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2.5 million mortgage borrowers no longer underwater

Vern

back from Vegas
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"By the end of June, 7.1 million, or 14.5%, of mortgage borrowers remained underwater on their loans compared with 9.6 million, or 19.7%, at the end of the first quarter, CoreLogic reported"

2.5 million mortgage borrowers no longer underwater - Yahoo Finance


Wow, 6 years after the Bush Mortgage Bubble its mind boggling to think there are still 7.1 million borrowers underwater. It just makes what President Obama has accomplished more impressive.
 
It is also amazing what 5 years of making your mortgage payment will do for your loan balance :2wave:
 
LoL no longer underwater and added to the foodstamp rolls, considered in the poverty category and living off the public trough. Only a socialist would call that "more impressive."

Oh but hey - he did create 7 million - PART TIME jobs.
 
LoL no longer underwater and added to the foodstamp rolls, considered in the poverty category and living off the public trough. Only a socialist would call that "more impressive."

Oh but hey - he did create 7 million - PART TIME jobs.

Oh cal, housing is a big part of the economy. thats why bush was more than happy to create his mortgage bubble. Just think what President Obama could have done if he was handed a surplus instead of an economy headed towards a depression with 2 sectors of the economy in ruins and trillion dollar deficits.
 
FAIL:

Housing bubble was caused by the likes of ACORN demanding we loan money to people who could never pay it back. Bush tried several times to reign it in, and dear Barney and Doddlie would never let it happen. So much failure in your view of history the discussion is no longer relevant. If you ever learn the reality of the left wing agenda to destroy capitalism let me know; otherwise your personal opinion of things and the facts do not equate.

Oh cal, housing is a big part of the economy. thats why bush was more than happy to create his mortgage bubble. Just think what President Obama could have done if he was handed a surplus instead of an economy headed towards a depression with 2 sectors of the economy in ruins and trillion dollar deficits.
 
Oh cal, housing is a big part of the economy. thats why bush was more than happy to create his mortgage bubble. Just think what President Obama could have done if he was handed a surplus instead of an economy headed towards a depression with 2 sectors of the economy in ruins and trillion dollar deficits.

Still perpetuating the Clinton surplus lie, I see, along with the belief that Obama saved us from a Great Depression yet not one Obama supporter can point to the Obama policies that did that. Obama supporters do however have a problem focusing on the actual Obama results which they ignore. Wonder what it is that these people know that you don't?

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Obama Job Approval

Apparently 56% of the population disagrees with you
 
LOL !!


Another desperately stupid thread from VERN winds up in the partisan section.

Nice.

VERN equates the Bush Bubble to Fannie and Freddies rampant corruption from 1995 to 2008.

6 of their top executives get nailed for Securites fraud ? Bush's Fault.

Democrats lie about the financial health of the GSEs in front of Republican chaired Commitees and fights off any new regulatory action ? Bush's fault.

Fannie and Freddie get taken into Conservatorship in 2008 with 5.4 TRILLION in MBSs backed by crap mortgages or the crap mortgages thsmselves ? Bush's Fault.

Fannie and Freddie fail to disclose 1 TRILLION dollars in Sub-Prime and Alt-A debt ? Bush's Fault.

A top Clinton appointee to run Fannie and Freddie misreports 10 billion in profit over his tenure so he can manipulate the value of their securities and hit bonus targets ? Bush's fault.

Fannie buys up a masive amount of CountryWides crap loans as CountryWides CEO offers up VIP mortgage packages to top Democrat Congressmen ? Bush's Fault.

Fannie aand Freddie wind up with 19.2 Million sub-prime or alt-a, CRA loans when the music stops in 2008, 70% of all Crap loans made in the US ? Bush's fault.
 
Wow, 6 years after the Bush Mortgage Bubble its mind boggling to think there are still 7.1 million borrowers underwater. It just makes what President Obama has accomplished more impressive.


WOW! 0bama was the one that pushed housing prices up? Just him? So, basically people are still making what they were always making...their land just increased in value to make up for things.

How exactly is that related to the Jerk-in-Chief, or his policies? Please...I'm dying to know how he forced land value to go up.
 
Oh cal, housing is a big part of the economy. thats why bush was more than happy to create his mortgage bubble.

Forcing companies to take out destined-to-fail mortgages is not the same as increasing property values. Quit cramming square pegs into round holes.
 
Oh cal, housing is a big part of the economy. thats why bush was more than happy to create his mortgage bubble. Just think what President Obama could have done if he was handed a surplus instead of an economy headed towards a depression with 2 sectors of the economy in ruins and trillion dollar deficits.

If you are being honest.. the economy turning around is really the result our resilient free market system combined with abundant skilled labor and abundant natural resources rather than the result of "Obama's policies". I'd say that Obama's largest achievement is in not letting the republican whackadoos (and yep.. I am a conservative republican) drive our economy into the ditch with their ideology. Other than the stimulus package, which though very inefficient and more costly than it should have been did help steer us up from a depression... Obama really hasn't done much on the economy side of things.
 
If you are being honest.. the economy turning around is really the result our resilient free market system combined with abundant skilled labor and abundant natural resources rather than the result of "Obama's policies". I'd say that Obama's largest achievement is in not letting the republican whackadoos (and yep.. I am a conservative republican) drive our economy into the ditch with their ideology. Other than the stimulus package, which though very inefficient and more costly than it should have been did help steer us up from a depression... Obama really hasn't done much on the economy side of things.

two things, did you read my FAQ thread? you did contest my use of the phrase "Bush Mortgage Bubble".

second, President Obama gets credit for the turnaround. The economy didn't look too resilient when GDP was -8.9% and losing 700 k jobs a month . And to reduce the deficit every year as a % of GDP (and almost on a nominal basis) while maintaining positive growth (it was close a few times) is pretty impressive when you compare it to the other countries coming out of recession. And to have to even fight with republicans to even get the stimulus just proves they are nuts or were trying to finish the job Bush started.

The auto bailout was almost as important as the stimulus. 2 million jobs saved is pretty significant. Again, he battled a party that seemed determined to create a depression. Cash for Clunkers and the compromise to extend UE benefits also contributed. (I know that UE benefits are one of the best if not the best stimulus). To argue that UE benefits will make people lazy and we should be more worried about the debt shows just how deranged some if not most republicans have become.
 
Oh jeez Vern now you're saying the " economy is turning around " ?

Based on what ? Your personal interpretation ?

Pardon me if I don't take your "analysis" too seriously because, you ARE the one who attributed the Democrat mandated Bubble to George Bush.

Well at least you're consistent.

I mean who else could equate an extra 7 Trillion in structutal debt, a Central Bank policy of massive stimulus that only enriches the asset markets as it removes Trillions in wealth out of the private sector and massive joblessness to an economy thats turning around ?

I mean as you post some irrelevent data and try to draw parralels to a improving economy Wells Fargo just layed off 1500 employees out of its mortgage division and any companies everywhere are cutting healthcare benefits for their workers as Obama Care sets in.

The labor force participation is at record lows as our poverty rate climbs and food stamp use reaches new record levels.

Bernake can't stop QE because he knows the consequence is a sell off as the DOW deflates down to where it would be now if it wasn't for Bernakes perpetual printing.
 
two things, did you read my FAQ thread? you did contest my use of the phrase "Bush Mortgage Bubble".

second, President Obama gets credit for the turnaround. The economy didn't look too resilient when GDP was -8.9% and losing 700 k jobs a month . And to reduce the deficit every year as a % of GDP (and almost on a nominal basis) while maintaining positive growth (it was close a few times) is pretty impressive when you compare it to the other countries coming out of recession. And to have to even fight with republicans to even get the stimulus just proves they are nuts or were trying to finish the job Bush started.

The auto bailout was almost as important as the stimulus. 2 million jobs saved is pretty significant. Again, he battled a party that seemed determined to create a depression. Cash for Clunkers and the compromise to extend UE benefits also contributed. (I know that UE benefits are one of the best if not the best stimulus). To argue that UE benefits will make people lazy and we should be more worried about the debt shows just how deranged some if not most republicans have become.

Yes.. I do contest your bush mortgage bubble. Events were in motion well before Bush and quite frankly would have happened no matter who was president, no matter the party.

Again.. Obama doesn't get credit for the recovery any more than he should be blamed for the economy continuing to go down in 2009 into 2010. and comparing it to "other countries coming out of recession" isn't valid because very few countries have the economy of scale, the resources and the market resiliency that we have.

The auto bailout was not as important or even close to the stimulus. Because 2 million jobs would not have been lost. That's a bit of melodrama as much as the republicans claiming the world will fail because of Obamacare. And just to be clear.. the auto bailout was not Obama's idea.. it was actually started under Bush (just as Tarp was).. the only difference was that under the Bush administration.. the union and the taxpayers would have gotten a deeper screwing.

Cash for clunkers was an absolute BUST..and quite frankly was wasted money that could have been much better spent. As for as unemployment benefits.. extending the unemployment benefits was probably the single most effective thing in the stimulus.

That being said, the extension should not have been as long.. and the continued Tier 4 extension for some states is probably holding back the economic recovery. Its not that extended benefits will make people "lazy" per se (we republicans need to tone down the moral crap)... but here is a fact. The economy will NOT be the same economy that it was in 2005. In some areas.. the jobs ARE NOT COMING BACK. the jobs in these areas were built upon a bubble.. you said it yourself... so what needs to happen in these areas is that people need to move where the jobs are.. they need to change careers, get more training, whatever. However, its human nature.. that if you are in one of these areas.. receiving benefits.. you are going to try to hold on waiting for the economy to come back.. instead of doing whats necessary to change. Its human nature.. who wants to rip their kids out of school, sell their house, move to another area.. etc... when there is false hope?
 
Yes.. I do contest your bush mortgage bubble. Events were in motion well before Bush and quite frankly would have happened no matter who was president, no matter the party.
So you didn’t read my FAQ thread. Lets sum that up. You dispute me calling it the Bush Mortgage bubble. I ask you read the facts where I prove it’s the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Then you just reiterate that its not the Bush Mortgage Bubble. And that’s pretty much your entire post. You simply post “oh yea, what you say is not true .”

Because 2 million jobs would not have been lost. That's a bit of melodrama as much as the republicans claiming the world will fail because of Obamacare.
There are two things wrong with that sentence. Calling the republican agenda melodrama is being much much too kind. And I don't post melodrama. Do we even need to discuss the republican “melodrama” about the bailout? Anyhoo, here’s Bush’s estimate from December 2008

“The direct costs of American automakers failing and laying off their workers in the near term would result in a more than one-percent reduction in real GDP growth and about 1.1 million workers losing their jobs, including workers from auto suppliers and dealers. “
Fact Sheet: Financing Assistance to Facilitate the Restructuring of Auto Manufacturers to Attain Financial Viability

And when this estimate was made, GDP was expected to be about -3 to -4% of GDP. It came in at -8.9%. And Bush has a little caveat at the end of his estimate that it may affect suppliers and the rest of the economy

“Additionally, suppliers may not be able to absorb losses from writing off the accounts payable owed by auto manufacturers and may not be able to downsize quickly, resulting in remaining auto companies having supply chains disrupted. These effects on our economy could multiply as a result of the failure of these companies. “

GM and C going out of business would have caused many of their suppliers to go out of business . This would have affected not only Ford but the other car companies as well. Its why they all supported the bailout. While the effect on the other car companies may not have been big, it would have been catastrophic to Ford because they had an 80% overlap with GM’s suppliers.
"
Ford’s own plan stressed that its ability to survive a recession and return to profitability was not only contingent on how well the total market performs, but also on the short term survival of its domestic competitors, because “Our industry is an interdependent one. We have 80% overlap in supplier networks,” plus many dealers also have operations selling GM or Chrysler products.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40003.pdf
from the same link
"
However, the study also notes that the higher shutdown level is unlikely over the long term and that the practical worst-case scenario would be a restructuring and downsizing, with a 40% production loss. This would be estimated to result in 1.5 million jobs lost in the peak year, and a net average loss of just under one million jobs per year through 2014, against what employment would otherwise be.53

Anderson Economic Group/BBK, an international business advisory firm with customers in the automotive industry, produced a separate set of estimates with a different methodology. AEG/BBK’s worst-case scenario was bankruptcy and eventual liquidation of two of the Detroit 3. In this case, they estimated that more than 1.2 million jobs would be lost in the first year, and nearly 600,000 in the second year. Netting out a small number of persons gaining alternative employment, the AEG/BBK estimate was 1.8 million jobs lost over two years among the OEMs, their suppliers and dealers, and others “indirectly” linked to the industry.54

If you contest a point I make, please ask me to back it up. Simply posting “oh yea, what you say is not true" isnt really an argument.
 
So you didn’t read my FAQ thread. Lets sum that up. You dispute me calling it the Bush Mortgage bubble. I ask you read the facts where I prove it’s the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Then you just reiterate that its not the Bush Mortgage Bubble. And that’s pretty much your entire post. You simply post “oh yea, what you say is not true .”


There are two things wrong with that sentence. Calling the republican agenda melodrama is being much much too kind. And I don't post melodrama. Do we even need to discuss the republican “melodrama” about the bailout? Anyhoo, here’s Bush’s estimate from December 2008

“The direct costs of American automakers failing and laying off their workers in the near term would result in a more than one-percent reduction in real GDP growth and about 1.1 million workers losing their jobs, including workers from auto suppliers and dealers. “
Fact Sheet: Financing Assistance to Facilitate the Restructuring of Auto Manufacturers to Attain Financial Viability

And when this estimate was made, GDP was expected to be about -3 to -4% of GDP. It came in at -8.9%. And Bush has a little caveat at the end of his estimate that it may affect suppliers and the rest of the economy

“Additionally, suppliers may not be able to absorb losses from writing off the accounts payable owed by auto manufacturers and may not be able to downsize quickly, resulting in remaining auto companies having supply chains disrupted. These effects on our economy could multiply as a result of the failure of these companies. “

GM and C going out of business would have caused many of their suppliers to go out of business . This would have affected not only Ford but the other car companies as well. Its why they all supported the bailout. While the effect on the other car companies may not have been big, it would have been catastrophic to Ford because they had an 80% overlap with GM’s suppliers.
"
Ford’s own plan stressed that its ability to survive a recession and return to profitability was not only contingent on how well the total market performs, but also on the short term survival of its domestic competitors, because “Our industry is an interdependent one. We have 80% overlap in supplier networks,” plus many dealers also have operations selling GM or Chrysler products.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40003.pdf
from the same link
"
However, the study also notes that the higher shutdown level is unlikely over the long term and that the practical worst-case scenario would be a restructuring and downsizing, with a 40% production loss. This would be estimated to result in 1.5 million jobs lost in the peak year, and a net average loss of just under one million jobs per year through 2014, against what employment would otherwise be.53

Anderson Economic Group/BBK, an international business advisory firm with customers in the automotive industry, produced a separate set of estimates with a different methodology. AEG/BBK’s worst-case scenario was bankruptcy and eventual liquidation of two of the Detroit 3. In this case, they estimated that more than 1.2 million jobs would be lost in the first year, and nearly 600,000 in the second year. Netting out a small number of persons gaining alternative employment, the AEG/BBK estimate was 1.8 million jobs lost over two years among the OEMs, their suppliers and dealers, and others “indirectly” linked to the industry.54

If you contest a point I make, please ask me to back it up. Simply posting “oh yea, what you say is not true" isnt really an argument.

