130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US [W:269]

[Sykes]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

Well since you want to kill kids in the womb to alleviate this problem, why not just kill the kids waiting to be adopted too, problem solved.

There are no kids in womb.

Unless you're talking about goats. Goats have kids.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

How does this logic go? "Let's create some more!"

Adopt America Network | Children for Adoption

A more pertinent question to ask would be "why is adopting a child so complicated and expensive". Correct that and watch the waiting list evaporate.

Your attempt to suggest that there are a lot of children that are unwanted is bogus - the legal hoops good hearted, well meaning people have to go through in order to adopt a child is criminal, in my view.

 

[Sykes]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

A more pertinent question to ask would be "why is adopting a child so complicated and expensive". Correct that and watch the waiting list evaporate.

Your attempt to suggest that there are a lot of children that are unwanted is bogus - the legal hoops good hearted, well meaning people have to go through in order to adopt a child is criminal, in my view.

That is a very good question, and I quite agree.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

That is a very good question, and I quite agree.

I have an answer to my own question, actually. In my view, it is so difficult to adopt a child because the government run child welfare bureaucracy has a vested interest in making sure children remain in their care and under their control. If it was easy, they'd likely not have jobs.

 

[Sykes]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

I have an answer to my own question, actually. In my view, it is so difficult to adopt a child because the government run child welfare bureaucracy has a vested interest in making sure children remain in their care and under their control. If it was easy, they'd likely not have jobs.

Fisher said the same thing.

Still. I believe the cost of adoption to be about making money as well. It shouldn't be that only the well-off can afford to adopt.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

Fisher said the same thing.

Still. I believe the cost of adoption to be about making money as well. It shouldn't be that only the well-off can afford to adopt.

Oh yes, I agree whole-heartedly, that on the legal side of it, it's all about making money - lawyers can be the stick in the spokes of any smoothly running operation.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

A more pertinent question to ask would be "why is adopting a child so complicated and expensive". Correct that and watch the waiting list evaporate.

Your attempt to suggest that there are a lot of children that are unwanted is bogus - the legal hoops good hearted, well meaning people have to go through in order to adopt a child is criminal, in my view.

I spent a fair amount of time representing kids in the system in CPS court. I disagree with your claim that "children are unwanted" is bogus. It has nothing to do with legal loopholes. It has everything to do with many of the things listed on the website Sykes posted...such as:

For these children, every day that passes without a family of their own is an eternity – especially since they are dealing with very special needs and situations, including:

Victims of extreme neglect.

Victims of abuse – sexual, physical, emotional.

Mentally or medically fragile children (ranging from minor problems to terminally ill).

Part of a sibling group of two or more (the greater the number, the harder it is to find a permanent home).

Of minority or biracial heritage.

Older children with the associated problems of long-term care in the foster system.

You can deny the reality that people don't want the children listed above all you want, but I have witnessed, first hand, just how much they aren't wanted.

You are simply wrong, my friend. Most people who want to adopt want as much of a pristine baby as possible, under the age of 1 year old, and preferably under 6 months old with medical records, a much family history as possible. Most people aren't willing to adopt older children. Believe me when I say there are many more children in the system that 130,000...who will live out most of their childhood in the system.

Yes, there's always exceptions to every situation, but unfortunately...there aren't enough exceptions to take on all of these children. The are simply abandoned children.

But, pro-life advocates are very fine with all I've just posted. After all, these children survived to live in their hell...abandoned, ignored by the very people who struggle so hard to make sure that they exist...not a victim of abortion.

 

[SassySmartie]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

I don't know why you continue to make this claim, which is patently false. So I'm going to repeat what I've posted to you so many times: Somebody out there is offering shelter and job training and other support to mothers/young couples who choose to keep their babies. Creating low-cost/sliding scale clinics that offer a real choice beyond abortion. Many, if not most, of those doing what they can are pro-life.

Can you give some examples? Those "pregnancy crisis clinics" just tell outright lies to guilt women into choosing to carry the pregnancy to term. Who is the "somebody" out there?

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

That is a very good question, and I quite agree.

Sykes...I disagree with CanadaJohn's post...and I think you're not aware of the scope of issues involved when it comes to the types of children listed in your OP. You might want to read what I replied to CanadaJohn on page 4, post #32, I think.

 

[SassySmartie]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

A more pertinent question to ask would be "why is adopting a child so complicated and expensive". Correct that and watch the waiting list evaporate.

Your attempt to suggest that there are a lot of children that are unwanted is bogus - the legal hoops good hearted, well meaning people have to go through in order to adopt a child is criminal, in my view.

Not exactly. Lots of kids enter foster care because they are abused or neglected. Those kids hang out in foster care while their parents are given a chance to get the kids back (sometimes this takes years). Many of them wind up institutionalized or living in group homes because they have emotional and behavioral problems as a result of the abuse/neglect. As for whoever said case workers keep kids in foster so they'll have a job... That is the most idiotic statement I've read in a while. These people work for minimal pay and take a heavy caseload and often burn out and quit (emphasis mine):

Foster Care Statistics:

On September 30, 2004, 518,000 children were in the U.S. foster care system. Most children are placed in foster care temporarily due to parental abuse or neglect.

A record 304,000 children entered the system in 2004, according to one study. Much of the rise was due to methamphetamine use. Experts estimate that 80 to 90 percent of foster care placements can be traced to substance abuse.

About 40,000 infants are placed in foster care every year.

126,000 children are currently available for adoption.

On average, children stay in the system for almost three years (31 months) before either being reunited with their families or adopted. Almost 20 percent wait five years or more. Children have on average three different foster care placements. Frequent moves in and out of the homes of strangers can be profoundly unsettling for children, and it is not uncommon to hear of children who have been in 20 or 30 different homes. Many have been separated not only from their parents, but from their siblings.

More than 20,000 children each year never leave the system -- they remain in foster care until they "age out."

Thirty percent of the homeless in America and some 25 percent of those in prison were once in foster care.

44 percent (or about 241,000 children) have reunification with their birth families as their case goal.

48 percent were in foster family homes (non-relative), 24 percent were in relative foster homes, 18 percent were in group homes or institutions, 4 percent were in pre-adoptive homes, and 6 percent were in other placement types.

The average age of a foster child is 10. Half are 10 or under.

40 percent of foster children are white; 34 are black; 18 percent are Hispanic.

Case workers burn out and leave the profession in very high numbers. The annual turnover rate in the child welfare workforce is more than 20 percent.

The recommended number of cases for a social worker is 17. In some states, the number is three or four times that number.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

I spent a fair amount of time representing kids in the system in CPS court. I disagree with your claim that "children are unwanted" is bogus. It has nothing to do with legal loopholes. It has everything to do with many of the things listed on the website Sykes posted...such as:

For these children, every day that passes without a family of their own is an eternity – especially since they are dealing with very special needs and situations, including:

Victims of extreme neglect.

Victims of abuse – sexual, physical, emotional.

Mentally or medically fragile children (ranging from minor problems to terminally ill).

Part of a sibling group of two or more (the greater the number, the harder it is to find a permanent home).

Of minority or biracial heritage.

Older children with the associated problems of long-term care in the foster system.

You can deny the reality that people don't want the children listed above all you want, but I have witnessed, first hand, just how much they aren't wanted.

You are simply wrong, my friend. Most people who want to adopt want as much of a pristine baby as possible, under the age of 1 year old, and preferably under 6 months old with medical records, a much family history as possible. Most people aren't willing to adopt older children. Believe me when I say there are many more children in the system that 130,000...who will live out most of their childhood in the system.

Yes, there's always exceptions to every situation, but unfortunately...there aren't enough exceptions to take on all of these children. The are simply abandoned children.

But, pro-life advocates are very fine with all I've just posted. After all, these children survived to live in their hell...abandoned, ignored by the very people who struggle so hard to make sure that they exist...not a victim of abortion.

Firstly, I would say that I condemn any parent who abandoned any child as described by you above. To abandon such a child, in my view, is far more troubling to me than to have an abortion.

Secondly, if you can prove to me that there are no people willing to adopt such children and that there is little or no cost to the adoptive family to take on these challenging children, then I will believe that these children are simply unwanted and that is criminal.

I can just as easily provide you anecdotal examples of what I'm referring to:

Here's one - Couple adopt seven siblings after eight-year journey - USATODAY.com This couple adopted seven siblings but it took them eight years - EIGHT YEARS - to complete the journey.

Here's another - Scott And Lauren Sterling, Missouri Couple, Adopt Five Orphaned Peruvian Siblings Who Sent Email Plea (PHOTOS) This couple adopted a family of five Peruvian orphans - only took them a year and $85,000 to get them out of Peru and into their family - here, or in the US, many more years and likely $hundreds of thousands more in costs and legal fees.

Gay couples are crying out for the opportunity to adopt a child or children, but there's lots standing in their way.

Are there children that will never be adopted, no matter how easy it is - yes, of course - but to suggest that the system couldn't be made easier and less costly is nonsense.

 

[SassySmartie]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

I spent a fair amount of time representing kids in the system in CPS court. I disagree with your claim that "children are unwanted" is bogus. It has nothing to do with legal loopholes. It has everything to do with many of the things listed on the website Sykes posted...such as:

For these children, every day that passes without a family of their own is an eternity – especially since they are dealing with very special needs and situations, including:

Victims of extreme neglect.

Victims of abuse – sexual, physical, emotional.

Mentally or medically fragile children (ranging from minor problems to terminally ill).

Part of a sibling group of two or more (the greater the number, the harder it is to find a permanent home).

Of minority or biracial heritage.

Older children with the associated problems of long-term care in the foster system.

You can deny the reality that people don't want the children listed above all you want, but I have witnessed, first hand, just how much they aren't wanted.

You are simply wrong, my friend. Most people who want to adopt want as much of a pristine baby as possible, under the age of 1 year old, and preferably under 6 months old with medical records, a much family history as possible. Most people aren't willing to adopt older children. Believe me when I say there are many more children in the system that 130,000...who will live out most of their childhood in the system.

Yes, there's always exceptions to every situation, but unfortunately...there aren't enough exceptions to take on all of these children. The are simply abandoned children.

But, pro-life advocates are very fine with all I've just posted. After all, these children survived to live in their hell...abandoned, ignored by the very people who struggle so hard to make sure that they exist...not a victim of abortion.

QFT. I have worked almost a decade with kids in residential treatment with emotional and behavioral problems. The horrible effect of being unwanted, neglected, abused and/or born addicted to drugs has a profound and long lasting effect on children.

 

[minnie616]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

Ever consider that the system i.e. the people in Social Services' jobs depend on there being lots of foster kids? I know someone who wanted to adopt their foster child and they were told if they even applied to adopt the child would be removed from their custody and they would not get him back until after the adoption went through in a couple years. They opted to just keep him as a foster child and then he changed his name legally when he was 18 to theirs.

I don't know why that happened the family you knew.
My husbands cousin and his wife cared for many foster children over the years.
In fact they were in the process of adopting one of the foster girls and her sister when my husbands cousin was kidnapped and killed by two teens who were robbing him.

My cousin in law was still able to adopt the two girls and continued to care for foster children for several years after that.

 

[SassySmartie]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

Firstly, I would say that I condemn any parent who abandoned any child as described by you above. To abandon such a child, in my view, is far more troubling to me than to have an abortion.

Secondly, if you can prove to me that there are no people willing to adopt such children and that there is little or no cost to the adoptive family to take on these challenging children, then I will believe that these children are simply unwanted and that is criminal.

I can just as easily provide you anecdotal examples of what I'm referring to:

Here's one - Couple adopt seven siblings after eight-year journey - USATODAY.com This couple adopted seven siblings but it took them eight years - EIGHT YEARS - to complete the journey.

Here's another - Scott And Lauren Sterling, Missouri Couple, Adopt Five Orphaned Peruvian Siblings Who Sent Email Plea (PHOTOS) This couple adopted a family of five Peruvian orphans - only took them a year and $85,000 to get them out of Peru and into their family - here, or in the US, many more years and likely $hundreds of thousands more in costs and legal fees.

Gay couples are crying out for the opportunity to adopt a child or children, but there's lots standing in their way.

Are there children that will never be adopted, no matter how easy it is - yes, of course - but to suggest that the system couldn't be made easier and less costly is nonsense.

Did you bother to read your own sources? The first story with the 7 kids took years because the couple had financial problems and couldn't afford to care for all of them:

Kathy said she and Mike had intended to adopt the children years ago, until Mike lost the sight in his left eye because of a complication with diabetes. A mechanical tool distributor, he was disqualified from holding a commercial driver's license because of the blindness and had to rely on disability benefits for the family's finances.

The incident forced Mike and Kathy to re-evaluate their financial ability to care for all the children, although Mike has since found a new job with CarCo Auto and Truck in Rice, Minn.

The other is an international adoption, the kids are from Peru. Try again.

Agreed that there are far to many obstacles for gay couples to adopt, many of the same people who are anti-choice are also against gays adopting.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

QFT. I have worked almost a decade with kids in residential treatment with emotional and behavioral problems. The horrible effect of being unwanted, neglected, abused and/or born addicted to drugs has a profound and long lasting effect on children.

Well, there's a likely chance we've met...and you couldn't be more correct. I've been around a few RTCs. As you well know, residential treatment for ED kids...in no way meets their needs, because most aren't even properly or fully diagnosed, therefore not receiving the types of effective treatments that they need.

 

[minnie616]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

A more pertinent question to ask would be "why is adopting a child so complicated and expensive". Correct that and watch the waiting list evaporate.

Your attempt to suggest that there are a lot of children that are unwanted is bogus - the legal hoops good hearted, well meaning people have to go through in order to adopt a child is criminal, in my view.

Infants through private agencies are expensive to adopt but adopting a special needs child through the CPS is relatively inexpensive.

 

[Fisher]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

I don't know why that happened the family you knew.
My husbands cousin and his wife cared for many foster children over the years.
In fact they were in the process of adopting one of the foster girls and her sister when my husbands cousin was kidnapped and killed by two teens who were robbing him.

My cousin in law was still able to adopt the two girls and continued to care for foster children for several years after that.

they were told as a matter of policy they consider it in the best interest of the child not to be in the home of the parents wishing to adopt them during the process. I assume it was a fear they would skip town with the kid if the adoption fell through. IDK.

 

[SassySmartie]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

I don't know why that happened the family you knew.
My husbands cousin and his wife cared for many foster children over the years.
In fact they were in the process of adopting one of the foster girls and her sister when my husbands cousin was kidnapped and killed by two teens who were robbing him.

My cousin in law was still able to adopt the two girls and continued to care for foster children for several years after that.

Similarly, my cousin just adopted her daughter last year [my cousin is a single woman]. She adopted her cousin's infant daughter that she fostered for 2 years while she waited for the woman to get off of drugs and straighten up. The woman did not, she also threatened to kill my cousin and drug her through some legal battles before the state actually took her rights away permanently. It took my cousin about 6-8 months after the permanent termination of parental rights to be awarded full custody and adoption of her daughter. The daughter has lived with her the entire time.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

Firstly, I would say that I condemn any parent who abandoned any child as described by you above. To abandon such a child, in my view, is far more troubling to me than to have an abortion.

