13 year old girl recovered after 3 months of confinement by her parents murderer

[Hawkeye10]

And you don't get to run the victim's life. Since I'm convinced that your posts have been extraordinarily vulgar and repulsive for no other reason than to shock, instill revulsion, and get a reaction, I'm pretty much done here.

Your thin ability to deal with any heresy most especially revulsion directed towards this Victim Culture which has so harmed us is well know to me.

Try to refrain from tripping on your way out.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I forgot, I'm someone who doesn't need to know every detail of another's time in hell, but I've experienced a bit more than what a couch feels like as I get stoned. I can see where some 'never done a damn thing' folks need to live off the trials and tribulations of others...

I'm given to understand some very sick people get off on studying the gruesome details of such incidents... eace

I am not in the mood for yet another "You dont agree with me therefor you suck!" today.

There are limits to my slumming it alacrity.

 

[Lursa]

Got to wonder about some chest thumpers... :roll:

How many planned executions have been stopped by the target having a 454 'somewhere' handy? Does the 'from my cold dead hands' crowd have a hand cannon in every room???

Wonder how many planned executions were halted by the target compared to kids murdering kids with daddy's pistol?

Wonder how many weapons end up in the hands of criminals because they visited the house while the NRA T-shirt clad chest thumper was out and about but the firearm was still easily accessible???

Wonder how the father felt when he learns his pistol killed his own son as the children played with it, or how he felt when the pistol used to murder a cop came from his house, taken during a burglary???? eace

How often do the guns they carry save cops and soldiers from ambushes? They dont. Nothing protects people from the element of surprise.

That's the advantage of the predator, they pick the time and place.

Guns arent magic. OTOH, in my house, we have plans and preparation. The mother wouldnt have been hiding with the girl in the bathroom unarmed. She would have retrieved a firearm first.

 

[Lursa]

With that same argument then, as free person, what happens to them (the victim) is their business (if they so decide) and they get to decide whether it is your business or not and you must respect that. Or is that a big 'ol double standard I see?

:lamo :lamo

Good one!

 

[Lursa]

This story really hits home for me.

Maybe it hits so hard because I have an 11 year old daughter who is my only child. Or maybe it is because the crime happened in an area that I am very familiar with because I spent extensive time there when I was a kid. Or maybe it is because, at least 20 times, I have driven past, within ten miles, of the place where Jayme was held captive, completely oblivious that she was there.

It's probably a combination of "all of the above".

When I read the facts of this case, all I can think about is "Silence of the Lambs" and the scene where Jamie Gumm says... "It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again". This little girl lived that horror for 88 days. She lived that horror for 88 days AFTER watching both of her parents get blown away right in front of her. Her mother got shot in the head with a shotgun while she was standing right next to her.

God bless you, Jayme Closs.

I hope this young lady is able to find comfort and security in your community with more people like you. With that kind of support, she will find her way thru this.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I hope this young lady is able to find comfort and security in your community with more people like you. With that kind of support, she will find her way thru this.

He said that he was in the area as a kid maybe 20 times..... he is not of the community...is this low quality following along normal with you?

 

[Lursa]

He said that he was in the area as a kid maybe 20 times..... he is not of the community...is this low quality following along normal with you?

Heh heh heh...really feeling the burn in the thread eh?

This is a cheap shot even for you...you used to be better! :lamo

Or maybe it is because, at least 20 times, I have driven past, within ten miles, of the place where Jayme was held captive,

*snicker* how much driving does a kid do....exactly what is the driving age there? Seems like he's still in the area, since he's driven by the place she was being held that many times. Better up your game. Your "low quality following along" is lagging badly. :lol:

 

[Hawkeye10]

Heh heh heh...really feeling the burn in the thread eh?

This is a cheap shot even for you...you used to be better! :lamo



*snicker* how much driving does a kid do....exactly what is the driving age there? Seems like he's still in the area, since he's driven by the place she was being held that many times. Better up your game. Your "low quality following along" is lagging badly. :lol:

My following along is fine, it is yours that is shoddy.

 

[Lursa]

My following along is fine, it is yours that is shoddy.

Yeah, so fine that you misread or misunderstood his reply? Seems pretty shoddy to me.

Ah the hypocrites....you used to be better!

 

[notquiteright]

I am not in the mood for yet another "You dont agree with me therefor you suck!" today. There are limits to my slumming it alacrity.

You must get moody a lot, many seem to hold that opinion of you...course like the old saying points out- if a few dozen people say you don't look so good, perhaps you should see a doctor...

You seem to have many limits, except in slumming or purulent curiosity…. good night.... eace

 

[tres borrachos]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/jayme-cl...seeing-her-get-on-a-school-bus-complaint-says



This is just heartbreaking. I just hope that there will come a day when this girl can feel somewhat "normal" again.

