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100+yrs of DEMS&REPS! Time to change!!

NoMoreDems-Reps

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Maybe they are just perfecting ways of:
1) Screwing over Americans and
2) keeping Americans asking (Fighting)
for more REP-DEM rule?

Cause they sure as hell aren't trying to make
America a better place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

True, America is one of the best places in the
world, but America had SOOOOOO MUCH more
potential!!!!!!

But thanks to the REP-DEM Monopoly here we are
in the crapper!

Read the Declaration of Independence
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration.html
 

cherokee

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HELL YES!
We need an Independents in the white house.

I myself would love to see Norman Schwarzkopf and
Ross Pero...
 

RightinNYC

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NoMoreDems-Reps said:
Maybe they are just perfecting ways of:
1) Screwing over Americans and
2) keeping Americans asking (Fighting)
for more REP-DEM rule?

Cause they sure as hell aren't trying to make
America a better place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

True, America is one of the best places in the
world, but America had SOOOOOO MUCH more
potential!!!!!!

But thanks to the REP-DEM Monopoly here we are
in the crapper!

Read the Declaration of Independence
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration.html
Awesome idea. Now go out and get someone else elected.

PS what the hell does the DoI have to do with ANYthing?
 

NoMoreDems-Reps

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100+yrs of REPS&DEMS! Time to change!!

Maybe the REPS&DEMS are just perfecting ways of:
1) Screwing over Americans and
2) keeping Americans asking (Fighting)
for more REP-DEM rule?

Cause they sure as hell aren't trying to make
America a better place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

True, America is one of the best places in the
world, but America had SOOOOOO MUCH more
potential!!!!!!

But thanks to the REP-DEM Monopoly here we are
in the crapper!

Read the Declaration of Independence
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration.html
 

Billo_Really

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Re: 100+yrs of REPS&DEMS! Time to change!!

Originally posted by NoMoreDems-Reps
Maybe the REPS&DEMS are just perfecting ways of:
1) Screwing over Americans and
2) keeping Americans asking (Fighting)
for more REP-DEM rule?

Cause they sure as hell aren't trying to make
America a better place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

True, America is one of the best places in the
world, but America had SOOOOOO MUCH more
potential!!!!!!

But thanks to the REP-DEM Monopoly here we are
in the crapper!
This two-party system really does suck. Reps and Dems are the flip sides of the same coin. There's not that much difference between the two. They both answer to the same class of people.

Where do we go from here? That takes a well informed republic. Which is something we do not have. That's why we have so many nuts in office right now. Because our population is a bunch of idiots that watch way too much TV.

Maybe if we keep voting out imcumbants that will get their attention.
 
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This guy has posted this exact thread all over debate politics.com. Let's clean his act up.
 

ravens24

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Re: 100+yrs of REPS&DEMS! Time to change!!

interesting..hmmmm. I need to think about that more. But thats a great idea..having more parties to serve the needs of more people. It's hard to get started unless some big name starts it. Hmm. interesting guys. cool
 

Kelzie

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Re: 100+yrs of REPS&DEMS! Time to change!!

ravens24 said:
interesting..hmmmm. I need to think about that more. But thats a great idea..having more parties to serve the needs of more people. It's hard to get started unless some big name starts it. Hmm. interesting guys. cool
It's not hard to get started. It's impossible to get started in a plurality system regardless of who's selling it. We'd need to completely redo our governmental organization to proportional representation at the very least. It's extremely unlikely that will happen, barring some earth shattering event. Not saying that I wouldn't like it, only that we're stuck with it.
 

LeftyHenry

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Re: 100+yrs of REPS&DEMS! Time to change!!

Yeah the thing is that dems & reps have such a big advantage over third parties not only because they have lots of funds, but also because the dems represent the left in general, and the repubs represent the right on the political spectrum, and people seem to be fine voting on that broad basis.
 

GarzaUK

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Re: 100+yrs of REPS&DEMS! Time to change!!

