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14th and 16th Amendments, frauds perpetrated on We, the People?

The power to write (and pass) federal legislation is a power the fed govt always had.




my statement was about the 14th, and that it grants a power, to write federal legislation concerning what is stated in the 14th, and that it does not reduce the power of government.

please follow closer!
 
my statement was about the 14th, and that it grants a power, to write federal legislation concerning what is stated in the 14th, and that it does not reduce the power of government.

You are wrong. The 14th grants no power to the federal govt. It removes a power the feds and states used to have.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
You are wrong. The 14th grants no power to the federal govt. It removes a power the feds and states used to have.

guy you are really making yourself look bad!

the constitution is about powers.

AMENDMENT XIV
Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
 
guy you are really making yourself look bad!
--
Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

And the provisions of this article do what, exactly?
 
The fourteenth and sixteen amendment were government power grabs.

The 16th and 17th yes

the 14th was more a power strip of the state governments
 
Especially the 14th Amendment.

With examples of twisting this Amendment to artificially make it fit immigration wherein its original intent was to correct citizenship for newly freed slaves... then its clear use by activist courts to basically signal that now its pretty much open season, anything goes,

“...well, you let them over there do it, so its discrimination if you don't let us [pick your virtue or, more often, vice ] do it"

Not to mention this is an avenue, a backdoor, to allow an overreach by the Federal government into areas not specifically enumerated in our Constitution. Seems to me that is somewhat of a breach of the contract under which the states, those 13 independent nations under the Articles of Confederation, were made promises to get them to give up part of their sovereignty in order to become a union.

If you study the 14ths ratification do you find it unacceptable that, apparently, besides being passed under duress, it seemingly does not comply with the strict Constitutional guidelines as set up under Article V of the US Constitution?

Article V, U.S. Constitution

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

As this last part of the rules regarding amendments was undeniably not followed, should it be an amendment? Please read [ or at least skim to have a basic working knowledge ] both links to assure a decent understanding.

While I know many of you may desperately want it to be valid, if it is not...then it just is not.

David Lawrence: There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!

The Constitution For The United States, Its Sources and Its Applications - Article I

Then the 16th, for reasons small and large, is also quite questionable.

The Law That Never Was: The Fraud of Income & Social Security Tax — {0}


One of those interesting little nuggets garnered in researching this topic was a fact I didn't know:

Ohio had, in 1953, to be retroactively admitted into the union. Though the Ohio state convention had agreed to petition for admittance into the Union in 1802 and our US Congress approved that action in 1803, the convention simply did not complete the proper steps to grant statehood. The*8th Congress*(1803–1805) missed a critical part of the statehood process: congressional ratification of the state constitution.*So in 1953 it was retroactively admitted into the Union."

Error Document in Historical-Highlights/1951-2000/The-admission-of-Ohio-as-a-state/

Of course, as stated in the link on the 16th amendment, that is Ex Post Facto. All of which goes to show these things must done correctly for these to be legal.

Maybe there are other amendments that might not truly be amendments?

Frankly I don't care that traitors who killed thousands of loyal Americans were forced to ratify an amendment that forced them to at least pretend that the African Americans in their state were human beings instead of property.

Serves them right. Still sticks in their craw, I bet.
 
guy you are really making yourself look bad!

the constitution is about powers.

Wrong again. The constitution is about several things. Not just powers

AMENDMENT XIV
Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Sec 5 only states a truism (ie that Congress can pass laws to enforce the constitution) and grants no new powers. And the legislation it refers to is law which restricts the powers of fed and state govt.

Only a wingnut would believe the power to limit govt action is an expansion of govt
 
Wrong again. The constitution is about several things. Not just powers

the constitution is about powers, it grants no rights.

the 10th amendment is the very definition of federalism, the separation of powers



Sec 5 only states a truism (ie that Congress can pass laws to enforce the constitution) and grants no new powers

sec 5 grants a new power increasing federal power
 
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the 5th amendment is a restriction on federal power to create no laws, concerning those things in the 5th.....read the bill of rights PREAMBLE

again you don't follow along good, the 14th is a grant of new power, not the 5th.

