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2 Islamic militants dead, more hostages freed in Nairobi mall terror attack

Montecresto

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

1.6 billion Muslims ought not be condemned over the actions of a few hundred thousand zealots.
 

Papa bull

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

1.6 billion Muslims ought not be condemned over the actions of a few hundred thousand zealots.

Why not? The Catholic Church has been condemned for the actions of a few priests by many of the people that defend the Islamic murderers that would gleefully sever their heads from their bodies with a dull knife if given the opportunity.
 

Montecresto

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

Oh, I see. Two wrongs make a right kind of guy.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

1.6 billion Muslims ought not be condemned over the actions of a few hundred thousand zealots.
No, but 1.6 billion Muslims ought to clean their own house. They've pretty clearly stated they don't want us to do it, so it's an open invitation for that 1.6 billion to do the job.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

No, but 1.6 billion Muslims ought to clean their own house. They've pretty clearly stated they don't want us to do it, so it's an open invitation for that 1.6 billion to do the job.

As Christians ought to clean their own house of radicals. But listen, much of what we're seeing is due to western policies in their region and interference in their nations internal issues. Provoking them helps nothing. But then Miles Copeland nailed it in 1989 when he wrote that WW3 starts the day the Russians dupe the US and Israel into wagging a SELF DESTRUCTIVE war against the Muslim/Arab world. So knock yourselves out, all those who are racist warmongers.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

As Christians ought to clean their own house of radicals. But listen, much of what we're seeing is due to western policies in their region and interference in their nations internal issues. Provoking them helps nothing. But then Miles Copeland nailed it in 1989 when he wrote that WW3 starts the day the Russians dupe the US and Israel into wagging a SELF DESTRUCTIVE war against the Muslim/Arab world. So knock yourselves out, all those who are racist warmongers.
True, but I haven't heard of any Christians wantonly murdering innocents lately. I have heard of more than few Muslims out on a jihad to do that very thing. I'm simply suggesting that if the 1.6 billion Muslims don't like it when we attempt to do something about the murderous ways of some of their proponents, then they damn well should do something about it themselves. I'd be very happy for them to police themselves. If they won't, or can't, then who do you propose might do that job? I'd be happy to let the Chinese or Russians take a crack at it. Muslims might not be all that happy with the methods those two countries might employ, but then, that's their problem.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

The death toll has risen to 59 last update I got. Muslims aren't just a problem in this country. Murder and Mayhem by Muslim extremists has marked their presence everywhere "the religion of peace" has spread.

Death toll rises to 59 in terror attack on Kenya shopping mall | Fox News

How does a religion claim responsibility for anything?

Unless there's one overseeing decision head of ___ religion which governs all activity - I don't see how this is possible. Certainly, there isn't any one such individual or collective within Islam. It is, in fact, extremely divided with a large number of its followers being appalled by such actions.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

True, but I haven't heard of any Christians wantonly murdering innocents lately. I have heard of more than few Muslims out on a jihad to do that very thing. I'm simply suggesting that if the 1.6 billion Muslims don't like it when we attempt to do something about the murderous ways of some of their proponents, then they damn well should do something about it themselves. I'd be very happy for them to police themselves. If they won't, or can't, then who do you propose might do that job? I'd be happy to let the Chinese or Russians take a crack at it. Muslims might not be all that happy with the methods those two countries might employ, but then, that's their problem.

Excellent post containing some great possible solutions! Kudos! :thumbs:
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

True, but I haven't heard of any Christians wantonly murdering innocents lately. I have heard of more than few Muslims out on a jihad to do that very thing. I'm simply suggesting that if the 1.6 billion Muslims don't like it when we attempt to do something about the murderous ways of some of their proponents, then they damn well should do something about it themselves. I'd be very happy for them to police themselves. If they won't, or can't, then who do you propose might do that job? I'd be happy to let the Chinese or Russians take a crack at it. Muslims might not be all that happy with the methods those two countries might employ, but then, that's their problem.

I too would have no problem with the Chinese and Russians taking care of it. And, I firmly believe that withdrawing from the ME and leaving them people alone, goes a long way towards ending the problem.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

Excellent post containing some great possible solutions! Kudos! :thumbs:
Thanks, Pol. Looking at the Russian response to such a problem in the Second Chechen war does provide some insight into what Russia might do. Their chief interest these days is to turn the nutcase Muslims against the West - as if the Jihadies need any encouragement. It's anybody's guess on how brutal the Chinese might be, but it's a pretty safe bet their objective is similar to Russia's - at least at the outset. The EU is useless. I am left wondering just how much Muslim on Muslim violence those innocents caught in the middle are willing to take before they stand up and put an end to it. I don't think they can, and their leaders are busily calculating how they can gain political advantage out of supporting this group of nuts or that other group of nuts, or begging for an intervention from somebody. It's tribal and religious sectarian strife at it's finest.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

True, but I haven't heard of any Christians wantonly murdering innocents lately. I have heard of more than few Muslims out on a jihad to do that very thing. I'm simply suggesting that if the 1.6 billion Muslims don't like it when we attempt to do something about the murderous ways of some of their proponents, then they damn well should do something about it themselves. I'd be very happy for them to police themselves. If they won't, or can't, then who do you propose might do that job? I'd be happy to let the Chinese or Russians take a crack at it. Muslims might not be all that happy with the methods those two countries might employ, but then, that's their problem.

Very true. It is unfortunate that the majority, who claim to be peaceful, seem unwilling to protest the defilement of their religion by the violent extremists. In some ways it is perhaps analogous to the German people who were unable to control the Nazis on their own, and suffered terribly for that failure.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

I too would have no problem with the Chinese and Russians taking care of it. And, I firmly believe that withdrawing from the ME and leaving them people alone, goes a long way towards ending the problem.
I wouldn't mind the Chinese or the Russians, or Icelanders or whomever doing the job. We will not be able to totally isolate the ME or ourselves from it. We do not, however, need to be so intimately involved, and if and when we do need to be involved, it should be definitive and devastating. No pinpricks or half-hearted messing around lobbing a few missiles here or there. We should acknowledge that when military action is required, any and all diplomatic and economic solutions have been exhausted first. This was not done in Syria, and we have paid a price for Obama's failure in that regard.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

As Christians ought to clean their own house of radicals. But listen, much of what we're seeing is due to western policies in their region and interference in their nations internal issues. Provoking them helps nothing. But then Miles Copeland nailed it in 1989 when he wrote that WW3 starts the day the Russians dupe the US and Israel into wagging a SELF DESTRUCTIVE war against the Muslim/Arab world. So knock yourselves out, all those who are racist warmongers.

Where are the Christians around the world committing terrorist acts and murdering thousands of innocents? Where are the Christian suicide bombers?

It's the Christians who are the targets of bloodthirsty Muslims (see Egypt and Syria)
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

Very true. It is unfortunate that the majority, who claim to be peaceful, seem unwilling to protest the defilement of their religion by the violent extremists. In some ways it is perhaps analogous to the German people who were unable to control the Nazis on their own, and suffered terribly for that failure.
That's a good observation. The radical Muslims and the German Nazis share much, and there are many who note the correlations and similarities going all the way back to well before WWII, including joining in common cause during that war.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

How does a religion claim responsibility for anything?

Unless there's one overseeing decision head of ___ religion which governs all activity - I don't see how this is possible. Certainly, there isn't any one such individual or collective within Islam. It is, in fact, extremely divided with a large number of its followers being appalled by such actions.
They don't. But they do have people running around doing all manner of things in their name. If I were Muslim, I'd take offense at my religion being so denigrated and do something about it. The longer they remain intransigent over it, the wider the brush that paints them.
 

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Montecresto

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

I wouldn't mind the Chinese or the Russians, or Icelanders or whomever doing the job. We will not be able to totally isolate the ME or ourselves from it. We do not, however, need to be so intimately involved, and if and when we do need to be involved, it should be definitive and devastating. No pinpricks or half-hearted messing around lobbing a few missiles here or there. We should acknowledge that when military action is required, any and all diplomatic and economic solutions have been exhausted first. This was not done in Syria, and we have paid a price for Obama's failure in that regard.

I just can't go there with you humbolt. This is not a problem for the military. These people are pissed at America because of our interference in their internal issues, YOU would eventually tire of someone doing the same to you. These people mingle through out their societies, they work, eat and sleep amongst them. The 'devastating' attacks you advocate will be indiscriminate and cause the innocent to suffer. Any attacks at all must in fact be pin pricks, surgical and precise. The 'turn the place into a parking lot' is as crazy as what the radicals want to do.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

Where are the Christians around the world committing terrorist acts and murdering thousands of innocents? Where are the Christian suicide bombers?

It's the Christians who are the targets of bloodthirsty Muslims (see Egypt and Syria)

Not all of the extremists committing these acts of terror are working for Allah. There are people in it for a host of different reasons. Money (Mercs) is even one. We had Americans, a Canadian, a Brit, and an attacker from Finland involved in the Kenyan attack. But the larger conflict is between Christian and Muslim nations. And so far, the Christian nations have killed more of them than the other way around.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

They don't. But they do have people running around doing all manner of things in their name. If I were Muslim, I'd take offense at my religion being so denigrated and do something about it. The longer they remain intransigent over it, the wider the brush that paints them.

Yes, you'd man up to guys that are capable of chopping your head off or pulling your heart out and eating it. MILES COPELAND.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

Not all of the extremists committing these acts of terror are working for Allah. There are people in it for a host of different reasons. Money (Mercs) is even one. We had Americans, a Canadian, a Brit, and an attacker from Finland involved in the Kenyan attack. But the larger conflict is between Christian and Muslim nations. And so far, the Christian nations have killed more of them than the other way around.

You're not answering the question and making broad, blanket and ambiguous statements

Show me where Christians are running blowing themselves up. Show me where Christians are taking hostages and running around malls, asking the name of Jesus' mother, and blowing you away when you don't know the answer
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

I just can't go there with you humbolt. This is not a problem for the military. These people are pissed at America because of our interference in their internal issues, YOU would eventually tire of someone doing the same to you. These people mingle through out their societies, they work, eat and sleep amongst them. The 'devastating' attacks you advocate will be indiscriminate and cause the innocent to suffer. Any attacks at all must in fact be pin pricks, surgical and precise. The 'turn the place into a parking lot' is as crazy as what the radicals want to do.
The Tsarneav brothers were Chechnyan. What affairs were we involved in re:Chechnya? None.

Islamists will use any pre-text to fight. I wonder when the world will stop doing all this hand wringing and recognize that the religion of peace always has conflicts with it's neighbors. Sri Lanka, the Phillipines, Sudan, Indonesia. Those are not nations with interventionist policies and yet continue to have radical Islam trying to take over certain parts of the country.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

I just can't go there with you humbolt. This is not a problem for the military. These people are pissed at America because of our interference in their internal issues, YOU would eventually tire of someone doing the same to you. These people mingle through out their societies, they work, eat and sleep amongst them. The 'devastating' attacks you advocate will be indiscriminate and cause the innocent to suffer. Any attacks at all must in fact be pin pricks, surgical and precise. The 'turn the place into a parking lot' is as crazy as what the radicals want to do.
I'm not suggesting we turn the place into a parking lot. I'm suggesting that we demonstrate forbearance, and not get too involved in their internal affairs. I have no interest in the sectarian strife there. When their violence spills into my country, however, I will take the gloves off. These people understand defeat. Anything less is considered weakness. Whatever is required for the agressors to understand that we will not tolerate their agression and that they will suffer gravely as a result I would endorse in that instance. I have no interest in killing innocents, but if innocents are to be sacrificed, it's going to be theirs, and not ours. I do believe that the use of the military is a fundamental failure, but I will never rule it's use out, and I will encourage our adversaries to understand that it's always available and generally devastating. I'm not into nation building. We built ours. They can build theirs after their own fashion.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

You're not answering the question and making broad, blanket and ambiguous statements

Show me where Christians are running blowing themselves up. Show me where Christians are taking hostages and running around malls, asking the name of Jesus' mother, and blowing you away when you don't know the answer

Christians aren't doing that, but then I don't believe I ever said they were.
 

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Re: The religion of peace takes responsibility for the dozens slain in Nairobi.

No, but 1.6 billion Muslims ought to clean their own house. They've pretty clearly stated they don't want us to do it, so it's an open invitation for that 1.6 billion to do the job.
Some of those 1.6B muslims can take up some arms and do a sweep of the building to show good will and support for the victims.
But, they wont. They will talk about how horrible it is, then laugh under their breath.
 
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