The reason why American politics is so partisan is because of the two party system. I would have to think that their is quite a few people out there that feel that the Dems or Reps totally represent their views. Letting more parties have a share of power will make America more democratic. Democracy is about choice and there isn't much choice in America.

If I was American I wouldn't bother voting IMHO.
 

NoMoreDems-Reps

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Re: 100+yrs of REPS&DEMS! Time to change!!

If we don't vote out the DEMS&REPS soon I think it's going to became
a competition of who can screw over the American people the most
and still get elected!

That might be a sad sinical thought but just look at where America is headed.

Untill Americans take the effort to stand agianst the DEMS&REPS, the
DEMS&REPS will continue doing what they do best.

After ~110 years of REP&DEM rule we can conclude one of two things
1) The DEMS&REPS has got the U.S.A running like a Swiss Watch and
Should be kept in power!

Or

2) They are corrupt and are unfit to govern the greatest Country in the world!
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by KCConservative:
This guy has posted this exact thread all over debate politics.com. Let's clean his act up.
All you do is complain about the post. Is this because you have absolutely nothing to bring to the table?

I thought so.
 

PerryLogan

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If you're going to talk about Democrats, it might be nice to know something about them.

Here are a few things the Democrats have done for you:

Democrats gave us Social Security (the most successful government program ever)
Democrats gave us civil rights legislation
Democrats gave us Medicare
Democrats gave us seatbelts & airbags
Democrats gave us public broadcasting
Democrats gave us the Freedom of Information Act
Democrats gave us environmental laws
Democrats gave us the Americans with Disabilities Act
Democrats gave us workplace safety laws
Democrats gave us food safety laws
Democrats gave us food labeling laws
Democrats gave us the GI Bill
Democrats gave us low-income housing
Democrats gave us the Tennessee Valley Project
Democrats gave us the Peace Corps
Democrats gave us the longest period of economic expansion in history (under Bill Clinton)
Democrats gave us the lowest infant mortality rate in history. (It's going up now, of course)


& a few more:

Democrats gave us consumer protection laws
Democrats gave us improved air quality
Democrats gave us the internet
Democrats gave us the Center for Disease Control & Prevention (Republicans hate this kind of stuff; they're very mean)
Democrats gave us Affirmative Action (which 64% of Americans favor. Don't listen to the right-wing disinformation machine: affirmative action has helped the income, promotion and labor force participation rates of both women and minorities. That's why Republicans hate it. If it hadn't worked, they wouldn't mind.)
Democrats promote space exploration
Democrats gave us the Family & Medical Leave Act
Democrats gave us the Consumer Product Safety Commission
Democrats cleaned up the Great Lakes (did so!)
Democrats protect endangered species
Democrats got a ban on CFC's, DDT, PCB's, & leaded gasoline (plus who knows what other toxic stuff we & our kids would still be enjoying--if Republicans had always ruled)
Democrats gave us rural electrification
Democrats got you public schooling
Democrats gave us the National Weather Service
Democrats gave us truth-in-advertising laws
Democrats gave us the Morrill Land Grant Act (this act is the reason nearly every state has a large public university)
Democrats gave us public universities (Democrats are less afraid of people getting educated than Republicans are)
Democrats promote & fund scientific research
Democrats gave us guaranteed bank deposits
Democrats helped women get the vote (the Republicans forestalled it until the 1920's; bad Republicans!)
Democrats passed child-labor laws
Democrats got us Meals on Wheels
Democrats promote scientific & technological research
Democrats promote student financial aid
Democrats promote child immunizations (which reached record levels under the Clinton Administration)
Democrats make the poverty rate go down (Check it out: the New Deal reduced America's poverty rate from over 50% to less than 20%)
Democrats lower the crime rate (it dropped for 8 successive years under Clinton--the longest continuous drop on record; what can I say?)
Democrats fought discrimination (The Republicans supported it: remember?)
Democrats help develop alternative energy sources (whereas the Republicans plan to take us down with the dinosaurs)
Democrats control immigration (better than Republicans; Bill Clinton exported more illegals than any President ever)
Democrats created special education programs, handicapped education programs, job retraining programs, etc., etc. (Republicans destroy same, capice?)
Democrats improve the educational system (whereas Republicans sell it down the river)
Democrats protect you from malignant corporations (Republicans feed you to them)


