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170 page How to Molest Children manual...

Ikari

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You got what you gave me, that's all there is to it. If you want to talk manners, look in that ol' mirror first. You didn't show me any manners from your first response to me since; why should I have to show you manners? You get what you dish out, and if you don't like what you get maybe you should consider changing what you dish out.
 

jallman

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You got what you gave me, that's all there is to it.

I'm looking for manners, not excuses. Or you can move along and not discuss this with me. I am having a grand ole' time not discussing it with you. Of course, part of that is laughing hysterically at your behavior.

LOL U mad bro?
 

Ikari

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I ain't mad. I find it a bit hypocritical though that you demand behavior from me that you won't show me yourself. So that's that. I'll always give back that which is given to me, if you don't like it that's your problem. You've done nothing but invent excuses to not debate since your first attack against me; that's all there is to it. You want me to show you manners? You'll have to pony up and show me some manners. The choice is yours.
 

jallman

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I ain't mad. I find it a bit hypocritical though that you demand behavior from me that you won't show me yourself. So that's that. I'll always give back that which is given to me, if you don't like it that's your problem. You've done nothing but invent excuses to not debate since your first attack against me; that's all there is to it. You want me to show you manners? You'll have to pony up and show me some manners. The choice is yours.

LOL U mad bro?
 

Ikari

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LOL U mad bro?

That's fine. You don't have to grow up or behave in the manner you demand others behave. That's your choice. But I have no time for the intellectually dishonest nor those with weak resolve. As you said, other kids in the sand box.

But if you do choose to grow up and behave appropriately, come back. Till then, I'm just going to ignore your tantrum.
 

jallman

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That's fine. You don't have to grow up or behave in the manner you demand others behave. That's your choice. But I have no time for the intellectually dishonest nor those with weak resolve. As you said, other kids in the sand box.

But if you do choose to grow up and behave appropriately, come back. Till then, I'm just going to ignore your tantrum.

Well you certainly sound mad because you got what you gave...
 

Ikari

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Well you certainly sound mad because you got what you gave...

hahahah, no. It takes a bit more than internet bitching to piss me off. I'm not pissed, but you will continue to get what you give me; that's just how I roll. If you wish to be treated with respect, you'll have to demonstrate respect. And that doesn't include making the first attack and then bitching when I fire back.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Will you two knock it off, please? The rest of us are trying to discuss the topic in here.
 

LaMidRighter

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What about the Anarchist Cookbook or the Poor Man's James Bond? Those violate incitement laws? I mean, where are we going with this. How many books do we ban? Maybe we can do an old fashioned book burning; those are always fun for the kids. Like it or not, it's just a book. You can't ban it because you think the contents are icky. If there's been no violation of law; that's that.
One key difference though. "The Anarchist Cookbook" and "The Poor Man's James Bond" have elements in them which could be abused but there are actual basic chemistry and physics elements contained within so they do have literary value other than malicious violent or property crime elements so that is a good example of protected speech. Molesting children is illegal in all 50 states and an abhorrent act, in a round about way "How to Molest Children" pretty much speaks to a very specific intent and there is no scientific, literary, or even societal value to it.

I will say though, *if* it can be proven an effective tool in it's reverse to educate children on avoidance of the predators then I guess a case could be made that the book does a good in a roundabout way but to me that is just stretching. I think the book is protected, but that doesn't excuse the act of publishing this tripe.
 

Ikari

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One key difference though. "The Anarchist Cookbook" and "The Poor Man's James Bond" have elements in them which could be abused but there are actual basic chemistry and physics elements contained within so they do have literary value other than malicious violent or property crime elements so that is a good example of protected speech. Molesting children is illegal in all 50 states and an abhorrent act, in a round about way "How to Molest Children" pretty much speaks to a very specific intent and there is no scientific, literary, or even societal value to it.

I will say though, *if* it can be proven an effective tool in it's reverse to educate children on avoidance of the predators then I guess a case could be made that the book does a good in a roundabout way but to me that is just stretching. I think the book is protected, but that doesn't excuse the act of publishing this tripe.

You have obviously never read the Poor Man's James Bond. You should check it out. Tells you how to make all sorts of human killing traps. Even has a bunch of **** on hand to hand combat. But what I don't see is the distinction you're making between one form of violence and another. Both the Anarchist Cookbook and to a much larger extent The Poor Man's James Bond are instruction booklets for revolutionaries and has methodologies for gorilla warfare and how you would approach some of it. Yeah, they do talk a lot of chemicals and bomb making, but does that mean that it now has literary value? Because you can learn to make a bomb or because it had chemistry? What if this 170 page pamphlet has basic biology in it? Does it then have literary value?

I think the only real difference between books which promote revolution and anarchy vs one which details child molestation is merely the topic of the books. While revolution may be a valid tool of the People, it is still illegal everywhere. But for some reason many more of us are comfortable with a book telling of how to make bombs and traps and ambushes than we are with one about child molestation; even though the potential harm is much greater overall in the former than the latter. And that's why we're trying to make this differentiation between the books; but they are similar and if you allow one you have to allow them all.
 

jallman

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You have obviously never read the Poor Man's James Bond. You should check it out. Tells you how to make all sorts of human killing traps. Even has a bunch of **** on hand to hand combat. But what I don't see is the distinction you're making between one form of violence and another. Both the Anarchist Cookbook and to a much larger extent The Poor Man's James Bond are instruction booklets for revolutionaries and has methodologies for gorilla warfare and how you would approach some of it. Yeah, they do talk a lot of chemicals and bomb making, but does that mean that it now has literary value? Because you can learn to make a bomb or because it had chemistry? What if this 170 page pamphlet has basic biology in it? Does it then have literary value?

I think the only real difference between books which promote revolution and anarchy vs one which details child molestation is merely the topic of the books. While revolution may be a valid tool of the People, it is still illegal everywhere. But for some reason many more of us are comfortable with a book telling of how to make bombs and traps and ambushes than we are with one about child molestation; even though the potential harm is much greater overall in the former than the latter. And that's why we're trying to make this differentiation between the books; but they are similar and if you allow one you have to allow them all.

To me, it's the difference between ideas that would be implemented more globally versus manuals on how to perpetrate predations upon a single individual. One just seems so much more focused and full of real intent than the other does.
 

Ikari

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To me, it's the difference between ideas that would be implemented more globally versus manuals on how to perpetrate predations upon a single individual. One just seems so much more focused and full of real intent than the other does.

That's a personal preference though and not one based on fact and measurement. The one you are in more disagreement with you are going to say is more focused intent, but is it really? Does the book encourage it? Does it say "Hey, this is fun and everyone should do it!"? Or is it information and nothing more, bound and published? There's little difference, both are books. Both have information which can be used in the commission of crimes. In fact, building bombs has a higher potential of negatively affecting more people. But we accept one and not the other. The reason, I claim, is perception and nothing more. In the end, both can be dangerous books; but they are books. They have information, people have to choose to read it and choose to use the information. Other than topic, there really is not a lot of difference between the two books.
 

Catz Part Deux

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I think that possession of the book would be evidence, but only when linked with actual molestation, just like possession of the anarchist cookbook has been used to build cases against animal rights terrorists in some states.
 

jallman

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I think that possession of the book would be evidence, but only when linked with actual molestation, just like possession of the anarchist cookbook has been used to build cases against animal rights terrorists in some states.

Well I definitely wouldn't want to charge someone for simply possessing the material. However, I wouldn't mind seeing some liability fall on the author of the material when it is used in conjunction with a real crime.

But again, that would all also depend on whether or not there was real advocacy in the book.
 

LaMidRighter

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You have obviously never read the Poor Man's James Bond. You should check it out. Tells you how to make all sorts of human killing traps.
Those have existed since the dawn of war, you can see deathtraps on certain episodes of Deadliest Warrior. There's a historical relevance at minimum in that. As well, anything can be lethal and most people already understand that at some basic level. It's not like this is new information that would be used specifically by those of ill intent.
Even has a bunch of **** on hand to hand combat.
Can be used in other than illegal situations, for instance a surprise assault while camping, urban survival, etc.
But what I don't see is the distinction you're making between one form of violence and another. Both the Anarchist Cookbook and to a much larger extent The Poor Man's James Bond are instruction booklets for revolutionaries and has methodologies for gorilla warfare and how you would approach some of it. Yeah, they do talk a lot of chemicals and bomb making, but does that mean that it now has literary value?
Life has an element of violence, I don't think there really needs to be a distinction. Legal violence exists and there are legal applications which can be found within either of those manuals, again; it's never legal to molest children.
Because you can learn to make a bomb or because it had chemistry?
The two aren't mutually exclusive, bombs are based on multiple chemical properties and chemistry laws all of which must be met for detonation. I don't see why both aren't relevant as literary value.
What if this 170 page pamphlet has basic biology in it?
But this is not dependant on the subject matter which involves the commission of a crime.
Does it then have literary value?
Possibly, but again there is only one intent that can be deduced from a title such as "How to Molest Children".

