MUCH greater than that of professional baseball, both sides would be well advised to recognize how the baseball strike depressed fan interest in that game
 

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excellent article with considerable depth
the local owner - one of the four mentioned - has certainly positioned his team to be subject to few guaranteed salaries. that would indicate he expects a significant period where no play will result
one of the major factors appears to be one in which the players should have NO interest: the subsidies of the lowest earning 17 teams and defining which expenditures are legitimate when examining profitability

a facilitator should be hired to initiate interest based bargaining, instructing each side to come to the table with a list of interests rather than positions. it is my experience that each side will be surprised by the number of shared interests they have. that makes implementation of those interests easier to negotiate

while the following for football is MUCH greater than that of professional baseball, both sides would be well advised to recognize how the baseball strike depressed fan interest in that game

There is only one strike I can think of that improved the game; the ast NHL strike.
They made rule changes; less cutch and grab... and man... the game is fast and furious, and now a 3 goal lead going into the last period is no guarantee of victory.

The NFL... if the strike... wil be interesting. There's always college ball.

.
 

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Yeah I've been keeping up on the CBA stuff. Players just get greedier and greedier.

They should've played in the 50s 60s and 70s. Some of those players actually took second jobs in the offseason to keep food on the plate.

Sorry if today's crop doesn't get enough guaranteed money to put gas in the fleet of Bentleys in the garage of that 10 million dollar mansion.

I am going to say it is the owners who are getting greedy. They want a bigger pie with 18 games, less payroll, and they want taxpayers to build their stadiums for them and not pay rent all the while living in million dollar mansions. No matter how the players of old played. it isn't the same game. The players deserve all their money since they most likely are going to end up like Steve Smith or other retired players who can't pay for their medical expenses.

I like how some here are saying that if players don't want to play for the money offered then they can quit. Isn't that this strike is? They are making their choice not to play for the the owners are offering.
 
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Your Star

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There is only one strike I can think of that improved the game; the ast NHL strike.
They made rule changes; less cutch and grab... and man... the game is fast and furious, and now a 3 goal lead going into the last period is no guarantee of victory.

The NFL... if the strike... wil be interesting. There's always college ball.

.

Yep, I totally agree with this. The NHL lockout sucked so much, but the better game was worth it. The game needed to be revamped, and now skill is at the forefront of the game. If your not talented enough to play in the league, you can't make up for it with size.

But a lockout for the NFL, would only hurt the game IMO.
 

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hallam said:
I am going to say it is the owners who are getting greedy. They want a bigger pie with 18 games, less payroll, and they want taxpayers to build their stadiums for them and not pay rent all the while living in million dollar mansions. No matter how the players of old played. it isn't the same game.

Owners are going broke. For the first time in the history of the NFL, average market values of teams went down. Teams aren't like players. Teams have overhead and myriad other costs. Players have what...agents? A fleet of baby mamas they knock up at hotels around the country? Dentists who put gold in their "grillz"?

The players deserve all their money since they most likely are going to end up like Steve Smith or other retired players who can't pay for their medical expenses.

Sorry. Fresh out of sympathy. This whole concept of "guaranteed money" has been a big factor in reasons why owners are getting robbed, and why I can't empathize with players. Al Davis essentially paid 50 million guaranteed dollars for a quarterback not fit to play in the Canadian league. Granted, it was his fault for drafting him #1 overall because Davis is weird and eccentric as all hell, but damn. Just damn.

If you sit there and make tens of millions of dollars in your career and end up unable to pay your bills, then that's your fault. I'll be damned if I shed a tear for them.

I like how some here are saying that if players don't want to play for the money offered then they can quit. Isn't that this strike is? They are making their choice not to play for the the owners are offering.

While getting paid. Freaking NFLPA. I'd turn a blind eye if someone took a gun to DeMaurice's temple.
 

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Owners are going broke. For the first time in the history of the NFL, average market values of teams went down. Teams aren't like players. Teams have overhead and myriad other costs. Players have what...agents? A fleet of baby mamas they knock up at hotels around the country? Dentists who put gold in their "grillz"?

No, the owners are not going broke. They made 2 billion off the top last year off the top before overhead, payroll, and leasing stadium costs. Those billions were built into the current CB. Now if you think 32 people (mind you I know the Packers are owned by the City) getting 2 billion and considering the top 15 teams subsidize the lower 17 teams, no, the owners are not broke. If they were, the first thing they would do is open their books because that would be the easiest way to win their case in arbitration. They could directly point to their books within a confidential setting, not even letting the players see, just the arbiters, and show they were going broke. They wont even do this.


Sorry. Fresh out of sympathy. This whole concept of "guaranteed money" has been a big factor in reasons why owners are getting robbed, and why I can't empathize with players. Al Davis essentially paid 50 million guaranteed dollars for a quarterback not fit to play in the Canadian league. Granted, it was his fault for drafting him #1 overall because Davis is weird and eccentric as all hell, but damn. Just damn. If you sit there and make [hundreds] millions of dollars [as an owner] and end up unable to pay your bills, then that's your fault. I'll be damned if I shed a tear for them.(changes for owners)

Dont care for your sympathy. Just said that players deserve every penny they get.


While getting paid. Freaking NFLPA. I'd turn a blind eye if someone took a gun to DeMaurice's temple.

This is a misconception. Most players are not getting paid if the strike occurs. Their contracts state that they have to play in order to get paid. The article clearly stated that the owners will use the payroll drop off to help their cause. It is one of the main reason a work stoppage can last for a whole season. For those players who have guaranteed money and owners who have to pay players for no work, then I don't cry for them either. They signed the contract guaranteeing that money. They didn't have to do this. So if it is the players fault as they age for not being able to pay their bills, then it is definitely the owners fault guaranteeing money without stipulating the they players play for them. The NFLPA is just trying to get the best deal they can. Again, if they feel they can't, they have a right to not work. Which again, I ask. Isn't that just what this strike is about?
 
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Gipper

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They deserve every penny they get. I wouldn't mind the owners making sure those pennies are fewer. Of course, it'd just be a cry for racism.

They can go ahead and strike. Many will just scab, like last time. A rich white businessman holds the upper hand over a fleet of black athletes needing to keep wax and gas for their fleet of Bentleys.
 

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They deserve every penny they get. I wouldn't mind the owners making sure those pennies are fewer. Of course, it'd just be a cry for racism.

They can go ahead and strike. Many will just scab, like last time. A rich white businessman holds the upper hand over a fleet of black athletes needing to keep wax and gas for their fleet of Bentleys.

I don't understand the animosity against the players here. They make about as much as some middle to upper management in larger banks. They make no claims of being our heros. They just entertain us by playing a game we love.

I am for the free market here. The free market doesn't stop at the owners. If players think that the price to play is XXX, then I see no reason to disagree. They are the player. I don't play but I also don't have those skills. I am also not "against" the owners here. I like football, college more than the Pros, but i still watch Pro-football. If owners are being directly hostile to their employees for some notion of greed (especially Cincinnati's owner), then I don't see a reason to support the owners.

And frankly, the players nor I were bring up race. You did this. So your issues with white people or black people need to leave this conversation and quickly.
 

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Interesting new wrinkle: Source: NFLPA considering decertification vote - NFL - SI.com

A person familiar with the union's plans told The Associated Press on Saturday that players from all 32 teams will be asked to consider decertification, which could prevent the owners from locking out the players after the collective bargaining agreement expires in March.

The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the union has not announced its plans.

Should the union decertify, it could have the right to sue the league under antitrust laws if the players are locked out. It is sending out voting cards now because, logistically, getting enough signatures after the season would be difficult, if not impossible.
 

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Fans should go on strike. NFL build your own stadiums with no tax payer involvement. Lower your ticket, food, parking, etc prices. Players and owners make way to much to be given aid.
 

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Fans should go on strike. NFL build your own stadiums with no tax payer involvement. Lower your ticket, food, parking, etc prices. Players and owners make way to much to be given aid.

You think the players would accept the pay cuts that would follow?

Not saying I disagree with you, far from it... but that would definately lead to an exaerbation of the problems with "labor"
 

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Fans should go on strike. NFL build your own stadiums with no tax payer involvement. Lower your ticket, food, parking, etc prices. Players and owners make way to much to be given aid.

Amen. I am tired of the owners crying that they are not making any money. I am not complaining that they make money, more power to them, but they are not paupers. Someone shed a tear for joe blow blue-collar worked, who cannot afford to watch his team because of the riduculous prices it costs to go to a game.

The NFL owner have created that system that they have by paying outrages salaries for untested products, e.g. multimillion dollar contracts for persons that are busts.

They cry that their venue does not bring them money, so if a city does not build them a staduim, they threaten to move, e.g. Raiders, Cardinals, Rams, Titians.

They screw the fan from the minute they drive into the parking lot. You cannot watch it on tv unless you pay for it. Now you cannot hear it unless you pay for it.

They make money year around, the draft, preseason, regular season, playoffs, pro bowl. There is nothing wrong with that, but again don't cry pauper.

Don't kill me hear, because I have not read up on this for ages, but regarding tv rights, merchandising, etc., they all get an equal share, so it allows for team to get paid no matter how they play, example Cards make as much as Cowboys. So, often times they do even have to field a decent product. For years the Cards were cheap and played like crap, but yet, they made as much as the Cowboys, 49ers, etc.
 
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Cold Highway

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The Wall Street Journal reported the figure Wednesday, citing unidentified senior NFL officials familiar with information presented to the 32 team owners at the league's meeting in Chicago.

"People think we can have a knock-down drag-out fight and settle on March 1, and everything will be fine, and it's not true," Eric Grubman, the league's executive vice president for finance, told the newspaper.

The paper said the NFL could lose $400 million in March alone, when many season tickets are renewed, and another $500 million if preseason games are canceled next summer because of labor unrest.

Though the story said all teams were profitable, a league official told The Associated Press the NFL has never made that claim.


Report: NFL Could Lose $1 Billion in 2011, Even if Lockout's Avoided -- NFL FanHouse
 

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gotta question one of these points:
The paper said the NFL could lose $400 million in March alone, when many season tickets are renewed, and another $500 million if preseason games are canceled next summer because of labor unrest.
i can see the loss of revenue from unplayed preseason games, if the understanding is the regular season would be played
but i cannot agree with the march loss of $400 million because of unsold season tickets
that fan base, which has been deprived of preseason games, will represent a strong demand for the unsold tickets. those with the means to then pay for their season tickets will renew when a full season results, causing no loss to the team revenues and those unsold season tickets will likely be sold because of the pent up demand, with the dollars not spent on preseason games
 

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I am going to say it is the owners who are getting greedy. They want a bigger pie with 18 games, less payroll, and they want taxpayers to build their stadiums for them and not pay rent all the while living in million dollar mansions. No matter how the players of old played. it isn't the same game. The players deserve all their money since they most likely are going to end up like Steve Smith or other retired players who can't pay for their medical expenses.

I like how some here are saying that if players don't want to play for the money offered then they can quit. Isn't that this strike is? They are making their choice not to play for the the owners are offering.

HaHa That's funny. Do you even have any clue as to how much money is generated in a city when an NFL team arrives? Have you ever been to Jacksonville?

Also, if the players are wanting better health coverage, then they should have spoken out against Obamacare. Had they done that, then maybe I wold care more while I am paying $45 for parking.
 

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HaHa That's funny. Do you even have any clue as to how much money is generated in a city when an NFL team arrives? Have you ever been to Jacksonville?

Also, if the players are wanting better health coverage, then they should have spoken out against Obamacare. Had they done that, then maybe I wold care more while I am paying $45 for parking.