& a few more things the Democrats have done for America:

The GNP grows more under Democrats (thought you might like to know)
Democrats lowered the teen birth rate (under Clinton, to its lowest rate in 60 years)
Democrats deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union (Clinton again. Thank you, Bill!)
Democrats gave us the highest home ownership rate in American history (Clinton again)
Democrats converted the largest budget deficit in American history into the largest surplus (which GWB has incredibly turned back into the biggest deficit AGAIN!)
Democrats gave us smaller government (That's right! The Federal government grows much less under Democrats)
Democrats reduce federal spending (to the lowest level since 1966 under the last elected President)
Democrats gave us the most exports ever (under Clinton)
Democrats can get the FDA working again (do not take any drugs approved under this administration; it's that bad)
Democrats would represent most people (most people want the liberal things--environmentalism, gun control, international cooperation, less torture; Republicans, by contrast, want things that most Americans hate)
Democrats can fix this gross income-inequality thing (income equality correlates significantly with mortality rates, crime, poor educational outcomes, substance abuse, etc.)
Democrats are not so into crackpot science & crackpot stats (science backs up the Democrats; junk science backs up the Right)
Democrats will give us a health-care system (think about it; the lifespans of Canadians are now 2 years more than ours--because of their healthcare system)
The African-American poverty rates dropped to their lowest levels EVER under the last Democratic administration.
The poverty rate for single mothers reached its lowest level EVER under Clinton.
 

-Demosthenes-

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As we can see by some of the posts, there is almost no way for the US to get off it's two party system. The minority party usually has some good ideas or ideas for change or reform, but when you put them in charge they become the majority and it becomes a contest to do as little as possible so as to not offend any one :p Don't know what to tell you, maybe we could get a third party to grow and compete with the republicans and democrats. I think that this would help, but who knows.
 

RightinNYC

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PerryLogan said:
If you're going to talk about Democrats, it might be nice to know something about them.

Here are a few things the Democrats have done for you:

Democrats gave us Social Security (the most successful government program ever)
Democrats gave us civil rights legislation
Democrats gave us Medicare
Democrats gave us seatbelts & airbags
Democrats gave us public broadcasting
Democrats gave us the Freedom of Information Act
Democrats gave us environmental laws
Democrats gave us the Americans with Disabilities Act
Democrats gave us workplace safety laws
Democrats gave us food safety laws
Democrats gave us food labeling laws
Democrats gave us the GI Bill
Democrats gave us low-income housing
Democrats gave us the Tennessee Valley Project
Democrats gave us the Peace Corps
Democrats gave us the longest period of economic expansion in history (under Bill Clinton)
Democrats gave us the lowest infant mortality rate in history. (It's going up now, of course)


& a few more:

