10 Things You Can’t Do and Still Call Yourself “Pro-Life”

[afr0byte]

On the contrary, the overwhelming majority of those who call themselves "pro-choice" are diametrically opposed to the concept of freedom of choice in a number of ways. It's a poor and misleading term; freedom of choice is chiefly an economic term, and you may note that most "pro-choice" individuals in this country are left-leaning and thus oppose economic freedom and free markets. Often they support drug laws. Often they support laws against prostitution. And so on. So they like laws that restrict freedom of choice in many cases, and they like laws to prohibit aggressive violence in most cases, it's just that they don't want laws to restrict THIS violence.

I don't like the term "pro-life" either, as it does misrepresent many people who claim it as well. HOWEVER, this blogger has exaggerated that sentiment beyond all reason, far beyond the concept of the consistent life ethic and the concept of supporting a natural human right to life.

I was talking about pro-abortion vs pro-choice in terms of abortion. This is an abortion thread.

 

[JayDubya]

I was talking about pro-abortion vs pro-choice in terms of abortion. This is an abortion thread.

Indeed it is an abortion thread in the abortion forum.

In response to what passes for logic from this cited blogger, I noted that the criticism in one item does not make sense in the context of that discussion: anti-abortion folks do not use dehumanizing language; it is the pro-abortion folks who routinely do so. This is fairly intuitive of course, because dehumanization is their goal.

 

[afr0byte]

Indeed it is an abortion thread in the abortion forum.

In response to what passes for logic from this cited blogger, I noted that the criticism in one item does not make sense in the context of that discussion: anti-abortion folks do not use dehumanizing language; it is the pro-abortion folks who routinely do so. This is fairly intuitive of course, because dehumanization is their goal.

Ok, but this has nothing to do with my comment about the use of the term pro-abortion.

 

[JayDubya]

Ok, but this has nothing to do with my comment about the use of the term pro-abortion.

This is already circular. We're not going to loop around again.

I made my note, you chose to fuss about one term I choose to use, I told you why I do so and will continue to do so. I reminded you what I was responding to, and now you're saying that had nothing to do with your early fussing, which was already noted and responded to.

 

[afr0byte]

This is already circular. We're not going to loop around again.

I made my note, you chose to fuss about one term I choose to use, I told you why I do so and will continue to do so. I reminded you what I was responding to, and now you're saying that had nothing to do with your early fussing, which was already noted and responded to.

Your first response to me doesn't make much sense though. It's irrelevant whether pro-choice people are opposed to choice in other areas. We're not talking about those other areas. The point is they're for a woman's choice to control her own body in the case of abortion. You're deliberately misrepresenting their position.

 

[JayDubya]

It's irrelevant whether pro-choice people are opposed to choice in other areas. We're not talking about those other areas.

It is not irrelevant if the overwhelming majority of people who say they are "pro-choice" are in actuality opposed to freedom of choice, as it makes clear that the title is a misnomer.

 

[afr0byte]

It is not irrelevant if the overwhelming majority of people who say they are "pro-choice" are in actuality opposed to freedom of choice, as it makes clear that the title is a misnomer.

OK, but again, I wasn't talking about the OP, I was talking about your use of the term pro-abortion.

 

[Brooks]

In my experience, most prochoice folks I know are anti-abortion - they would never chose it for themselves, but would not presume to get between a woman and her physician.

That's the worst position of all.
If one is pro-choice because they think all that's inside a woman in the 8th month is a bloody tissue mass then I can see why the idea of abortion doesn't bother them.

HOWEVER, if one believes that they would never do it themselves then they must believe there's something wrong about it. It must be a life in some form. There's some reason they feel it's more than just an unviable parasite.
These people admittedly are putting their politics before their own morality. Openly.
It's cowardly.

 

[Brooks]

There may be many inconsistencies in the beliefs of one who calls himself pro-life.
But if one is truly pro-choice, they should be out there advocating for adoption, international adoption (such as the recent issue with Putin), foster care, and even support some aspects of the pro-life side.
I don't see pro-choice rallies in support of adoption facilities, only abortion facilities.

I think an earlier post nailed it - Pro-life really means anti-abortion and pro-choice really means pro-abortion (don't nit-pick my saying pro-abortion, you know what I mean).

