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1911 .45's

Logicman

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If you have a favorite 1911 .45 sidearm then I'd love to see it. The 1911's have been in service in the U.S. military since WWI, and even though the Beretta 92 replaced it in the 80's, the 1911's are still used by various military agencies. Kimber has the Warrior SOC modeled after the MARSOC Kimber Warrior. And 'American Sniper' Chris Kyle reportedly carried a Springfield TRP Operator when he was in Iraq.

I have several Springfield TRP Operators and so far they're both 100% reliable with zero FFT, stovepipes, or FTE's, etc. They have adjustable night sights, extended magazine well, and match grade components. The two I have are real nail drivers - very accurate.

Here's a stock photo of the TRP Operator with a full-length rail.

Springfield TRP.jpg
 
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Goshin

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Love 1911's. Don't own one just the now, but its on "the list".



Lead brick of a carry gun though.
 

Logicman

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Here's a Springfield TRP Operator with the 3/4 rail and Surefire tactical light.

TRP Operator 2.jpg
 

braindrain

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1911s were great guns for their day and for decades after they were invented. But as almost always happens better designs have come along. When it comes to a combat weapon the modern striker fired pistols ( Glocks and M&Ps to name a couple) have completely outclassed the 1911. Outside of nostalgia there is virtually no reason a 1911 will see service with any professional organization.
 
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braindrain

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Here's a Springfield TRP Operator with the 3/4 rail and Surefire tactical light.

View attachment 67204954

A heavy not overly reliable gun that carries what 7 rounds. Sure if I am shooting some competition as 1911 triggers are hard to beat. If I am deploying again to war. No thank you. I would much rather take either my issued Glock 19 or 22 all day long.
 

Logicman

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A heavy not overly reliable gun that carries what 7 rounds. Sure if I am shooting some competition as 1911 triggers are hard to beat. If I am deploying again to war. No thank you. I would much rather take either my issued Glock 19 or 22 all day long.

"Not reliable"? That hasn't been my experience, and I doubt American Sniper Chris Kyle would have carried one in Iraq if it were an unreliable paperweight. Springfield even created the Chris Kyle Legend TRP 1911 model. And I carried a 1911 in Vietnam along with my M-16 and it wasn't the least bit of a problem.

As for "7 rounds," both Wilson Combat and Chip McCormick make excellent 10+1 magazines for 1911's. And with the .45 having excellent "knock down" power, you won't need to double tap a bad guy like you might with a 9mm. Most sidearm duels are done within about 4-5 rounds anyway, so go with a big load if you can.

And if I ever have to go back to war, I'm taking my 1911.
 

Logicman

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Here's the target after I zeroed in the Surefire X400 laser light on my Operator TRP. It was the last 9 rounds at about 35 feet.

Target Operator TRP.jpg
 

Lutherf

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Colt XSE. Daily carry piece.

b4c0abb8-1131-4aa6-ad9c-48e0d7b63daf_zps5qbnsmaw.jpg
 

Vox

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This would be my current favorite. Function is flawless. Trigger is excellent. Sights are excellent. It looks good. And the price was $450 with a Remington rebate.

I have Glocks. I carry the 1911. It's thinner and carries better. It holds nine rounds. That's more than enough.

:peace


 

braindrain

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"Not reliable"? That hasn't been my experience, and I doubt American Sniper Chris Kyle would have carried one in Iraq if it were an unreliable paperweight. Springfield even created the Chris Kyle Legend TRP 1911 model. And I carried a 1911 in Vietnam along with my M-16 and it wasn't the least bit of a problem.

As for "7 rounds," both Wilson Combat and Chip McCormick make excellent 10+1 magazines for 1911's. And with the .45 having excellent "knock down" power, you won't need to double tap a bad guy like you might with a 9mm. Most sidearm duels are done within about 4-5 rounds anyway, so go with a big load if you can.

And if I ever have to go back to war, I'm taking my 1911.

Let me start by saying that simply because one person says he carried a weapon not only doesn't it make it a good choice it doesn't make it true. A gun company naming a gun after someone does not mean that was that persons issued weapon.
The vast majority of non JSOC SEALS generally carry either the sig in 9mm or a few of the over weight to bulky HK 23. Tell me why exactly do you think the SEALs are all adopting a Glock in the as their new combat pistol.

Furthermore your whole knock down power argument is nothing but nonsense. No pistol ammo knocks someone down. The FBI has done extensive research into handgun shootings by caliber and they all say the same thing. Shoot placement is what matters. A bit kill zone shot with a 45 is no more lethal than a non kill zone shot with a 9mm. In fact the number of rounds necessary to kill a perp rounded to the whole number is the exact same between 9mm and 45.

So tell me again how much more effective it is.
 

braindrain

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This would be my current favorite. Function is flawless. Trigger is excellent. Sights are excellent. It looks good. And the price was $450 with a Remington rebate.

I have Glocks. I carry the 1911. It's thinner and carries better. It holds nine rounds. That's more than enough.

:peace



For a weapon that is never going to get that dirty and most likely will never be fired in anger you are most likely right. Now if you had to shoot thousands of rounds in training and then patrol in extreme dust conditions for a couple days and still need that weapon to function like it did when brand new then I doubt that you would feel the same.
 

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A heavy not overly reliable gun that carries what 7 rounds. Sure if I am shooting some competition as 1911 triggers are hard to beat. If I am deploying again to war. No thank you. I would much rather take either my issued Glock 19 or 22 all day long.

Maybe not overly reliable in days gone by........we used to have a gunsmith tune these for maximum reliability, but these days the 1911s are just as reliable as any Glock.
 

braindrain

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Maybe not overly reliable in days gone by........we used to have a gunsmith tune these for maximum reliability, but these days the 1911s are just as reliable as any Glock.

Tell me what you are basing this on. As virtually no large organization carries a 1911 what proof do you have that they are as reliable as the weapons being carried by the people that use them the most. Tell me why do you think virtually no top teir military organization uses 1911s anymore. The fact of the matter is striker fired pistols now dominate both the military and LE enviroment for the simple reason they are the most rugged dependable designs available.
 

PoS

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Ive got a couple of Norcs, one full sized and a commander version. Excellent man stopping caliber and my grandfather swore by it (he spent years in occupied territory in the Pacific) so his word was good enough for me.
 

Vox

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For a weapon that is never going to get that dirty and most likely will never be fired in anger you are most likely right. Now if you had to shoot thousands of rounds in training and then patrol in extreme dust conditions for a couple days and still need that weapon to function like it did when brand new then I doubt that you would feel the same.

You're young, aren't you? You've probably read a lot of bad information.

My experience with the 1911 dates from 1955. I'm retired military. My first formal training with the weapon was in 1965. The 1911 passed exhaustive tests to become the sidearm of the U.S. Military and served for about 70 years before being replaced by a 9mm to allow compatibility with NATO ammunition.

Most military men would choose the 1911 over the Glock even though the Glock has a lot of merit.

We know what works best.
 

notquiteright

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I love the old school vs new kid arguments.

The only time I was issued the 1911 was when I was the M60 gunner. I didn't carry it on me, it was in my ruck so i didn't lose it. I carried my replacement's M16 if I had to leave the gun- like the chow line or taking a dump.

Even Browning thought better of the design as the HiPower followed right after the 1911 and was the weapon Browning was working on at the time of his death.

The 'what was good enough' and time reference of rather long ago is fun... the M1 Garand was once the best individual weapon fielded by a major military force. These days not so much. the 30 ought is a hellova manstopper. All things considered I'm rather glad I didn't drag either around with me when I was light infantry- perhaps a better judge of practical, reliable weaponry than range queens or carried it in a nice clean environment- and many as far back as WWII grunts looked to lighter weapons over 'manstopping power' which could explain the popularity of the M1 carbine in jungle warfare.

I have an XD45, I could have any pistol- wish now the MP was out when I bought my XD- but I am not about to go back that far in time because I was issued a relic from WWI back when I was a grunt... :peace
 

Vox

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Vox

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Even Browning thought better of the design as the HiPower followed right after the 1911 and was the weapon Browning was working on at the time of his death.

No, the HiPower was a nice 9mm with a high capacity magazine, but was never any competition for the 1911.......which was a far better military weapon all around.
 

Vox

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I was light infantry- perhaps a better judge of practical, reliable weaponry than range queens or carried it in a nice clean environment- and many as far back as WWII grunts looked to lighter weapons over 'manstopping power' which could explain the popularity of the M1 carbine in jungle warfare.

Light weight is wonderful.....and who needs "man-stopping" power?

(Until you actually are in a situation where one shot must stop.......a man.)

;)
 

TurtleDude

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I have lots of pistols including some very expensive 1911s such as a Bill Wilson (yeah one he built) that I used in the early days of USPSA, a couple LEs Baers, a Couple Rock River limited match guns, a couple Fred Craig built 15 shot 1911s using Para-Ord Frames and the two top of the line Kimbers (the match gun and the combat job with the night sights). that being said if I was forced to carry FMJ it would be a SW MP in 45 or a MP in 40

since I don't have to carry FMJ I carry a SIG 938 with Federal Hydrashocks and Keep a CZ SPO1 with Winchester JHPs as the bedside weapon. Both 9mm The big argument for the 1911 is that the straight line trigger is generally better than any of the DA/SA pivoting triggers or the SA only pivoting triggers on stuff like the BHP (which I have several of as well)

if I had to carry a pistol in tough environmental conditions it would be a SW a GLOCK or the extremely well made but overly priced HK P30. I doubt there is a modern pistol that you can get in the USA somewhat easily that I haven't shot
 

braindrain

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You're young, aren't you? You've probably read a lot of bad information.

My experience with the 1911 dates from 1955. I'm retired military. My first formal training with the weapon was in 1965. The 1911 passed exhaustive tests to become the sidearm of the U.S. Military and served for about 70 years before being replaced by a 9mm to allow compatibility with NATO ammunition.

Most military men would choose the 1911 over the Glock even though the Glock has a lot of merit.

We know what works best.


36 years old. 13 years in the Military just over 10 of those in Special operations I have shot more pistol ammo in one year then most people willin their entire career.

You don't think the Glock has passed extensive tests. Hell there are a couple units within the military with virtually unlimited budgets that hung on to 1911s when the rest of the military switched to the M9. Guess what, they no longer use them anymore either. Why do you think that is. And no it's not a caliber issue as I issued both a Glock 19 and a 22.

First of all the vast majority of those in the military have virtually zero training or skill I'm using a pistol but among most military folks, at least this who know due to actually shooting lots of pistol ammo, would not choose a 1911.
Sorry but you are simply wrong.
 

braindrain

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For those who prefer the 9mm......it IS an OK round and it does have the advantage of offering more rounds per magazine, but most of us prefer something that will do more damage.......just in case we're in a situation where ONE ROUND has to suffice.

Here's a link that will give you a rough idea of what we're talking about.

https://maropost.s3.amazonaws.com/u...1/Handgun_gel_comparison_service_calibers.jpg

That's nice. Hoe about you actually look up the FBI studies as to the average number of rounds per caliber required to kill someone. Guess what. The average shooting either 45 or 9mm takes the same number of rounds.

The fact is pistols suck at killing no matter what the caliber. Your best bet is multiply hits to the central nervous system. The whole single round reliable kills with a 45 is and always has been nothing more then a fairy tale.
 

Vox

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36 years old. 13 years in the Military just over 10 of those in Special operations I have shot more pistol ammo in one year then most people willin their entire career.

You don't think the Glock has passed extensive tests. Hell there are a couple units within the military with virtually unlimited budgets that hung on to 1911s when the rest of the military switched to the M9. Guess what, they no longer use them anymore either. Why do you think that is. And no it's not a caliber issue as I issued both a Glock 19 and a 22.

First of all the vast majority of those in the military have virtually zero training or skill I'm using a pistol but among most military folks, at least this who know due to actually shooting lots of pistol ammo, would not choose a 1911.
Sorry but you are simply wrong.

No, you're wrong, but not completely.....and with good reason, I think. Cost consideration is not part of your assessment.

