2 People Charged With Hate Crime After Vandalizing Black Lives Matter Mural in California

[Oborosen]

I wouldn't even call it a mural. Either way, this charge is complete and utter bull****.

 

[Court Jester]

I think where they got them, though I'm still reading is PEN 422.56a:


The interesting thing is at least under 422.55, anyone tearing down statues purely due to race could also be charged with a hate crime on top of Malicious Mischief (the law states Race or ethnicity as just that: race, ancestry, color, or ethnicity). Also, slightly related but 422.56d is confusing, the bias doesn't have to be the main factor of the crime, but still a substantial factor, but I guess my brain can't brain why something could be a substantial factor but not the main factor?

District attorneys in California are generally elected officials (i.e. politicians). So the manner in which a decision is made to prosecute; to not prosecute; or to charge with lesser or even ridiculously serious crimes that may not even apply to the incident, means they are free to do so. And in a state or a county where there is a SUPER MAJORITY of one party; there may be no political consequences to this kind of haphazard or retaliatory prosecution. In this city (Martinez, CA) the prosecutor will still have a job even if this case ends up in acquittal---- even at the cost to the taxpayers.

Doesn't really inspire much confidence in the justice system in my opinion. And all that they are doing to this couple is using an overcharge to leverage them into pleading this out, apologizing publicly, and the a big fine to pay to have the DAMN BLM graffiti repaired.

 

[Oborosen]

The fact that most people won't give a **** about these losers will validate your frustration. Sucks being on the wrong side of history, and yep, it's not always fair. Change is hard.

Of course, even the fair minded will probably pass on giving a ****, when complaints about violations of 1A are brought up in the defense of people attempting to remove the 1A rights of others. :shrug:

The lies of "wrong side of history & change is hard" shouldn't actually be in such a context.

They're basically being punished for being white and because their opinions didn't mesh with those in power.

I do think it's funny however. They said that this talk about the "oppression& racism" being a lie. Yet they end up being racially oppressed in retrospect.

 

[Oborosen]

They won't do any time. The prisons here in CA are overcrowded, and they let all the non-violent felons out because of the Commie Bat Fever.

Do they have a GoFundMe site for their bail/fine? I bet they cover that too.

This is why we can't have nice things. The left vandalizes all of the right's cultural memorials. The right vandalizes all of the left's. Bad monuments!

Thanks. Commie Bat Fever, is now going to be the new slogan for most of the nurses here.

...I really need to start closing my laptop before I walk away.

 

[Individual]

Should have just painted over the letter "B".

 

[Oborosen]

Nah, they're simply unwilling combatants. BLM wouldn't exist if cops weren't disproportionately using violence against black folks. You don't like BLM, fix the reason for their existence. It's a much more worthwhile expenditure of your time than making silly claims about race wars - which is especially silly, given the fact that BLM is supported by folks of all races.

Rape wouldn't exist is far-leftist didn't have so much power... See, I can play by those same idiotic rules as well.

 

[Court Jester]

The lies of "wrong side of history & change is hard" shouldn't actually be in such a context.

They're basically being punished for being white and because their opinions didn't mesh with those in power.

I do think it's funny however. They said that this talk about the "oppression& racism" being a lie. Yet they end up being racially oppressed in retrospect.

I say they should have gotten a medal for standing up against the real "hate group" which is the BLM organization.

Yusra Khogali, one of the co-founders of Black Lives Matter Toronto, tweeted about killing men and white people on Feb. 9.

Black Lives Matter Toronto co-founder responds to '''cuss/kill''' tweet controversy | CBC News

 

[OlNate]

The lies of "wrong side of history & change is hard" shouldn't actually be in such a context.

They're basically being punished for being white and because their opinions didn't mesh with those in power.

I do think it's funny however. They said that this talk about the "oppression& racism" being a lie. Yet they end up being racially oppressed in retrospect.

No, they are being punished because they painted over a mural that was put there with permission of the city.

I doubt they'd be charged with a hate crime up here, but you guys are fond of making examples down there, so I'm not surprised they went there. While hate crime designation usually is only used in extreme cases up here, it was hate. :shrug:

But, yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I reject your silly attempt at trying to paint them (excuse the unintentional pun) as victims. They did a thing, they paid the consequences. I thought you conservatives were big on personal accountability?

 

[OlNate]

Rape wouldn't exist is far-leftist didn't have so much power... See, I can play by those same idiotic rules as well.

Huh...that's quite the statement. Let's play a game, and see who can demonstrate a more cause and effect relationship to justify our statements. I think that will very quickly demonstrate who is more "idiotic". You go first.

 

[Court Jester]

No, they are being punished because they painted over a mural that was put there with permission of the city.

And you think that is a "hate crime"? How is it a hate crime, you tell us?

I doubt they'd be charged with a hate crime up here, but you guys are fond of making examples down there, so I'm not surprised they went there. While hate crime designation usually is only used in extreme cases up here, it was hate. :shrug:

Since when is opposing a radical anarchist and Marxist organization (BLM) that wants to destroy the American culture and system illegal? Was it a "hate crime" to oppose the Red Chinese? Was it a "hate crime" to oppose the Soviets? What is a "hate crime" to oppose the Imperial Japanese? Was it a "hate crime" to oppose Hitler?

But, yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I reject your silly attempt at trying to paint them (excuse the unintentional pun) as victims. They did a thing, they paid the consequences. I thought you conservatives were big on personal accountability?

Yeah, they made a political statement and vandalized city sanctioned BLM/Marxist graffitti painted onto a CITY street. Calling it a "mural" is about like calling my dog's pile of s*** a Michelangelo.

 

[OlNate]

And you think that is a "hate crime"? How is it a hate crime, you tell us?



Since when is opposing a radical anarchist and Marxist organization (BLM) that wants to destroy the American culture and system illegal? Was it a "hate crime" to oppose the Red Chinese? Was it a "hate crime" to oppose the Soviets? What is a "hate crime" to oppose the Imperial Japanese? Was it a "hate crime" to oppose Hitler?



Yeah, they made a political statement and vandalized city sanctioned BLM/Marxist graffitti painted onto a CITY street. Calling it a "mural" is about like calling my dog's pile of s*** a Michelangelo.

:lamo You seem very upset. Guess what, bud. No matter how big a temper tantrum you throw on an anonymous debate forum, BLM had the city's permission and the douchebags painting it over did not. :shrug: Suck it up, buttercup.

 

[Court Jester]

:lamo You seem very upset. Guess what, bud. No matter how big a temper tantrum you throw on an anonymous debate forum, BLM had the city's permission and the douchebags painting it over did not. :shrug: Suck it up, buttercup.

BLM is a domestic terrorist organization with members in leadership having advocated for killing white people.

Anyone who paints over a BLM slogan is fine in my book.

 

[Acadia]

BLM is a domestic terrorist organization with members in leadership having advocated for killing white people.

Anyone who paints over a BLM slogan is fine in my book.

Sadly, this is not hyperbole.

WASHINGTON (WJLA) – A former City of Fairfax police officer was murdered in Wisconsin in what police there are calling a hate crime.

Phillip A. Thiessen, 55, was riding his motorcycle in Fond du Lac County, Wisconsin when investigators say a man intentionally swerved his truck into the motorcycle because he believed all Harley riders to be "white racists."

Daniel Navarro, 27, is held on a $1 million bond and is facing charges of first-degree intentional homicide - hate crime, use of a dangerous weapon, and first-degree recklessly endangering safety - hate crime.
Former Fairfax police officer murdered in Wisconsin in alleged hate crime, police say | WJLA

This should come as a surprise to no one.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Hate Crime Charges After Black Lives Matter Mural Defaced | Time


Hate crime? For defacing a mural? If that is the case, then why arent the people who bring down statues charged with the same thing? Pure hypocrisy and a violation of the 1st Amendment.

Lucky for them there aren't any laws against being an idiot. I mean if you're going to commit a crime like that why make a video tape of it? WITH sound ? So now not only everybody can see what you're doing, but they also can hear you saying why you are doing it so that there can be no doubt as to why. That's just plain stupid. But that's Trumpsters for you.

 

[OlNate]

BLM is a domestic terrorist organization with members in leadership having advocated for killing white people.

Anyone who paints over a BLM slogan is fine in my book.

Huh...even if that includes breaking the law? Again, they had permission from the city. They did it by the books. They respected the system and worked within it to exercise their right to free speech. The folks you're crushing on broke the law and acted to suppress that right, by attempting to erase it. Are you sure you're cheering for the right people on this one?

I'm not saying BLM, the organization, hasn't made it's share of dumbassed and outright scary moves. But BLM, the movement, is based on a statistically quantifiable complaint, which is why it continues to have support by people who just want things fixed so this can all go away. What you to fail to realize, with your supreme edgelord routine, is that you simply provide the anecdotal evidence of why BLM is so important in 2020.

 

[Court Jester]

Huh...even if that includes breaking the law? Again, they had permission from the city. They did it by the books. They respected the system and worked within it to exercise their right to free speech. The folks you're crushing on broke the law and acted to suppress that right, by attempting to erase it. Are you sure you're cheering for the right people on this one?

Well let me ask you: why then no outrage over the vandalism and tearing down of statues by the left? Those statues were there by permission and a process too. Why then the selective outrage?

And yes I am cheering for the right people. They defaced the slogan put there by a domestic hate group (BLM). I never said the people didn't vandalize it, all I said is I fail to see how painting over a slogan by a HATE GROUP is now defined as a "hate crime"?

If someone defaced a swaztika (symbol of hate) would doing so be a hate crime too? BLM (the organization) is a hate group. Ranking members have called for the killing of cops, killing of white people, attacks on Jewish people. I therefore fail to see love for

I'm not saying BLM, the organization, hasn't made it's share of dumbassed and outright scary moves. But BLM, the movement....

That is like saying:

'I'm not saying the 3rd Reich/Nazi (the organization) hasn't blah, blah, blah... But the "movement".... blah, blah, blah.'

If the ORGANIZATION is bad, then DON'T include them in any so called "movement"---or use their slogans, otherwise you may be judged according to what they have said and what they are demanding in terms of violence and destruction.

How about "All Lives Matter" instead? But oh no, that is considered a "racist" idea to say "All". How bizzaro has the world become??

....[BLM the movement] is based on a statistically quantifiable complaint, which is why it continues to have support by people who just want things fixed so this can all go away. What you to fail to realize, with your supreme edgelord routine, is that you simply provide the anecdotal evidence of why BLM is so important in 2020.

Not sure what an "edgelord" is, but how about this: We can look at problems and reform police and the criminal justice system without threatening to defund and/or tear down everything leaving even worse chaos in the vacuum. Don't believe me, just look at Seattle/CHOP for the example why not.

Then I would also say fashion a new slogan, but one that doesn't need to be painted on city streets in some form of sanctioned graffiti only to enrage taxpayers and others. Lets have solutions to fix problems, not make different problems.


Well, unless BLM isn't really about a movement that is, and they are really about a revolution. Because if it not about peacefully pressing for non violent change, then BRING IT--- go ahead and bring the silly revolution and I can assure the angry push back will not just be painting over the slogans by an inflammatory organization which has advocated for violence. Not all of America is going to be such an easy push over as Seattle, or the SF bay area. I'm not advocating for violence here, I'm just predicting a violent response. But even before it may get to that, what I have been saying is that all of this silly BLM/Antifa/Occupy BS is going to do is ASSURE that Trump is reelected. Because right now the choice between your "movement" and all of the chaos it suggests, is way less appealing than the law and order argument.

 

[OlNate]

Well let me ask you: why then no outrage over the vandalism and tearing down of statues by the left? Those statues were there by permission and a process too. Why then the selective outrage?

What is "the left"? Am I "the left" because I'm a progressive? If so, awesome, I'll have you know that I am for the voluntary removal of monuments to traitors and slave owners by government bodies at the request of citizens, and I am against breaking the law, which would include unlawful vandalism of monuments to traitors and slave owners, irrespective of whether or not I'm happy to see them gone, because I feel it takes away from the point. And I'm against lazy stupidity in general, so I'll get ahead of whatever the next talking point is, and say that I'm against some of the dumbass mistakes that have been made. So, since the entire left can be defined by the words or beliefs of one of their members, generalize by that. I doubt you'd find too many lefties that would disagree with it.

As for the rest, I'm actually going to let it stand, because for one thing, I don't want to get in the way of your weird victimhood / violence hardon thing you got going on over there, and for another it all rather makes my final point from the previous post for me, probably better than I could myself.

Bottom line: some people got a permit to do something, and some other people broke the law cuz they were mad about it. :shrug: Everything else is just talking points to distract from that, in order to bolster a narrative.

 

[PoS]

No, of course not. Sometimes things change regressively, and I'm generally against that.

Ah, so you get to decide who gets a fair shot and who has to just suck it up, eh? Lots of tinpot dictators have the same general attitude lol.

You know, I'd love to actually sit down to discuss philosophy with you one day, in a situation where I could take for granted that I'd get the nice PoS, not the douchey one. You're smarter than all your sarcasm suggests. Think we could ever just, you know, talk?

I talk to people on their level. When one shows callous, hypocritical, buttholery partisanship to anyone who disagrees with their lefty fascist agenda, I cant help but put the sarcasm on. :mrgreen:

Lucky for them there aren't any laws against being an idiot. I mean if you're going to commit a crime like that why make a video tape of it? WITH sound ? So now not only everybody can see what you're doing, but they also can hear you saying why you are doing it so that there can be no doubt as to why. That's just plain stupid. But that's Trumpsters for you.

Yeeahh! Anyone who dares disagree with our lefty cause is a Trumpster!!! Death to all unbelievers! Rah, rah, rah! :screwy

 

[OlNate]

Ah, so you get to decide who gets a fair shot and who has to just suck it up, eh? Lots of tinpot dictators have the same general attitude lol.

Not me, we. :shrug:

I talk to people on their level. When one shows callous, hypocritical, buttholery partisanship to anyone who disagrees with their lefty fascist agenda, I cant help but put the sarcasm on. :mrgreen:

I mean, if your position is to rail against progress, well, I guess I can't get too mad...it's really all you have left, and at the end of the day it doesn't actually change anything. I just think you're more interesting when you're being, well, interesting. Acting like a dip**** on debate forums doesn't really leave much room for exchange of thought.

But I'll always take your Canada jokes, I do find them funny, in a rather privileged, "look where it's coming from" kind of way. :lol:

 

[Atreus21]

Speaking of all edge, no point...

Ah well, you haven't even hit 100 posts yet, I'll forgive you the lazy attempt at a pathetic equivalent.

See, DP, I can show mercy... :lol:

Lazy? It's an exact analog. If you don't like violence, give in to the demands of the violent. Well, that cuts two ways.

 

[OlNate]

Lazy? It's an exact analog. If you don't like violence, give in to the demands of the violent. Well, that cuts two ways.

No it doesn't, your equivalency is stupid and false, in a couple of ways I can think of right out the gates. Do you want to take a moment and consider why, or do you need some Canadian lefty to educate you?

 

[Atreus21]

No it doesn't, your equivalency is stupid and false, in a couple of ways I can think of right out the gates. Do you want to take a moment and consider why, or do you need some Canadian lefty to educate you?

You said this:

You don't like BLM, fix the reason for their existence.

If said, "If you don't like clinic bombings, fix the reason for their existence" would you accept that argument? Just yes or no. And if not, why?

 

[OlNate]

You said this:



If said, "If you don't like clinic bombings, fix the reason for their existence" would you accept that argument? Just yes or no. And if not, why?

No. Because 100% of clinic bombers engage in violence and murder, while the same is not even remotely true of BLM. False equivalency.

No. Because 100% of clinic bombers are protesting against a right that is protected by the law of the land, while BLM is protesting a statistically and anecdotally quantifiable complaint against police. False equivalency.

I'm gonna go ahead and quote myself, to save typing. This was from a conversation where a friend of mine asked whether anti semitic comments coming from a high ranking BLM member hurt their cause, but I think it applies here, to help with the "why". Bear in mind, I like him, and he was respectful, which is why I appear more patient with his line of questioning.

Bod...I don't think it's that no one cares. It's that there's a difference between BLM the organization, and BLM the movement. Read my last post again, where I said: "My answer was no, because the stupid remarks of a couple people don't trump the fact that cops use violence disproportionately against black people." I acknowledged that it was stupid out of the gates. I don't find it intimidating at all to scrutinize the groups I support, and call out BS when it occurs. Look around, man, there's nothing that you can support these days that is BS free. Fact remains, the complaint behind BLM is statistically quantifiable. It's a real thing. There's a problem, and until there isn't, I don't think we get to dismiss it because of something one person said. You could remove the guy from existence entirely, and the problem would still be what it is.

That's why it doesn't matter doesn't equate to folks not caring. I think what he said was awful...but it doesn't change the statistics driving this thing.

Sorry, but I don't give the same consideration to clinic bombers, for the reasons stated above. I hope that assists in explaining the "why" behind my rejecting your rather gross and misrepresentative attempt at creating an equivalency between planned parenthood clinic bombers and BLM.

FFS.

 

[trblmkr]

The double standard couldn't be more obvious.

A double standard is the erection of a statue calling a man a hero for enslaving others in the middle of the community of descendants of the enslaved. And then asking those descendants to accept the monument as a hero of the enslavers. Please, feel free to show me the correct standard to apply.

 

[apdst]

A double standard is the erection of a statue calling a man a hero for enslaving others in the middle of the community of descendants of the enslaved. And then asking those descendants to accept the monument as a hero of the enslavers. Please, feel free to show me the correct standard to apply.

So, that makes it ok to violate the rights of law abiding citizens? You're going to have to do a better job of explaining that logic...lol