 

[Brooks]

1. You cannot support, advocate for, or participate in war
Conscientious objectors can. Also, there is such thing as a just war. Even the church believes this and I'm surprised this writer wasn't aware of it.
2. You cannot support the death penalty
True
3. You cannot support unrestricted gun rights
Then philosophically speaking a pro-lifer couldn't support driving, states without helmet laws or any risky behavior.
Stupid.
4. You cannot use dehumanizing language
Does not merit response.
5. You cannot oppose healthcare for all
Possibly, but don't confuse "healthcare for all" with the bloated cheeseburger the current administration is forcefeeding us.
6. You cannot hold anti-immigrant sentiments or support oppressive immigration policies
7. You cannot oppose gender equality
8. You cannot advocate, support, or passively tolerate economic policies which oppress the poor, minorities, or any other marginalized group.
9. You cannot oppose a livable, minimum wage.
Now he's just being an ass.
10. You cannot support unrestricted, elective abortions, after the age of viability.
This is the deceptively most difficult one for pro-lifers. You have to be extreme to not allow it for rape, incest or life of the mother. Most pro-lifers swallow the political pill and acquiesce to those three things, but it is an inconsistency.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Only when I was a kid visiting my mom's family in Kentucky. Fried.

I don't eat it now, but I will say it was a heck of a lot better than some of the meats my mom made us eat when I was a kid! I still gag at the thought of meat, macaroni & cheese meat sandwiches. (let's just say the cat down the road was well fed lol)

 

[Scrabaholic]

That's the worst position of all.
If one is pro-choice because they think all that's inside a woman in the 8th month is a bloody tissue mass then I can see why the idea of abortion doesn't bother them.

HOWEVER, if one believes that they would never do it themselves then they must believe there's something wrong about it. It must be a life in some form. There's some reason they feel it's more than just an unviable parasite.
These people admittedly are putting their politics before their own morality. Openly.
It's cowardly.

Wrong. Some people don't believe in forcing their opinions on others. For example, I abhor smoking yet I feel it is an individual's right to partake in that activity. That does not make me cowardly in the least.

BTW, there are many pro-choicers who don't think the zef is a "bloody tissue mass" or "unviable parasite", that doesn't make them a coward either. smh

 

[Brooks]

Wrong. Some people don't believe in forcing their opinions on others. For example, I abhor smoking yet I feel it is an individual's right to partake in that activity. That does not make me cowardly in the least.
BTW, there are many pro-choicers who don't think the zef is a "bloody tissue mass" or "unviable parasite", that doesn't make them a coward either. smh

You're falling just short of explaining your position clearly.
If someone says that they could never have an abortion themselves, what are the possible reasons they would feel this way?

 

[Ikari]

10 Things You Can't Do and Still Call Yourself "Pro-Life" | Formerly Fundie: Insights, Hopes and Laments on American Christianity and Culture

1. You cannot support, advocate for, or participate in war
2. You cannot support the death penalty
3. You cannot support unrestricted gun rights
4. You cannot use dehumanizing language
5. You cannot oppose healthcare for all
6. You cannot hold anti-immigrant sentiments or support oppressive immigration policies
7. You cannot oppose gender equality
8. You cannot advocate, support, or passively tolerate economic policies which oppress the poor, minorities, or any other marginalized group.
9. You cannot oppose a livable, minimum wage.
10. You cannot support unrestricted, elective abortions, after the age of viability.

---

Excellent article, in my estimation. I hope we can actually discuss the points contained within.

Does that mean that to be pro-choice, you must endorse all choice?

 

[Sykes]

Does that mean that to be pro-choice, you must endorse all choice?

To be pro-choice means you support the woman's right to choose, and understand she has reasons for reaching whatever decision she makes.

Which are likely nobody's business. And you honor that.

Obviously, millions of women have abortions, and their reasons are varied. And PERSONAL.

 

[FederalRepublic]

10 Things You Can't Do and Still Call Yourself "Pro-Life" | Formerly Fundie: Insights, Hopes and Laments on American Christianity and Culture

1. You cannot support, advocate for, or participate in war
2. You cannot support the death penalty
3. You cannot support unrestricted gun rights
4. You cannot use dehumanizing language
5. You cannot oppose healthcare for all
6. You cannot hold anti-immigrant sentiments or support oppressive immigration policies
7. You cannot oppose gender equality
8. You cannot advocate, support, or passively tolerate economic policies which oppress the poor, minorities, or any other marginalized group.
9. You cannot oppose a livable, minimum wage.
10. You cannot support unrestricted, elective abortions, after the age of viability.