Sadly, I doubt she will ever be normal again. I just hope they can help her get through the terrible nightmares and agony of her imprisonment, and she can lead as normal a life as possible. Poor girl.

 

[OldFatGuy]

It affects me in a conflicting way.



On the one hand, some things like this make me hope that maybe I'm wrong about rejecting religious mythology - specifically a hell - because of some acts that strike me as worthy of punishment in a second life. There are many "but"(s). Elsewhere, I said, on the general subject of whether the bible teaches eternal torment for baddies, post #481. Thread is closed for mod review. Not sure if I can quote anything from it. But I think I can cite it:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...rment-hell-unbelievers-49.html#post1069369782

(RE: the incompatibility of the concept of a "good" God and the existence of eternal torture - torture beyond the end of the concept of "ends", time, existence, etc - for any mortal acts, even the very most evil in history).



On the other hand, some people commit such heinous crimes that I start hoping I'm wrong. I start hoping that the bill comes due, a bill no civilized society can impose on a convicted criminal without reducing itself to his or her level.




So I'll cut the difference: may he burn in hell for a term of years, Earth time.

First, I apologize for not responding sooner but I've been occupied with a family problem that is now resolved.

I think you bring an interesting perspective to the discussion. Examination of religious ethos in response to evil occupies almost all religions, not just the biblical eternal torment. Judaism speaks of the death of the soul, a concept very different from Christian visions of heaven and hell, based on an almost reincarnation concept whereby the soul is recycled for another life. Final judgment for surviving souls becoming one with god, excluding, obviously, dead souls from the final reward. The north religions, punishment in the form of eternal wandering in a frigid wasteland of dark and terror. Hindi and Buddhism, in their own ways, a return as the lowest possible creatures until good prevails through the cycles of life and they can reach nirvana, again a oneness with god. Interestingly, the definitions of good and evil somewhat vary, but all decry the murder of the innocent, a commonality.

Ironically many religions speak of heroes born from rape. Hercules, Achilles and other Greek and Roman heroes are the result of raped women by gods. Odin the wanderer was infamous in the nordic religions for his seduction and rape of human women, leaving future heroes and leaders in his wake. A great excuse for a woman who got pregnant while her husband was traveling elsewhere or was not married.

Like you, I am not a religious man, but I am fascinated by the religious concepts of good and evil, reward and punishment. I am also as perplexed as you about appropriate response from society as a whole, without sinking to the same depths of depravation. I have no answers. However, I am convinced evil exists without the concepts of religious paradigms. Incidents like this tragedy for this girl, bring all of this to our attention, a step away from our more mundane lives. I am distinctly bothered that the lurid aspects allow the media to create a feeding frenzy for those who would act similarly and for now live vicariously, bringing them to act in imitation. I am also angered that the media itself feeds on these horrid events and so many are titilated.

There is so much about the evil in human nature I do not understand and cannot accept. It is said sins are for god to judge, but like most of us I do sit in judgment of those who commit these crimes against humanity. To rape and murder even one person is a crime against all humanity. To contribute to the rapes and murders by doing nothing is also a crime against humanity. But what do we do, and what can we do to prevent them from occurring?

 

[VanceMack]

He was a perfectly sane rational militia member carrying his legal gun lawfully. Until he wasn't, and he murdered two people with it.

Actually, he sounds like Lance Hart, your typically idiot leftist subject from the UK that flipped out and killed his wife and daughter with a shotgun a few years back.

 

[Lursa]

Sadly, I doubt she will ever be normal again. I just hope they can help her get through the terrible nightmares and agony of her imprisonment, and she can lead as normal a life as possible. Poor girl.

Elizabeth Smart seems to have gotten her life back and overcome a good bit of her trauma. She has written of her experience and maybe this will give this young woman hope and comfort as well.

 

[tres borrachos]

Elizabeth Smart seems to have gotten her life back and overcome a good bit of her trauma. She has written of her experience and maybe this will give this young woman hope and comfort as well.

There are some similarities to the Smart case, obviously. But part of Smart's recovery was the fact that she went back to the loving arms of her very supportive, strong and wonderful family. This poor girl lost her family as part of the crime. Her recovery will be so very much harder because of it.

I hope she gets all of the help she needs. I simply can't imagine what she went through and the damage it may have done.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Victims should never get to decide for us what we need to know....what we get to know.

This is Rank Victim Culture Corruption.

The 4th Estate claims the people have a right to know, but that is not true. The people may want to know, but that doesn't mean they will ever know. Point in case, do you want the names of pedophile victims published? Should the names of rape victims be published?