Democrats gave us consumer protection laws
Democrats gave us improved air quality
Democrats gave us the internet
Democrats gave us the Center for Disease Control & Prevention (Republicans hate this kind of stuff; they're very mean)
Democrats gave us Affirmative Action (which 64% of Americans favor. Don't listen to the right-wing disinformation machine: affirmative action has helped the income, promotion and labor force participation rates of both women and minorities. That's why Republicans hate it. If it hadn't worked, they wouldn't mind.)
Democrats promote space exploration
Democrats gave us the Family & Medical Leave Act
Democrats gave us the Consumer Product Safety Commission
Democrats cleaned up the Great Lakes (did so!)
Democrats protect endangered species
Democrats got a ban on CFC's, DDT, PCB's, & leaded gasoline (plus who knows what other toxic stuff we & our kids would still be enjoying--if Republicans had always ruled)
Democrats gave us rural electrification
Democrats got you public schooling
Democrats gave us the National Weather Service
Democrats gave us truth-in-advertising laws
Democrats gave us the Morrill Land Grant Act (this act is the reason nearly every state has a large public university)
Democrats gave us public universities (Democrats are less afraid of people getting educated than Republicans are)
Democrats promote & fund scientific research
Democrats gave us guaranteed bank deposits
Democrats helped women get the vote (the Republicans forestalled it until the 1920's; bad Republicans!)
Democrats passed child-labor laws
Democrats got us Meals on Wheels
Democrats promote scientific & technological research
Democrats promote student financial aid
Democrats promote child immunizations (which reached record levels under the Clinton Administration)
Democrats make the poverty rate go down (Check it out: the New Deal reduced America's poverty rate from over 50% to less than 20%)
Democrats lower the crime rate (it dropped for 8 successive years under Clinton--the longest continuous drop on record; what can I say?)
Democrats fought discrimination (The Republicans supported it: remember?)
Democrats help develop alternative energy sources (whereas the Republicans plan to take us down with the dinosaurs)
Democrats control immigration (better than Republicans; Bill Clinton exported more illegals than any President ever)
Democrats created special education programs, handicapped education programs, job retraining programs, etc., etc. (Republicans destroy same, capice?)
Democrats improve the educational system (whereas Republicans sell it down the river)
Democrats protect you from malignant corporations (Republicans feed you to them)


& a few more things the Democrats have done for America:

The GNP grows more under Democrats (thought you might like to know)
Democrats lowered the teen birth rate (under Clinton, to its lowest rate in 60 years)
Democrats deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union (Clinton again. Thank you, Bill!)
Democrats gave us the highest home ownership rate in American history (Clinton again)
Democrats converted the largest budget deficit in American history into the largest surplus (which GWB has incredibly turned back into the biggest deficit AGAIN!)
Democrats gave us smaller government (That's right! The Federal government grows much less under Democrats)
Democrats reduce federal spending (to the lowest level since 1966 under the last elected President)
Democrats gave us the most exports ever (under Clinton)
Democrats can get the FDA working again (do not take any drugs approved under this administration; it's that bad)
Democrats would represent most people (most people want the liberal things--environmentalism, gun control, international cooperation, less torture; Republicans, by contrast, want things that most Americans hate)
Democrats can fix this gross income-inequality thing (income equality correlates significantly with mortality rates, crime, poor educational outcomes, substance abuse, etc.)
Democrats are not so into crackpot science & crackpot stats (science backs up the Democrats; junk science backs up the Right)
Democrats will give us a health-care system (think about it; the lifespans of Canadians are now 2 years more than ours--because of their healthcare system)
The African-American poverty rates dropped to their lowest levels EVER under the last Democratic administration.
The poverty rate for single mothers reached its lowest level EVER under Clinton.
Thank god for the ability of the Democrats to cut and paste unsourced and false material from other places...
 

NoMoreDems-Reps

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RightatNYU said:
Awesome idea. Now go out and get someone else elected.

PS what the hell does the DoI have to do with ANYthing?
The D o I , Shows :
1) Our forefathers were Independents!
2) And that a GOOD Nation (of People) Should not stand for or support
a corrupt government.
 
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Billo_Really said:
All you do is complain about the post. Is this because you have absolutely nothing to bring to the table?

I thought so.
Funny stuff, billo. Actually, I remember getting a 3 day suspension for posting the exact paragraph into multiple threads, as I was unaware of the rule on such a practice. I was hoping to avoid that happening to this guy.
 

Connecticutter

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NoMoreDems-Reps said:
The D o I , Shows :
1) Our forefathers were Independents!
Actually, that didn't last very long. By the late 1790s, our fore-fathers were as partisan as can be.

I don't want to defend the policies of democrats and republicans - I think a lot is wrong with both parties. But to talk about 140 years of continuous rule is misleading.

Look at the political situation in 1900. You had McKinley and TR for the Republicans representing urban buisiness interests. Then there was WJ Bryan for the dems representing the rural populists. Democrats were smeared as the party of "Rum, Romanism, Rebellion." They also tended to be racist.

What does this have to do with today? Not much. Factions shift from party to party. Policies from Socialist, anti-drug and alcohol groups, civil rights groups have been implemented not because one party represented them but because the two parties fight over them to be part of their coalition.