---

Excellent article, in my estimation. I hope we can actually discuss the points contained within.

The person who wrote this article has their head in the clouds. A livable minimum wage is an economic policy that oppresses the poor, so where do we go from there for discussion?

 

[Ikari]

To be pro-choice means you support the woman's right to choose, and understand she has reasons for reaching whatever decision she makes.

Which are likely nobody's business. And you honor that.

Obviously, millions of women have abortions, and their reasons are varied. And PERSONAL.

Pro-choice means pro-choice. Will you give me the choice to own a fully automatic weapon? If not, you're not pro-choice.

 

[Removable Mind]

Pro-choice means pro-choice. Will you give me the choice to own a fully automatic weapon? If not, you're not pro-choice.

Ikari...man...that's really not relevant to this topic. Sorry, but this isn't a congruent argument.

Now if one can figure out a way to conceive automatic weapon in a woman's body...then incubate it in a her uterus. Then you have a gig.

 

[Ikari]

Ikari...man...that's really not relevant to this topic. Sorry, but this isn't a congruent argument.

Now if one can figure out a way to conceive automatic weapon in a woman's body...then incubate it in a her uterus. Then you have a gig.

It's rather relevant in fact. Pro-life and pro-choice are propaganda terms that apply specifically to the abortion debate. But if you're going to extend "pro-life" to meaning pro-life absolutely, then you can likewise extend pro-choice to meaning pro-choice absolutely.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

 

[Removable Mind]

It's rather relevant in fact. Pro-life and pro-choice are propaganda terms that apply specifically to the abortion debate. But if you're going to extend "pro-life" to meaning pro-life absolutely, then you can likewise extend pro-choice to meaning pro-choice absolutely.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

If you say so, Ikari....if it's that important to try and emesh automatic weapons in with abortion...fire away. Sorry for my comment. It was inappropriate....

 

[AGENT J]

admitting i havent read the article yet but im going to, no matter what it says NOBODY gets to factually decided whether another is pro-life or pro-choice. Its asinine.

If you call your self something and its a subjective thing thats what you are period. I could have a different opinion but its meaningless.

now ill go read.

8 pages later and after reading the link im still sticking with my original post

 

[Scrabaholic]

You're falling just short of explaining your position clearly.
If someone says that they could never have an abortion themselves, what are the possible reasons they would feel this way?

I explained it just fine.

 

[Peter King]

10 Things You Can't Do and Still Call Yourself "Pro-Life" | Formerly Fundie: Insights, Hopes and Laments on American Christianity and Culture

1. You cannot support, advocate for, or participate in war
2. You cannot support the death penalty
3. You cannot support unrestricted gun rights
4. You cannot use dehumanizing language
5. You cannot oppose healthcare for all
6. You cannot hold anti-immigrant sentiments or support oppressive immigration policies
7. You cannot oppose gender equality
8. You cannot advocate, support, or passively tolerate economic policies which oppress the poor, minorities, or any other marginalized group.
9. You cannot oppose a livable, minimum wage.
10. You cannot support unrestricted, elective abortions, after the age of viability.

---

Excellent article, in my estimation. I hope we can actually discuss the points contained within.

Ooh, I must have been mistaken, I thought these are the basic principles any republican primary candidate, who wants to stand any change at all of winning the nomination, has to sign on to.

My mistake

 

[Ikari]

If you say so, Ikari....if it's that important to try and emesh automatic weapons in with abortion...fire away. Sorry for my comment. It was inappropriate....

This thread wasn't about abortion, it's an ongoing propaganda war in which one side tries to paint the other side as illogical while trying to avoid having the same assessment which is completely valid in reverse from being applied to their side.

 

[Removable Mind]

This thread wasn't about abortion, it's an ongoing propaganda war in which one side tries to paint the other side as illogical while trying to avoid having the same assessment which is completely valid in reverse from being applied to their side.

Okay...... :shrug: