10-1 odds that the mine explosion is Bush's fault by the end of the week.

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

No dice. They're looking for reform, and the fact that Bush has loaded the safety angencies with people that likely have financial conflicts-of-interest is a legitimate point. No one is blaming this specific incident on Bush, they're looking for ways to fix it so it doesn't happen in the future - Bush's appointees are open to criticism.

Bullshit that's exactly what they're doing you get an F for reading comprehension. They're saying that it's the Bush administrations fault that since he didn't have good enough oversight on the owners of the mine that it's his fault.

 

[Engimo]

Bullshit that's exactly what they're doing you get an F for reading comprehension.

Really? Well, point out where it says that, then. Saying someone is very indirectly responsible for something is entirely different than claiming that it is their fault.

 

[Deegan]

It's already happened, and Trajan knows this.

He has worked hard to avoid lawsuits, lawsuits that will make mining more expensive, and energy will follow. Now you have middle class Americans who can't afford their energy bill, and end up freezing in their homes, along with their children. No one thinks about these things, they only think "OMG, you're protecting the rich, you're evil, you're bought and paid for" It really gets old, is it not about time we used common sense? The government has made mining more safe then it is in any other country in the world, but nothing is good enough for these liberals, not until a child freezes to death in his or her own bed!:roll:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Really? Well, point out where it says that, then. Saying someone is very indirectly responsible for something is entirely different than claiming that it is their fault.

Seriously can't you understand plain Enlgish this is how the article starts you need to read the full press release to understand it I just cut out the relevant parts:

WASHINGTON, DC -- In response to the devastating mine incident in West Virginia that has killed 12 mine workers and injured one other, Representatives George Miller (D-CA) and Major Owens (D-NY) today called for immediate Congressional hearings into mine safety. Miller said the hearings are critical to getting Congress the information it needs to determine what went wrong in West Virginia and to act to prevent another tragedy.

And this is where they infer that it was Bush's fault:

Since Mr. Lauriski resigned his position in November 2004, the agency has been operating under an acting administrator. The President did not nominate a replacement for Mr. Lauriski until September 2005. That replacement has yet to take his seat.

With mining company officials at the helm of MSHA, the agency’s focus has clearly shifted away from protecting miners. A 2005 report by the AFL-CIO found that “at MSHA, 17 standards to improve safety and health for miners have been withdrawn since President Bush took office, including the Air Quality, Chemical Substances and Respiratory standards…For the most part at MSHA, those standards that have been proposed during the Bush Administration favor industry by moving to roll back existing protections. There are no pending standards to protect miners from hazards on their job.”

 

[Engimo]

It's already happened, and Trajan knows this.

He has worked hard to avoid lawsuits, lawsuits that will make mining more expensive, and energy will follow. Now you have middle class Americans who can't afford their energy bill, and end up freezing in their homes, along with their children. No one thinks about these things, they only think "OMG, you're protecting the rich, you're evil, you're bought and paid for" It really gets old, is it not about time we used common sense? The government has made mining more safe then it is in any other country in the world, but nothing is good enough for these liberals, not until a child freezes to death in his or her own bed!:roll:

What? So you'd prefer that there be no accountability for companies that fail to follow safety regulations? That's what lawsuits are for, you know, so people can get reparations.

 

[Engimo]

Seriously can't you understand plain Enlgish:

Since Mr. Lauriski resigned his position in November 2004, the agency has been operating under an acting administrator. The President did not nominate a replacement for Mr. Lauriski until September 2005. That replacement has yet to take his seat.

With mining company officials at the helm of MSHA, the agency’s focus has clearly shifted away from protecting miners. A 2005 report by the AFL-CIO found that “at MSHA, 17 standards to improve safety and health for miners have been withdrawn since President Bush took office, including the Air Quality, Chemical Substances and Respiratory standards…For the most part at MSHA, those standards that have been proposed during the Bush Administration favor industry by moving to roll back existing protections. There are no pending standards to protect miners from hazards on their job.”

Wow, hey, let's be needlessly inflammatory and insult someone's reading comprehension when it is clearly not flawed. That'll be fun!