I think the only real difference between books which promote revolution and anarchy vs one which details child molestation is merely the topic of the books. While revolution may be a valid tool of the People, it is still illegal everywhere. But for some reason many more of us are comfortable with a book telling of how to make bombs and traps and ambushes than we are with one about child molestation; even though the potential harm is much greater overall in the former than the latter.
A bomb has a specific radius of effectiveness and a single use whereas a damaged child can become a menace to society without the proper mental treatment. I'd say a psychologically damaged child is much more destructive than a bomb. As well bombs usually are used for specific targets, I haven't pissed anyone off enough to have to worry about one, but a ****ed up human being? Different story.
And that's why we're trying to make this differentiation between the books; but they are similar and if you allow one you have to allow them all.
There is a vast difference between giving information that "could" be used in the two other books and that which most certainly will be used in the subject of this topic.
 

Ikari

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I think that possession of the book would be evidence, but only when linked with actual molestation, just like possession of the anarchist cookbook has been used to build cases against animal rights terrorists in some states.

What! ****....gotta hide those books. Seriously, there's not a lot of cool crap in the Anarchists Cookbook. It's all about The Poor Man's James Bond.
 

Ikari

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Those have existed since the dawn of war, you can see deathtraps on certain episodes of Deadliest Warrior. There's a historical relevance at minimum in that. As well, anything can be lethal and most people already understand that at some basic level. It's not like this is new information that would be used specifically by those of ill intent. Can be used in other than illegal situations, for instance a surprise assault while camping, urban survival, etc. Life has an element of violence, I don't think there really needs to be a distinction. Legal violence exists and there are legal applications which can be found within either of those manuals, again; it's never legal to molest children. The two aren't mutually exclusive, bombs are based on multiple chemical properties and chemistry laws all of which must be met for detonation. I don't see why both aren't relevant as literary value. But this is not dependant on the subject matter which involves the commission of a crime. Possibly, but again there is only one intent that can be deduced from a title such as "How to Molest Children".

A bomb has a specific radius of effectiveness and a single use whereas a damaged child can become a menace to society without the proper mental treatment. I'd say a psychologically damaged child is much more destructive than a bomb. As well bombs usually are used for specific targets, I haven't pissed anyone off enough to have to worry about one, but a ****ed up human being? Different story. There is a vast difference between giving information that "could" be used in the two other books and that which most certainly will be used in the subject of this topic.

Violence has been around for a long time, along with books and instructions about it. That's sorta the point, right? You're trying to differentiate between two books because you can be ok with one, but incredibly uncomfortable with the other being legal; so there has to be a reason why one is ok and one is wrong. But the reasons which have been presented are reasons of perception and nothing more. It's not fact or measured quantity. The measured quantity is that both books contain potentially harmful information. And I say potentially harmful to make a distinction in your last sentence. It's not most certainly will be used, it may be used. Someone has to read the book and then someone has to make the choice to act out using that information.

Now you may say that a punji pit could be used in some righteous manner, one which doesn't break the law. But if you put to use anything in How to Molest a Child you are automatically breaking a law. Maybe true, though the purpose of things like the Poor Man's James Bond and such is not to inform some little kid how to play a prank on their buddy, but rather as information for revolutionaries and guerrilla warfare. But maybe you can read "How to Molest Children" as a preventative measure as well. Know what the common sorts of tricks and whatever are so that you can better educate your children against the harm of strangers or touching or what have you. So it could have literary value right there. Just because you don't envision a good use doesn't mean one doesn't exist, nor does it mean it's ok to then ban the book.

The book is never at fault, the person who makes the choice is.
 