Why should you or anyone else know the specifics of what this girl suffered while in the hands of her tormentor? Where do you get the audacity to demand the lurid details of her suffering? Is it not more than enough that her name was published? She has to live with this the rest of her life. Yet you demand she be reminded by open knowledge of her suffering and of course the soon to be on TV movie about all that she has gone through. The tell all in every tabloid journalistic and entertainment medium for the mob, and you are now represent the mobs of Rome. The decision is not yours to make.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The 4th Estate claims the people have a right to know, but that is not true. The people may want to know, but that doesn't mean they will ever know. Point in case, do you want the names of pedophile victims published? Should the names of rape victims be published?

Why should you or anyone else know the specifics of what this girl suffered while in the hands of her tormentor? Where do you get the audacity to demand the lurid details of her suffering? Is it not more than enough that her name was published? She has to live with this the rest of her life. Yet you demand she be reminded by open knowledge of her suffering and of course the soon to be on TV movie about all that she has gone through. The tell all in every tabloid journalistic and entertainment medium for the mob, and you are now represent the mobs of Rome. The decision is not yours to make.

Victims do not heal by trying to forget and ignore, so your entire premise is deeply flawed. You act like she is going to be ashamed of what happened or that other people know, which is very disappointing coming from you, I would have expected you to know better.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The 4th Estate claims the people have a right to know, but that is not true. The people may want to know, but that doesn't mean they will ever know. Point in case, do you want the names of pedophile victims published? Should the names of rape victims be published?

Why should you or anyone else know the specifics of what this girl suffered while in the hands of her tormentor? Where do you get the audacity to demand the lurid details of her suffering? Is it not more than enough that her name was published? She has to live with this the rest of her life. Yet you demand she be reminded by open knowledge of her suffering and of course the soon to be on TV movie about all that she has gone through. The tell all in every tabloid journalistic and entertainment medium for the mob, and you are now represent the mobs of Rome. The decision is not yours to make.

My argument is on the question of why we as citizens must be informed on the goings on in this society and as well what our justice system is up to and why....If you desire to pursue this with me you need to lose all of the accusatory "you" 's......this is not about me, and know that if you start a conversation with the statement that I suck i am not likely going to be interested in talking to you, out of respect for myself ....such as it is.....and the desire to not waste time.


This goes for everyone else who is in a snit about what I think as well.

 

[OldFatGuy]

My argument is on the question of why we as citizens must be informed on the goings on in this society and as well what our justice system is up to and why....If you desire to pursue this with me you need to lose all of the accusatory "you" 's......this is not about me, and know that if you start a conversation with the statement that I suck i am not likely going to be interested in talking to you, out of respect for myself ....such as it is.....and the desire to not waste time.


This goes for everyone else who is in a snit about what I think as well.

None of this is about you. It is your declaration as to the rights of the public above the rights of victims that is in error. And no one said you suck. Step back from your emotions and reread what was directed at you. It wasn't accusatory, it was an honest negation of what you had to say about this particular aspect of a hideous crime.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Victims do not heal by trying to forget and ignore, so your entire premise is deeply flawed. You act like she is going to be ashamed of what happened or that other people know, which is very disappointing coming from you, I would have expected you to know better.

Victims of violence never heal, they merely enjoy a dulling of the pain as time passes. It is not a question of what either you or I believe she will feel when she is confronted with reminders of this experience in the future, rather it is her right to absent herself from any reminders of the trauma as she moves on with her life. The choice is hers, not yours, not mine, not the public's.

 

[Hawkeye10]

None of this is about you. It is your declaration as to the rights of the public above the rights of victims that is in error. And no one said you suck. Step back from your emotions and reread what was directed at you. It wasn't accusatory, it was an honest negation of what you had to say about this particular aspect of a hideous crime.

Your assertion that I negate victims or argue towards the harm of victims is a damn lie.

Secondly, if you tend to pursue civility then you ask for an argument, then you listen with an open mind to that argument, then you consider that argument with an open mind and as well with as much wisdom as you can bring to bear.....THEN you decide if I am wrong or not.

You have ****ed it all up.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Your assertion that I negate victims or argue towards the harm of victims is a damn lie.

Secondly, if you tend to pursue civility then you ask for an argument, then you listen with an open mind to that argument, then you consider that argument with an open mind and as well with as much wisdom as you can bring to bear.....THEN you decide if I am wrong or not.

You have ****ed it all up.

Read what you wrote and posted. If your intent was otherwise you need to clarify your thoughts with the emotive personalization.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Read what you wrote and posted. If your intent was otherwise you need to clarify your thoughts with the emotive personalization.

What definition are we using for " emotive personalization"?

Also, I dont work for you however if you desire a conversation with me you are now aware of my terms.

 

[OldFatGuy]

What definition are we using for " emotive personalization"?

Also, I dont work for you however if you desire a conversation with me you are now aware of my terms.

It is what it is. Review your posts and determine why I say such applies. It isn't about you. None of it is about you. And keep in mind I have not treated you with disrespect.