Secondly, if you can prove to me that there are no people willing to adopt such children and that there is little or no cost to the adoptive family to take on these challenging children, then I will believe that these children are simply unwanted and that is criminal.

I can just as easily provide you anecdotal examples of what I'm referring to:

Here's one - Couple adopt seven siblings after eight-year journey - USATODAY.com This couple adopted seven siblings but it took them eight years - EIGHT YEARS - to complete the journey.

Here's another - Scott And Lauren Sterling, Missouri Couple, Adopt Five Orphaned Peruvian Siblings Who Sent Email Plea (PHOTOS) This couple adopted a family of five Peruvian orphans - only took them a year and $85,000 to get them out of Peru and into their family - here, or in the US, many more years and likely $hundreds of thousands more in costs and legal fees.

Gay couples are crying out for the opportunity to adopt a child or children, but there's lots standing in their way.

Are there children that will never be adopted, no matter how easy it is - yes, of course - but to suggest that the system couldn't be made easier and less costly is nonsense.

John, no disrespect, but your argument isn't connecting with my experience. And I've not suggested that the system couldn't be made easier or less costly. I've never addressed that part because the children in Sykes OP...the website...isn't about easier access or money. It's about people not wanting damaged children.

 

[SassySmartie]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

Well, there's a likely chance we've met...and you couldn't be more correct. I've been around a few RTCs. As you well know, residential treatment for ED kids...in no way meets their needs, because most aren't even properly or fully diagnosed, therefore not receiving the types of effective treatments that they need.

Possibly, though nearly half of that time was spent in San Diego, CA. You're welcome to PM me sometime to see though.

 

[SassySmartie]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

they were told as a matter of policy they consider it in the best interest of the child not to be in the home of the parents wishing to adopt them during the process. I assume it was a fear they would skip town with the kid if the adoption fell through. IDK.

Mind if I ask what state this occurred in?

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

Did you bother to read your own sources? The first story with the 7 kids took years because the couple had financial problems and couldn't afford to care for all of them:



The other is an international adoption, the kids are from Peru. Try again.

Agreed that there are far to many obstacles for gay couples to adopt, many of the same people who are anti-choice are also against gays adopting.

This issue has zero to do with "choice". I'm personally pro-choice but against lifestyle abortions. The issue for me is the difficulty the average person has in trying to adopt a child - most don't even try because it is virtually impossible to accomplish in a timely and inexpensive way. Those are facts.

I pointed out the kids from Peru as an example that it is easier and less costly to adopt from abroad than it is to try at home and to show that there are people willing and able to adopt siblings, instant families, if they don't have roadblocks put up against them.

Want a suggestion? How about the government agencies that handle foster care and adoption procedures footing the legal bills for adoptions and any administrative costs for processing the paperwork etc.? After all, the adoptive family is taking a financial burden off the government's hands.

 

[minnie616]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

they were told as a matter of policy they consider it in the best interest of the child not to be in the home of the parents wishing to adopt them during the process. I assume it was a fear they would skip town with the kid if the adoption fell through. IDK.

I don't understand the reasoning either.
I know my cousin in law had foster care the whole time during the adoption process.
They did have to get permission when they took her out of state for an Easter vacation.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

John, no disrespect, but your argument isn't connecting with my experience. And I've not suggested that the system couldn't be made easier or less costly. I've never addressed that part because the children in Sykes OP...the website...isn't about easier access or money. It's about people not wanting damaged children.

That's fair enough - but I find it hard to believe there are 130,000 "damaged" children that aren't wanted. There's something wrong with the system.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: 130,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US

That's fair enough - but I find it hard to believe there are 130,000 "damaged" children that aren't wanted. There's something wrong with the system.

It's really not the system, John. It's people. 130,000 damaged kids across the US...believe me, it more than that. Children with special needs (aka damaged children) are extremely hard to place because they are way more expensive and labor intensive to take care of...and many must be cared for way beyond childhood years... than the time and money it takes to adopt them.

It's sad, very sad....disturbing actually.