The fact that the standards favor the industry does not mean that anyone is blaming Bush for the mine explosion, as you seem to think. If it is a true statement that the standards have been changed to be more lenient, this is something that is of concern to reformers, but you cannot make the leap of logic that they are blaming Bush - it's nonsensical and does not come from what they are saying.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Wow, hey, let's be needlessly inflammatory and insult someone's reading comprehension when it is clearly not flawed. That'll be fun!

The fact that the standards favor the industry does not mean that anyone is blaming Bush for the mine explosion, as you seem to think. If it is a true statement that the standards have been changed to be more lenient, this is something that is of concern to reformers, but you cannot make the leap of logic that they are blaming Bush - it's nonsensical and does not come from what they are saying.

Seriously wtf it really couldn't be anymore clear let's try it again, this is how the article begins:

WASHINGTON, DC -- In response to the devastating mine incident in West Virginia that has killed 12 mine workers and injured one other, Representatives George Miller (D-CA) and Major Owens (D-NY) today called for immediate Congressional hearings into mine safety. Miller said the hearings are critical to getting Congress the information it needs to determine what went wrong in West Virginia and to act to prevent another tragedy.

This is where they blame Bush:

Since Mr. Lauriski resigned his position in November 2004, the agency has been operating under an acting administrator. The President did not nominate a replacement for Mr. Lauriski until September 2005. That replacement has yet to take his seat.

With mining company officials at the helm of MSHA, the agency’s focus has clearly shifted away from protecting miners. A 2005 report by the AFL-CIO found that “at MSHA, 17 standards to improve safety and health for miners have been withdrawn since President Bush took office, including the Air Quality, Chemical Substances and Respiratory standards…For the most part at MSHA, those standards that have been proposed during the Bush Administration favor industry by moving to roll back existing protections. There are no pending standards to protect miners from hazards on their job.”


Serioulsy catch a clue.

 

[Deegan]

What? So you'd prefer that there be no accountability for companies that fail to follow safety regulations? That's what lawsuits are for, you know, so people can get reparations.

I have said if they have blatantly disregarded violations, they should be sued. I also know the facts, these men who go down everyday, they know the safety of those mines better then any pencil neck inspector. I have not heard one case where the WORKERS, were concerned about their safety, not one. I trust they know when a mine is in disarray, not some CEO, not some government hard a$$.:roll:

 

[FinnMacCool]

Why isn't this thread in the basement? Way to use a tragedy to attack liberals, asswhipe.

 

[Deegan]

Why isn't this thread in the basement? Way to use a tragedy to attack liberals, asswhipe.

Because it's spot on, do you have any relevant information to the contrary, or do you just wish it to go away?

 

[FinnMacCool]

Because it's spot on, do you have any relevant information to the contrary, or do you just wish it to go away?

What? The fact that 12 miners died or the fact that Trajan feels he has to generalize everyone and everything?

 

[FinnMacCool]

This bullshit has gone on far too long. Trajan is turning into a big ****ing troll. Just look at this title of this stupid, debateless topic which only purpose is meant to inflame.

 

[Deegan]

What? The fact that 12 miners died or the fact that Trajan feels he has to generalize everyone and everything?

It didn't even take weeks end, it was spun this way the next day!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

What? The fact that 12 miners died or the fact that Trajan feels he has to generalize everyone and everything?

No the fact that I predicted on Monday that somehow this mine tragedy would be blamed on Bush by the end of the week and I just proved my prediction because the Democrats have officially blamed Bush in the press release I just posted.

So who's using this tragedy to attack who again? Oh ya the libs to attack Bush how's that foot taste? :2wave:

 

[FinnMacCool]

When did I say the fact the miners died was Bush's fault?

If you honestly are hoping you can use this as a flame against liberals, you will find your gonna run into a brick wall.

Why should I be held responsible for every single person who happens to hold similar beliefs to me and says stupid things?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

When did I say the fact the miners died was Bush's fault?

If you honestly are hoping you can use this as a flame against liberals, you will find your gonna run into a brick wall.

Why should I be held responsible for every single person who happens to hold similar beliefs to me and says stupid things?

When did I say you did?

This is how I started the thread:

You mark my words this will be Bush's fault somehow by the end of the week guaranteed, just like Katrina and the tsunami, they will find a way and you can take that to the bank, I guarantee Dean's got a memo already in circulation to all members of the DNC to figure out the best way to pin this on Bush, this is politics there's no such thing as paranoia.