I know Glocks pass many tests and I own and shoot Glocks. They are excellent.

You think Glocks are chosen by the military because they are better.

No, Glocks are chosen because the military can get a Glock 19 for $320 and a high quality 1911 .45 would cost three times that much.

There is also a need for ammo compatibility with NATO forces.

There is also the fact that not everybody can handle the recoil of the 1911 .45 and, for them, the Glock in 9mm is a better choice (more women getting into this all the time so smaller weapons make sense).

And, we must face it, the Glocks work!! And better yet, their low price makes them almost disposable, so fewer highly trained techs are needed for upkeep. (That's another budget consideration.)

However, if you give an experienced military man a choice he'll probably choose that expensive 1911......but the military won't buy it for him--why should they?

That said, the MARSOC and the SEALS still have thousands of very high grade 1911s and they aren't mothballed......they are ready for use and I don't doubt they're still used by some.

By the way, what branch of the military are you in? Who is issuing Glock 22s now?
 
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RetiredNSmilin

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If someone could PM me directions on how to upload pics here, I would love to show you mine.

along with my beautiful M14.
 

braindrain

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No, you're wrong, but not completely.....and with good reason, I think. Cost consideration is not part of your assessment.

I know Glocks pass many tests and I own and shoot Glocks. They are excellent.

You think Glocks are chosen by the military because they are better.

No, Glocks are chosen because the military can get a Glock 19 for $320 and a high quality 1911 .45 would cost three times that much.

There is also a need for ammo compatibility with NATO forces.

There is also the fact that not everybody can handle the recoil of the 1911 .45 and, for them, the Glock in 9mm is a better choice (more women getting into this all the time so smaller weapons make sense).

And, we must face it, the Glocks work!! And better yet, their low price makes them almost disposable, so fewer highly trained techs are needed for upkeep. (That's another budget consideration.)

However, if you give an experienced military man a choice he'll probably choose that expensive 1911......but the military won't buy it for him--why should they?

That said, the MARSOC and the SEALS still have thousands of very high grade 1911s and they aren't mothballed......they are ready for use and I don't doubt they're still used by some.

By the way, what branch of the military are you in? Who is issuing Glock 22s now?

No I am not wrong. What you say about budget restraints is true across the military as a whole but fall well short when you start talking about units within SOCOM and those are the folks that due a ton more pistol shooting then the rest of the military. The budgets for things like weapons are much much larger per person within those units. A perfect example of that is our sniper rifles. Both our 110s and XM2010s come with expensive high quality scopes on them. Those scopes sit in our arms room never being used because our unit as a whole simply prefers a different reticle so we just bought different glass for them and never use the original ones. And we are talking about scopes that are in the 3200 to 3400 dollar range. So no it is not simply a cost issue as to why Glocks are used over 1911s

And you are completely wrong that Glocks are not treated as anywhere near disposable. Twice a year a year we have techs come out and give all our Glocks a once over replacing all parts that show wear. And our unit level armorers can replace any part in the weapon if something goes wrong with a pistol in between those visits.

You did bring up a good point though. And that is that 1911s that are run hard definitely do need a full time armorers to keep them running. Not a great thing for a combat pistol.
It's because the 1911 design is simply not as reliable as a Glocks.

You keep saying a military man would choose a 1911 but are not backing it up with anything. I can tell you that I know very few SOF guys who carry 1911s back home in the states while the vast majority carry either Glocks or M&Ps.

As to MARSOC. Using 1911s you are right that the do have and use them but all the guys from there I have worked with preferred Glocks. And apparently enough of them felt the same way as now they are moving to Glocks over their 1911s.

Marines Allow Operators to Choose Glocks over MARSOC .45s | Military.com


As to SEALs. While I don't doubt they have some in their arms rooms stashed away somewhere I have never seen one carrying on. And if they want a 45 so badly they have the H@K Mk23 so not many 1911s being used their. And they are even replacing their Sig 226s with a Glock

Naval Special Warfare adopts the Glock 19 | The Loadout Room

So no it would seem that not many military people, at least not those that do the most pistol shooting, would choose a 1911 over a Glock.

I am in the Army by the way.
 
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