Live in a city with all major sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, College, and MLS) and only MLS seems to be helping its community in Philly (actually Chester) with revenue and jobs. The rest don't really contribute nor does there revenue actually help the city of Philadelphia function. In fact the Eagle sued the city over the 10 million they owed the city just so they didn't have to pay it. These stadiums don't pay for themselves even years after they are built. So your argument may hold water in some cities but not in all.

Again, I am not for players or for owners. But if players want to strike and owners want to lock-out, then I don't see a reason to disparage either group. In fact, I am okay with fostering this dissension because it only helps the MLS and the MLB get more customers. The MLS is the only reasonable sports right now. $15 to 30 dollars a game.
 

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I live in the place with the second largest stadium in the league, yet with one of the worst fan experiences. ****ty rules for tailgating, horrible parking and traffic, horrible attitude of workers, insane costs for food and drink. I can't actually make an honest feeling towards this and the owners because seriously, our owner is ****ing Daniel Snyder, its impossible for me to be objective and not want to see them reamed in the ass.

Screw you Dan Snyder
 

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Live in a city with all major sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, College, and MLS) and only MLS seems to be helping its community in Philly (actually Chester) with revenue and jobs. The rest don't really contribute nor does there revenue actually help the city of Philadelphia function. In fact the Eagle sued the city over the 10 million they owed the city just so they didn't have to pay it. These stadiums don't pay for themselves even years after they are built. So your argument may hold water in some cities but not in all.

Again, I am not for players or for owners. But if players want to strike and owners want to lock-out, then I don't see a reason to disparage either group. In fact, I am okay with fostering this dissension because it only helps the MLS and the MLB get more customers. The MLS is the only reasonable sports right now. $15 to 30 dollars a game.

Is Chicago a big enough city to have lived in? Having two baseball teams doesn't disqualify me does it? My argument holds true for all. Maybe you should go ask an owner of a sports bar what their revenue is like on a sunday during an Eagles game. If you want, I can give more examples of how money gets generated in a city because of professional sports. I will use the Flyers for my next example. After I am done running threw all the sports, I will start looking at the politicians in Philly. I have a feeling that they are probably doing a better job at screwing things up more so then any of the teams do. I imagine that a lot of the same problems have something to do with why so many live in the suburbs of Philly also.
 

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Looks like the dispute may go to the courts

Tuesday in New York City, a special master will review the complaint the NFLPA filed in June over roughly $4.5 billion in league TV contracts that are guaranteed to pay off even if no games are played next season. The union will seek to prove that the owners, in negotiating those deals, took less money than they could have got from the networks in exchange for the money being guaranteed. Specifically, the union argues that the league awarded valuable new benefits such as the RedZone channel and mobile and broadband rights to its broadcast partners for 2009 and 2010 without charging any price increases until 2011. The players argue that, because they and the owners share revenue, the owners have a responsibility to seek maximum value in broadcast deals.

Tuesday Looms as Key Date in NFL Labor Talks -- NFL FanHouse
 

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"We need to have intensive, round-the-clock negotiations, address the issues and find solutions," Goodell said. "If we're committed to doing that, I think we can be successful. I can assure that I have that sense of urgency and I think both sides do. There are no dealbreakers. There are many different ways (to) address the issues we have. In negotiations, there is give and take. That's how you get an agreement that makes the game better. The status quo is not acceptable. We have to address these issues going forward. This isn't about the next three months. It's about the next 10 years. This is about getting an agreement in place that will ensure the success of our games going forward. "

While Smith said Thursday that March 4 is a hard deadline, NFL chief counsel and lead negotiator Jeff Pash said Wednesday, "If you're making progress, you can stop the clock. It's not a Thelma and Louise situation where you just go over the cliff." Goodell termed it "a very important" date.

Get it done already, you have less than a month to get this **** sorted out

Goodell: There Are No Dealbreakers in Labor Negotiations -- NFL FanHouse
 
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