I'm not defending the whole system, but I'm trying to paint a different picture than 140 years of uninterrupted rule of a single ideology, which is definately not the case.
 

-Demosthenes-

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The parties of today didn't really start until we all split into Reagan (republicans) and anti-Reagan groups (democrats) in the '80's. And they've even changed since then.
 

Indy

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This may not be ENTIRELY on topic but I always thought that it would help relieve some of the partisanship if we change the way the Executive branch is elected. I think that it would help to force our leaders to work together if we took the two candidates with the most votes during the presidetial election and made them the president and vice president. The one with the most votes being president of course. That way there would always be checks and balances even in the executive branch. What is everybody's opinion on this idea?

It may not help create a new party but it might prevent SOME not ALL of the corruption we are seeing. Or then again it might just screw everything up... don't know untill you try I guess.
 

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mnpollock said:
This may not be ENTIRELY on topic but I always thought that it would help relieve some of the partisanship if we change the way the Executive branch is elected. I think that it would help to force our leaders to work together if we took the two candidates with the most votes during the presidetial election and made them the president and vice president. The one with the most votes being president of course. That way there would always be checks and balances even in the executive branch. What is everybody's opinion on this idea?

It may not help create a new party but it might prevent SOME not ALL of the corruption we are seeing. Or then again it might just screw everything up... don't know untill you try I guess.
This is how things were done in the first few years under the constitution until the 12th ammendment. Before then, the top two vote getters would be elected president and vice president, but each elector had two votes. This system was very flawed, and if you read up on the history, you'll see why.

What if each elector had one vote (or ech individual if we get rid of the EC)?

I think we'd get a single, strong, independent candidate in presidential races. In a lopsided race (with one candidate clearly in the lead), this independent has a very good chance at winning VP. Elections would typically look like the 1992 election. That's just a guess.
 

Indy

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Oh I totally agree. We should deffinitely get rid of the EC. In this day and age there really isn't any benefit in keeping it. It was originally designed to protect the farmers and pioneers that chose to settle away from the original colonies, but as we can clearly see, there is no such demographic anymore. Even the smaller states still have representatives in the senate and the house. But the smaller states should only have as much sway as their populous deserves. 1 person, 1 vote. Plus that way we wouldnt' ever have to hear this argument about a president that lost the popular vote but won the EC.

I was confused about the way your post was worded. Are you in favor of the proposed method or against? It seemed that you were against but then came back with the benifits it would allow in letting the Independents have a fair shot at the race. Please clarify.
 

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mnpollock said:
Oh I totally agree. We should deffinitely get rid of the EC. In this day and age there really isn't any benefit in keeping it. It was originally designed to protect the farmers and pioneers that chose to settle away from the original colonies, but as we can clearly see, there is no such demographic anymore. Even the smaller states still have representatives in the senate and the house. But the smaller states should only have as much sway as their populous deserves. 1 person, 1 vote. Plus that way we wouldnt' ever have to hear this argument about a president that lost the popular vote but won the EC.

I was confused about the way your post was worded. Are you in favor of the proposed method or against? It seemed that you were against but then came back with the benifits it would allow in letting the Independents have a fair shot at the race. Please clarify.
I don't have an opinion for or against your proposal for President and Vice President yet. I'm going to wait to hear some more opinions.

The point I was trying to make was that the way we did things from 1788-1800, which is similar to what you propose, didn't work out very well with each elector having two votes.

If I am to understand you correctly, in your proposal, there would be no Electoral College and each individual would have a single vote. Then, the top two vote getters would win the presidency and vice presidency. Is that correct?
 

Indy

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Connecticutter said:
If I am to understand you correctly, in your proposal, there would be no Electoral College and each individual would have a single vote. Then, the top two vote getters would win the presidency and vice presidency. Is that correct?
Yep that's pretty much it. I don't mind the senators and Reps being voted in by district like they are now, that seems fair to me, but not the Presitent and the VP.
 
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