Your response is non-responsive.

You said the constitution is about powers when it's clearly about more than powers.
 
then what is it about then?

Try reading it. Start here
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
 
Frankly I don't care that traitors who killed thousands of loyal Americans were forced to ratify an amendment that forced them to at least pretend that the African Americans in their state were human beings instead of property.

Serves them right. Still sticks in their craw, I bet.
I hate to be the harbinger of bad news for ya, but all those folks died a long long time ago.

Now you want us saddled with an illegitimate amendment that stipulates the National government is allowed to intervene in states affairs where it has no true business? Not Constitutional as agreed upon by the nations coming together to form the united States into these United States.

Certainly it is not if it was not passed Constitutionally.
 
The OP is further evidence that conservatives like exactly two Amendments: the 2nd and the 10th. Most other Amendments, as far as they're concerned, can go to Hell.
 
I hate to be the harbinger of bad news for ya, but all those folks died a long long time ago.

Now you want us saddled with an illegitimate amendment that stipulates the National government is allowed to intervene in states affairs where it has no true business? Not Constitutional as agreed upon by the nations coming together to form the united States into these United States.

Certainly it is not if it was not passed Constitutionally.

We've been "saddled" with that amendment for well over a hundred years by now, and the country hasn't collapsed into anarchy.

But yeah, let's take away a amendment granting citizenship to those born here or go through the process to be naturalized and prohibits people from blocking or taking away the rights of the citizens without just cause.

Yeah, cause that's a great idea.

The United States were never separate nations. That idea died out a time ago.

And yeah---it wasn't. But hatred and treason don't get a say in deciding what's constitutional.
 
We've been "saddled" with that amendment for well over a hundred years by now, and the country hasn't collapsed into anarchy.

But yeah, let's take away a amendment granting citizenship to those born here or go through the process to be naturalized and prohibits people from blocking or taking away the rights of the citizens without just cause.

Yeah, cause that's a great idea.

The United States were never separate nations. That idea died out a time ago.

And yeah---it wasn't. But hatred and treason don't get a say in deciding what's constitutional.
No, you are right, so why should we listen to your hatred? We shouldn't, we should remain a nation of laws, a nation that abides by its own rules. Don't have to be too bright to get that, besides which I just explained it to you.
 
Yes, an introductory statement that describes what the constitution is about

yes and its powers.

the constitution was created,and it gave us federalism a separation of powers, and a federal state.

state have powers and so does the federal government.
 
The OP is further evidence that conservatives like exactly two Amendments: the 2nd and the 10th. Most other Amendments, as far as they're concerned, can go to Hell.
Yeah? Where are your sources on that?

You see, liberals like to make it up as they go merrily along, creating havoc in their wake that they then blame on others. But by making it up they can sometimes win. Don't like solid rules in place either, cause people can rely on those and themselves, not the liberal client group factions extending a helping hand to addict them to all manner of crap at the rest of our expense.
 
yes and its powers.

And its' structure

And its' purpose

the constitution was created,and it gave us federalism a separation of powers, and a federal state.

state have powers and so does the federal government.

It gave us much more. You obviously have a limited understanding of the constitution
 
the preamble to the constitution is an introductory statement.

Sorry cant agree with that, if its used by the Supreme Court as finding rationale in cases before it, it is part of the Constitution as a whole.
 
The OP is further evidence that conservatives like exactly two Amendments: the 2nd and the 10th. Most other Amendments, as far as they're concerned, can go to Hell.

You don't talk to constitutional conservatives, do you?
 
Yeah? Where are your sources on that?

We liberals place a high value on thinking for ourselves and drawing our own conclusions. You should try it sometime. Perhaps you would then finally reach the same conclusion that I did.

You see, liberals like to make it up as they go merrily along, creating havoc in their wake that they then blame on others. But by making it up they can sometimes win. Don't like solid rules in place either, cause people can rely on those and themselves, not the liberal client group factions extending a helping hand to addict them to all manner of crap at the rest of our expense.

:lamo

Says the side who voted for George W. Bush!
 
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