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2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

Hatuey

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2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple - Yahoo! Canada News

During an initial investigation at the temple in Bangkok on Tuesday, police discovered piles of plastic bags containing more than 300 fetuses. Police Lt. Col. Kanathud Musiganont said workers pulled more bodies from the temple's morgue Friday. More than 2,000 have been unearthed from vaults where bodies are traditionally interred pending cremation, which under some circumstances can take place years after death.

Abortion is illegal in Thailand except under three conditions — if a woman is raped, if the pregnancy affects her health or if the fetus is abnormal.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Friday that more must be done to prevent illegal abortions but that his government would not revise the abortion-related laws. He said his government has discussed the matter and believed that "the existing laws are appropriate and flexible enough."

Several people have already been arrested in the case: two undertakers for hiding bodies to conceal the cause of death and an abortion clinic employee on charges of operating an unlicensed medical clinic and performing abortions. The undertakers could each be sent to prison for up to one year and fined 2,000 baht ($67). The clinic employee — who police said confessed she had delivered the fetuses to the morgue workers starting early this year — could face up to five years in jail and a fine of 10,000 baht ($333).

This is sad. It's why I oppose overturning RoeVWade. Once the rabidly pro-life states decide to make it illegal, people will run the incredible risk of getting illegal abortions. What is worse is that we have politicians who want to ban abortion even when a woman has been raped. The simplest solution is to leave it as it is.
 
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CriticalThought

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Overturning Roe v. Wade would pretty much just force abortion underground.

If you want to decrease abortions in this country, then you need to fight poverty. Poverty is one of the strongest correlated factors to abortions so fighting the former is key to fighting the latter. And no, that is not to say that only poor people get abortions, but people in poverty are by far the most likely to get abortions.

As far as Thailand, they have enough trouble policing sex trafficking, I'm surprised they have the resources to even investigate abortion cases.
 
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Hatuey

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Overturning Roe v. Wade would pretty much just force abortion underground.

If you want to decrease abortions in this country, then you need to fight poverty. Poverty is one of the strongest correlated factors to abortions so fighting the former is key to fighting the latter. And no, that is not to say that only poor people get abortions, but people in poverty are by far the most likely to get abortions.

As far as Thailand, they have enough trouble policing sex trafficking, I'm surprised they have the resources to even investigate abortion cases.

The problem is that most people simply don't see the root causes of abortion. They think people who get abortion are simply trying to avoid responsibility. To an extent that is true but let's just say for one second that all of these people 'assumed responsibility' and a baby was born 9 months later. Then what? The overwhelming majority of women who get abortions live in poverty. That extra mouth to feed would mean A) an extra mouth for the government to feed or B) an extra mouth that would go hungry. What happens then is that a sizable percentage of the pro-life groups are also small government conservatives. So you have a group who is A) advocating for forcing the poorest percentage of America to reproduce and B) advocating so that the very social programs they rely on are also cut. Add to that the fact that even if the economy was in full boom there simply wouldn't be enough jobs to support an extra 20-30 million individuals and its a socioeconomic dichotomy if I've ever seen one.
 
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Ikari

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Wow....people have no idea how to properly dispose of evidence.

BTW, R v W is not going to be overturned; nor shall we see a Constitutional Amendment allowing government control over abortion. Thus I don't abortion becoming illegal is a real concern in this country.
 

digsbe

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So it's ok to kill the unborn? The temple should be patrolled and women found disposing of their children be tried for murder. Roe V Wade should be overturned and laws set in place to protect the rights of the unborn. These women in Thailand deserve harsh sentences and should be ashamed of themselves.
 

Hatuey

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So it's ok to kill the unborn? The temple should be patrolled and women found disposing of their children be tried for murder. Roe V Wade should be overturned and laws set in place to protect the rights of the unborn. These women in Thailand deserve harsh sentences and should be ashamed of themselves.

... Let this post explain why 2,000 fetuses were found in a temple.
 

Laila

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So it's ok to kill the unborn? The temple should be patrolled and women found disposing of their children be tried for murder. Roe V Wade should be overturned and laws set in place to protect the rights of the unborn. These women in Thailand deserve harsh sentences and should be ashamed of themselves.