LaMidRighter

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Violence has been around for a long time, along with books and instructions about it. That's sorta the point, right? You're trying to differentiate between two books because you can be ok with one, but incredibly uncomfortable with the other being legal; so there has to be a reason why one is ok and one is wrong. But the reasons which have been presented are reasons of perception and nothing more. It's not fact or measured quantity. The measured quantity is that both books contain potentially harmful information. And I say potentially harmful to make a distinction in your last sentence. It's not most certainly will be used, it may be used. Someone has to read the book and then someone has to make the choice to act out using that information.
Huge difference, "Anarchist Cookbook" and "Poor Man's James Bond" aren't labeled "How to Overthrow a Society" or "How to Committ Violence on Others" while the title of the book in question is in fact "How to Molest Children", there isn't exactly a question of intent here.

Now you may say that a punji pit could be used in some righteous manner, one which doesn't break the law. But if you put to use anything in How to Molest a Child you are automatically breaking a law. Maybe true, though the purpose of things like the Poor Man's James Bond and such is not to inform some little kid how to play a prank on their buddy, but rather as information for revolutionaries and guerrilla warfare.
However guerilla revolutionaries and their acts aren't as prevalent as child molesters, this is a problem.
But maybe you can read "How to Molest Children" as a preventative measure as well. Know what the common sorts of tricks and whatever are so that you can better educate your children against the harm of strangers or touching or what have you. So it could have literary value right there.
Which I have already conceded.
Just because you don't envision a good use doesn't mean one doesn't exist, nor does it mean it's ok to then ban the book.
I've already said the book is likely protected, my opinion is that the author is a piece of ****.
The book is never at fault, the person who makes the choice is.
It's not that easy, the intent of a literary piece is the judgement of it's protected status. Anything that asserts an assassination of a political figure as of it's writing is not protected, as well....writings advocating intentional harm are not. The writer can be prosecuted and the piece can in very very extreme cases be banned or flagged.
 

Ikari

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Huge difference, "Anarchist Cookbook" and "Poor Man's James Bond" aren't labeled "How to Overthrow a Society" or "How to Committ Violence on Others" while the title of the book in question is in fact "How to Molest Children", there isn't exactly a question of intent here.

They could very well be named that and there would be no change in the information presented in the books. A rose by any other name.... The name is not intent, the name is a name. You could have called it "How to prevent child molestation" and it would have the same exact information. The title is just a title, what matters is what is in the book. The information that is divulged. That doesn't change with a name, a name is but a name. As I said, I think most of the opposition to this is made on perception, not a measured quantity.
 

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They could very well be named that and there would be no change in the information presented in the books. A rose by any other name.... The name is not intent, the name is a name.

I think it speaks to intent and incitement. Again, there is no way to really know without reading the rhetoric of the book itself.
 

Ikari

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I think it speaks to intent and incitement. Again, there is no way to really know without reading the rhetoric of the book itself.

Yeah, it's true that we'd really have to read it to see what it was endorsing or not endorsing. Don't know if I'd take the time though....last thing I need is to end up on another list.
 

LaMidRighter

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They could very well be named that and there would be no change in the information presented in the books. A rose by any other name.... The name is not intent, the name is a name. You could have called it "How to prevent child molestation" and it would have the same exact information. The title is just a title, what matters is what is in the book. The information that is divulged. That doesn't change with a name, a name is but a name. As I said, I think most of the opposition to this is made on perception, not a measured quantity.
Fair enough, and I don't think bans are appropriate for most things, but especially BOR protected items. I find this particular book to be completely distasteful however and it should have the dreaded "flag" IMHO.
 

Ikari

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Fair enough, and I don't think bans are appropriate for most things, but especially BOR protected items. I find this particular book to be completely distasteful however and it should have the dreaded "flag" IMHO.

I don't think anyone could argue against the distastefulness of the book. But distasteful isn't enough. I don't like the flagging either because I am personally very wary of and uncomfortable with government data mining. No one should be on a list because of a book.
 

TurtleDude

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Some one now needs to write a 170 page manual in how to defend your kids from molesters. There should also be a chapter on how to use the right amount of force.

or how to build a rack and Iron Maiden if you catch some scum bag molesting your kid
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Pfft, that assumes there'd be something left for such devices to torture. :lol:

I think a better one would be, "Drove Me Over the Edge: How to mount a successful temporary insanity defense after you murder the molester of your child."
 
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