Your opinion noted but think about it, name for me just one economic proposal or prediction made by Obama or his team that has been accurate? You want badly to buy the rhetoric and ignore the results. You actually think that GM/Chrysler going out of business would have stopped GM/Chysler auto suppliers from getting parts and going out of business? Do you think restructuring under bankruptcy or liquidation of GM/Chrysler would have destroyed the economy and the auto industry? How naïve and gullible are you and how little you know about the private sector economy.

Estimates by this Administration and supporters has been terrible at best. Sorry, but "Your" President has been in office for almost 5 years now and the economic results we have today are a disaster. There are two million fewer people employed today than when the recession began and the debt is over 6.4 trillion dollars more. The labor force isn't keeping up with population growth and rather than losing as you claim 850k jobs a month, over 850k are discouraged and aren't even counted. Bush never once had over a million discouraged a month but since they are discouraged they don't count in the liberal world.

All Obama has done is show zero leadership skills and do his best to fundamentally change America and people like you bought the rhetoric and ignored what fundamentally changed meant to him. His idea is massive dependence on the federal govt. which is what apparently you support as well. It really is a shame that you want to buy projections and predictions from an Administration that hasn't come close in creating an accurate one.
 
Your opinion noted but think about it, name for me just one economic proposal or prediction made by Obama or his team that has been accurate? .

ur uh con, we don't need another conservative posting the empty factless rhetoric oh "oh yea, what you say is not true". Of course like all cons, you use my post to reply with the usual tired delusions about President Obama. Have you ever wondered why you have to repeat your beliefs over and over? Anyhoo my statements are backed up. you are using your delusions about President Obama to justify not believe the facts I've posted. Here's the funny part. I posted no estimates from President Obama. I did post an estimate from President Bush. did you even read my post?

And I posted the low estimates. I didn't post the 3 million job lost estimate. feel free to read a solid factual link once in a while.
 
"By the end of June, 7.1 million, or 14.5%, of mortgage borrowers remained underwater on their loans compared with 9.6 million, or 19.7%, at the end of the first quarter, CoreLogic reported"

2.5 million mortgage borrowers no longer underwater - Yahoo Finance


Wow, 6 years after the Bush Mortgage Bubble its mind boggling to think there are still 7.1 million borrowers underwater. It just makes what President Obama has accomplished more impressive.

From your link:

Thanks to a sharp increase in home prices last quarter...

This smells like the reinflation of the housing bubble...using your previous logic can we define this one as 'Obama's housing bubble' or will it be Bush's again?
 
This smells like the reinflation of the housing bubble...using your previous logic can we define this one as 'Obama's housing bubble' or will it be Bush's again?

ahhhh, the simplistic republican narrative that "appreciation = bubble". don't fret, we wont have another Bush Mortgage Bubble. And here's the key, the thread isn't about home prices going up. Its about the great job President Obama did in spite of the things dragging down the economy, namely a housing crash, a financial crash and a party that was trying to finish what Bush started.
 
ur uh con, we don't need another conservative posting the empty factless rhetoric oh "oh yea, what you say is not true". Of course like all cons, you use my post to reply with the usual tired delusions about President Obama. Have you ever wondered why you have to repeat your beliefs over and over? Anyhoo my statements are backed up. you are using your delusions about President Obama to justify not believe the facts I've posted. Here's the funny part. I posted no estimates from President Obama. I did post an estimate from President Bush. did you even read my post?

And I posted the low estimates. I didn't post the 3 million job lost estimate. feel free to read a solid factual link once in a while.

This has to be an act on your part because it has been almost 5 years since Bush left office and the results today do not even come close to matching the Obama predictions. When exactly do the economic results generated through August 2013 become Obama's responsibility?

I have to repeat my posts because Obamabots have very low attention span and ignore actual data so it has to be repeated over and over again

Bush isn't in office so name for me an Obama economic prediction that has been accurate?
 
This has to be an act on your part because it has been almost 5 years since Bush left office and the results today do not even come close to matching the Obama predictions. When exactly do the economic results generated through August 2013 become Obama's responsibility?

I have to repeat my posts because Obamabots have very low attention span and ignore actual data so it has to be repeated over and over again

Bush isn't in office so name for me an Obama economic prediction that has been accurate?

I really don't understand your efforts to remake this about "predictions". This thread is about the great job President Obama has done with the economy in spite of the what he had to deal with. Hey, did you figure out yet you imagined I posted predictions from President Obama ? yea, what would cons post without their imaginations.
 
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I really don't understand your efforts to remake this about "predictions". This thread is about the great job President Obama has done with the economy in spite of the what he had to deal with. Hey, did you figure out yet you imagined the predictions from President Obama that I posted. yea, what would cons post without their imaginations.

The great job is fiction in the minds of Obamabots who cannot point to one legislative or economic accomplishment that has improved the economy into pre recession levels. I find it quite amazing how a "dumb" cowboy from TX with a Democrat Controlled Congress could destroy the economy all by himself and then the smartest man ever to hold the office, Obama, with a Democrat controlled Congress cannot generate better results than what we have today, stagnant economic growth, 48 million Americans on food stamps, 6.4 trillion added to the debt, massive dependence on the govt. thus a new entitlement society, a world that has zero respect for this country. Yes, the govt. of Greece would be proud as is Jimmy Carter who now has Obama's economic record replacing Carter's as the worst in modern history.
 
ahhhh, the simplistic republican narrative that "appreciation = bubble". don't fret, we wont have another Bush Mortgage Bubble. And here's the key, the thread isn't about home prices going up. Its about the great job President Obama did in spite of the things dragging down the economy, namely a housing crash, a financial crash and a party that was trying to finish what Bush started.

It does seem that Obama's policies are actually waking up supporters, wonder what took Matthews so long and wonder what is taking you so long.

IRS Scandal - President Obama loses Chris Matthews - YouTube
 
The great job is fiction in the minds of Obamabots who cannot point to one legislative or economic accomplishment that has improved the economy into pre recession levels. .

mmm, you see things I didn't post and don't see what I did post. President Obama has had positive GDP and reduced the deficit every year since he prevented the Great Bush Depression and ended the Great Bush Recession. try to focus on reality. it will greatly improve the quality of your posts.
 
mmm, you see things I didn't post and don't see what I did post. President Obama has had positive GDP and reduced the deficit every year since he prevented the Great Bush Depression and ended the Great Bush Recession. try to focus on reality. it will greatly improve the quality of your posts.

Again, do you get paid to post this bs? Reducing the deficit and still having one over a trillion dollars each year is only an accomplishment to a liberal. Debt has increased 6.4 trillion dollars during the Obama term and he has yet to have a deficit under a trillion dollars. That will happen this year because of sequester not because of anything Obama has done. Obama has added more debt in less than 5 years than any other President in history added in 8.

You claim he prevented a second Great Depression but offer no proof other than leftwing rhetoric. You have no idea what would have happened only more liberal projections all of which have been wrong/.

Wish I knew what drove liberals to support this kind of performance and never do any research to verify the rhetoric?
 
Again, do you get paid to post this bs? Reducing the deficit and still having one over a trillion dollars each year is only an accomplishment to a liberal. Debt has increased 6.4 trillion dollars during the Obama term and he has yet to have a deficit under a trillion dollars.
Oh silly con, the deficit is not over a trillion anymore. And if you hate trillion dollar deficits, then hate republicans for handing President Obama a 1.4 trillion dollar deficit. And I see you use the silly made up metric of debt measured by Inauguration Day. Debt totals are broken down by budget years. But since bush, cons have had to make up metrics to minimize just how incompetent Bush and republicans are.

You claim he prevented a second Great Depression but offer no proof other than leftwing rhetoric.

Says the silly con who only posts empty rhetoric he heard on the radio. With GDP shrinking at -8.9 % in Q4 2008 and losing 700,000 jobs a month, only cons and bumper stickers think we weren’t headed towards a depression. I can post the links but I think it gives you a complex because I can back up what I post.
 
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