Sums up why this is happening

Edit: Dammit Hatuey got there first
 

digsbe

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... Let this post explain why 2,000 fetuses were found in a temple.

Because these women wanted to murder there children? I'm sure there are over 2,000 murder victims in graves...

Sums up why this is happening

It shouldn't be happening. And these places should be patrolled. If a woman is going to be so wicked as to kill her unborn, she deserves jail and to be tried for murder. And legalizing abortion in Thailand would make this any better how?
 
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Hatuey

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Because these women wanted to murder there children? I'm sure there are over 2,000 murder victims in graves...

It shouldn't be happening. And these places should be patrolled. If a woman is going to be so wicked as to kill her unborn, she deserves jail and to be tried for murder. And legalizing abortion in Thailand would make this any better how?

Your religious beliefs make you believe that this is murder. However those of us who are not of your faith or of any faith, do not believe it is. The reason this happened is because people like you decided they could impose their religious beliefs on others and force them to act in ways they thought to be moral. However when one tries to regulate morality, the only sure thing is that the nature of the human being will force it to rebel. It's happened every single time. It has happened in Athens, in Rome, in imperial China, in Puritan America, in the Soviet Union and it will happen again everywhere a cult imposes its beliefs on others. When one takes their ideological beliefs to be the law of the land and imposes it on others, others rebel. So quit the hyperbole.
 
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digsbe

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Your religious beliefs make you believe that this is murder. However those of us who are not of your faith or of any faith, do not believe it is. The reason this happened is because people like you decided they could impose their religious beliefs on others and force them to act in ways they thought to be moral. However when one tries to regulate morality, the only sure thing is that the nature of the human being will force it to rebel. It's happened every single time. It has happened in Athens, in Rome, in imperial China, in Puritan America, in the Soviet Union and it will happen again everywhere a person imposes their beliefs on others. When one takes their ideological beliefs to be the law of the land, it ends up having the opposite effect. So quit the hyperbole.

And people like you want to impose your belief that a fetus has no right to life upon the unborn, causing them to forfeit every right and liberty they have as humans. You impose upon all of society the legal injustice of killing the unborn because they aren't "persons" or protected life in your opinion. You accuse me of wanting to enforce my religious beliefs on others, yet you do the same. The difference is your beliefs are secular. We regulate morality all the time. You can't kill your mother because the law says it's immoral and murder. You can't rape someone because forced sex without consent is considered legally immoral. I support the right to legally protect and recognize the life of all unborn humans and that no woman has the right to end that life for non-medically necessary reasons. You impose your beliefs on others as well, all laws do in a way.
 

Hatuey

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And people like you want to impose your belief that a fetus has no right to life upon the unborn,

That is false. If the fetus wants to debate its rights it's more than welcomed to hop out of the womb and talk to me. Until then, I have no reason to believe it has rights to begin with. I support the politically neutral action. If people want to believe their fetus has rights. Well great for them. I wouldn't force them to get an abortion. If they don't want to believe a fetus has any rights, soul etc, I wouldn't stop them from getting one. Imposing beliefs on somebody would mean they'd be forced to do something. I honestly don't care what a person does as long as they have the option to do it.
 
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Gray_Fox_86

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overturning RVW is going to make it a state issue then. I thought the people on the internet knew so much:)
 

digsbe

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This is false. If you want to believe the fetus has a right to life. That's great. However don't force that belief on myself. I support the politically neutral option. Letting people decide for themselves what it is they want to do with a fetus.

Do you or do you not believe that a fetus has a right to life? Does your opinion not force that a fetus has no right to life and should only be allowed to live if its mother choses to continue her pregnancy? Letting people "decide for themselves" is revoking the fetus' right to life in that their rights lie with the mother and they have no rights of their own.
 

Hatuey

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Do you or do you not believe that a fetus has a right to life?

No. I believe it doesn't have any rights.

Does your opinion not force that a fetus has no right to life and should only be allowed to live if its mother choses to continue her pregnancy?Letting people "decide for themselves" is revoking the fetus' right to life in that their rights lie with the mother and they have no rights of their own.

It's only revoking if you believe the fetus has rights to begin with. Why don't you stop with the false dichotomies already? If a woman doesn't believe her fetus has any rights, she can't possibly believe she's revoking any rights by aborting the fetus. It's simply illogical. You are projecting your belief that fetuses indeed have rights regardless of what another person believes.
 
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digsbe

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No. I know it doesn't have any.
So then you admit that you force your opinion on everyone that fetal life does not deserve protection?
This is a false dichotomy. If the fetus has no rights than I can't possibly be forcing the fetus to do anything.
You are forcing it to die without justice. I said your opinion forces on everyone the opinion that a fetus has no right to life and it should only live if the woman deems it not an inconvenience and warranting carrying out her pregnancy.
It's only revoking if you believe the fetus has rights to begin with. Why don't you stop with the false dichotomies already? If a woman doesn't believe her fetus has any rights, she can't possibly believe she's revoking any rights to begin with. It's simply illogical.
I do believe that the fetus has rights to begin with... Read my sentences. I believe that a fetus has the right to life, and thus in my beliefs a woman incorrectly and wrongfully revokes that right under the guise of "it's my choice."
 

Hatuey

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So then you admit that you force your opinion on everyone that fetal life does not deserve protection?

You're rehashing the same false statement again. Forcing my beliefs on others would mean I'd force them to do something they do not want to do. The opposite is what I am stating. A person should be allowed to make their own decision on abortion, not one based on my opinions or yours. If you want to believe an abortion is murder, by all means. If you want to forbid those who you are related to from getting one and they allow you? By all means. However when your beliefs impose on mine, then that restricts me from making the choice for myself.

You are forcing it to die without justice.

More false dichotomies. Forcing it to do die without justice would mean believing that a fetus is 'entitled' to justice to begin with. If I do not belief a fetus enjoys rights, virtues etc. Why would I believe I am denying it justice to begin with?

I said your opinion forces on everyone the opinion that a fetus has no right to life and it should only live if the woman deems it not an inconvenience and warranting carrying out her pregnancy.

And this is in fact the opposite of what my argument actually means.

I do believe that the fetus has rights to begin with...

And I do not. So unless you have a claim to some demonstrable higher truth, I welcome you to keep believing that as long as it doesn't impose on my beliefs or those of others.

Read my sentences. I believe that a fetus has the right to life, and thus in my beliefs a woman incorrectly and wrongfully revokes that right under the guise of "it's my choice."

That's great. But it's still only a belief. Your problem is that you do not understand what the implications of a belief are. If I believe a fetus does not have a right to virtues, jutice, rights etc. It does not logically follow that I somehow will believe that I am negating any virtues, justice, rights etc. In fact the opposite is true. To me an abortion is the result of a concious choice made by an individual to remove that which is unwanted. A birth is the opposite. It is the conscious choice to keep a wanted fetus. One choice is grounded in the belief that fetuses have rights and deserve 'justice'. The other is grounded in the belief that it does not have these rights at all. My stance on this assures the choice is available to both opinions.
 
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the makeout hobo

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The funny part is, of course, no one has any way of really knowing when "life" begins.
 

Gray_Fox_86

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The funny part is, of course, no one has any way of really knowing when "life" begins.

well sperm is life. so is the egg. so really we do know when life begins. we just are confused how to define it.
 

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The problem is that most people simply don't see the root causes of abortion. They think people who get abortion are simply trying to avoid responsibility. To an extent that is true but let's just say for one second that all of these people 'assumed responsibility' and a baby was born 9 months later. Then what? The overwhelming majority of women who get abortions live in poverty. That extra mouth to feed would mean A) an extra mouth for the government to feed or B) an extra mouth that would go hungry. What happens then is that a sizable percentage of the pro-life groups are also small government conservatives. So you have a group who is A) advocating for forcing the poorest percentage of America to reproduce and B) advocating so that the very social programs they rely on are also cut. Add to that the fact that even if the economy was in full boom there simply wouldn't be enough jobs to support an extra 20-30 million individuals and its a socioeconomic dichotomy if I've ever seen one.

Oh, please. Last time I checked the poor folk were breeding like mice. More of da welfare, ya know.. :) At least in Western society that is. It has been my experiecne that most abortions in the US are from the middle to upper classes.


Tim-
 

Donc

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I wonder how long before this thread is moved to where it belongs.
 
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