And this is where I proved my prediction:

this is how the article begins:

Lawmakers Call For Immediate Congressional Hearings into Mine Safety to Help Prevent Another Tragedy

Say Congress Has Abdicated its Oversight Responsibilities on Worker Safety Issues, While Bush Administration has Filled Worker Safety Agencies with Industry Insiders
Wednesday, January 04, 2006

WASHINGTON, DC -- In response to the devastating mine incident in West Virginia that has killed 12 mine workers and injured one other, Representatives George Miller (D-CA) and Major Owens (D-NY) today called for immediate Congressional hearings into mine safety. Miller said the hearings are critical to getting Congress the information it needs to determine what went wrong in West Virginia and to act to prevent another tragedy.

This is where they blame Bush:

Since Mr. Lauriski resigned his position in November 2004, the agency has been operating under an acting administrator. The President did not nominate a replacement for Mr. Lauriski until September 2005. That replacement has yet to take his seat.

With mining company officials at the helm of MSHA, the agency’s focus has clearly shifted away from protecting miners. A 2005 report by the AFL-CIO found that “at MSHA, 17 standards to improve safety and health for miners have been withdrawn since President Bush took office, including the Air Quality, Chemical Substances and Respiratory standards…For the most part at MSHA, those standards that have been proposed during the Bush Administration favor industry by moving to roll back existing protections. There are no pending standards to protect miners from hazards on their job.”

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ed31_democrats/rel1406.html

 

[FinnMacCool]

So who's using this tragedy to attack who again? Oh ya the libs to attack Bush how's that foot taste?

There you go.

They're saying that it's the Bush administrations fault that since he didn't have good enough oversight on the owners of the mine that it's his fault.

Keyword highlighted.

 

[FinnMacCool]

By the way, even if this all was relevant (which it isn't because what happened here was that Trajan started this thread originall to flame liberals and it just so happened that something somewhat similar happened that he spinned to make it seem like liberals are now blaming Bush for mine accident).
the article you gave doesn't say that they blame Bush.

 

[hipsterdufus]

I posted on Bush's involvement with Mine Safety regulations here:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=190200&postcount=22

Clearly Bush has gutted safety and health regulations in the mines.

But Bush has slashed funding for almost all of the departments that regulate public health and safety including:

Health & Human Services: Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NTSHA)
The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)
EPA: Clean Air Regulations
EPA: Clean Water Regulations

Whether you want to blame Bush for the deaths of babies drinking arsenic, eating unsafe food, or pregnant mothers eating mercury laden fish, or breathing more mercury in the air is up to you.

It's a pretty strong argument though.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/corp/arsenic.cfm
http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2002_06.asp
http://www.uaw.org/hs/03/02/hs01.cfm
http://irregulartimes.com/mercuryman.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20107

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

By the way, even if this all was relevant (which it isn't because what happened here was that Trajan started this thread originall to flame liberals and it just so happened that something somewhat similar happened that he spinned to make it seem like liberals are now blaming Bush for mine accident).

Typical liberal response accuse someone of spinning by spinning.

the article you gave doesn't say that they blame Bush.

Oh really then just what the hell does this mean?

This is how I started the thread:

You mark my words this will be Bush's fault somehow by the end of the week guaranteed, just like Katrina and the tsunami, they will find a way and you can take that to the bank, I guarantee Dean's got a memo already in circulation to all members of the DNC to figure out the best way to pin this on Bush, this is politics there's no such thing as paranoia.

And this is where I proved my prediction:

This is how the article begins:

Lawmakers Call For Immediate Congressional Hearings into Mine Safety to Help Prevent Another Tragedy

Say Congress Has Abdicated its Oversight Responsibilities on Worker Safety Issues, While Bush Administration has Filled Worker Safety Agencies with Industry Insiders
Wednesday, January 04, 2006

WASHINGTON, DC -- In response to the devastating mine incident in West Virginia that has killed 12 mine workers and injured one other, Representatives George Miller (D-CA) and Major Owens (D-NY) today called for immediate Congressional hearings into mine safety. Miller said the hearings are critical to getting Congress the information it needs to determine what went wrong in West Virginia and to act to prevent another tragedy.

This is where they blame Bush:

Since Mr. Lauriski resigned his position in November 2004, the agency has been operating under an acting administrator. The President did not nominate a replacement for Mr. Lauriski until September 2005. That replacement has yet to take his seat.

With mining company officials at the helm of MSHA, the agency’s focus has clearly shifted away from protecting miners. A 2005 report by the AFL-CIO found that “at MSHA, 17 standards to improve safety and health for miners have been withdrawn since President Bush took office, including the Air Quality, Chemical Substances and Respiratory standards…For the most part at MSHA, those standards that have been proposed during the Bush Administration favor industry by moving to roll back existing protections. There are no pending standards to protect miners from hazards on their job.”

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ed31_democrats/rel1406.html

Where the **** is my spin I'm waiting for your spinned response.

 

[Engimo]

Typical liberal response accuse someone of spinning by spinning.


Oh really then just what the hell does this mean?

This is how I started the thread:


And this is where I proved my prediction:

That's not blaming him, damnit, it's a factual statement. Is it not true that the regulations have been changed to become more lax under the Bush administration? Yes. Does that mean that anyone is saying that this particular incident is a direct result of Bush's actions? No. The idea is nonsense.

The only thing that Bush could be charged with is complacency or negligence in his loosening of the regulations, but it's clearly not as if Bush went to the mine and planted explosives.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I posted on Bush's involvement with Mine Safety regulations here:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=190200&postcount=22

Clearly Bush has gutted safety and health regulations in the mines.

But Bush has slashed funding for almost all of the departments that regulate public health and safety including:

Health & Human Services: Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NTSHA)
The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)
EPA: Clean Air Regulations
EPA: Clean Water Regulations

Whether you want to blame Bush for the deaths of babies drinking arsenic, eating unsafe food, or pregnant mothers eating mercury laden fish, or breathing more mercury in the air is up to you.

It's a pretty strong argument though.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/corp/arsenic.cfm
http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2002_06.asp
http://www.uaw.org/hs/03/02/hs01.cfm
http://irregulartimes.com/mercuryman.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20107

lmfao point, set, and match. Thanks for the proof that anything and everything that goes wrong in the world is Bush's fault.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

That's not blaming him, damnit, it's a factual statement. Is it not true that the regulations have been changed to become more lax under the Bush administration? Yes. Does that mean that anyone is saying that this particular incident is a direct result of Bush's actions? No. The idea is nonsense.

The only thing that Bush could be charged with is complacency or negligence in his loosening of the regulations, but it's clearly not as if Bush went to the mine and planted explosives.

aha and there we have you admit that you think the mine explosion is Bush's fault.

I ****ing knew it.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Where the **** is my spin I'm waiting for your spinned response.

They're not saying that Bush purposefully collapsed the mine on the workers as you imply. The article doesn't imply this either. Your interpertation of it is warped because you see liberal bias everywhere.

aha and there we have you admit that you think the mine explosion is Bush's fault.

I ****ing knew it.

Can you see the spin now?

Happy Birthday, Your Not Special

lmfao point, set, and match. Thanks for the proof that anything and everything that goes wrong in the world is Bush's fault.

More spin.

 

[Deegan]

I posted on Bush's involvement with Mine Safety regulations here:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=190200&postcount=22

Clearly Bush has gutted safety and health regulations in the mines.

But Bush has slashed funding for almost all of the departments that regulate public health and safety including:

Health & Human Services: Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NTSHA)
The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)
EPA: Clean Air Regulations
EPA: Clean Water Regulations

Whether you want to blame Bush for the deaths of babies drinking arsenic, eating unsafe food, or pregnant mothers eating mercury laden fish, or breathing more mercury in the air is up to you.

It's a pretty strong argument though.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/corp/arsenic.cfm
http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2002_06.asp
http://www.uaw.org/hs/03/02/hs01.cfm
http://irregulartimes.com/mercuryman.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20107

So basically they are saying, if we don't find violations, then we lose our jobs, does that about cover it? I think it does, and the new admin. knew this, and told these people to "wrap it up" as their agenda became an all out assault on the owners of mines. I don't know of anyone who feeds their family from the local creek, or anyone who drinks directly from said creek, maybe I am just too use to living in the city or something.:roll: