• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

1 in 500 US residents has died of COVID.

W_Heisenberg

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
14,282
Reaction score
10,712
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
You don't find 73% a significant number? You don't find 78% of those who need hospital care for Covid being obese is a significant number?

Not only am I vaccinated, I was among the first to receive the vaccine at the end of 2020. What of it? I made the choice to vaccinate because I have an underlying health condition. The second does of the vaccine sent me to the ER and put me out of work for a week. Still it was a choice I made for my health. Just as diet and exercise and plenty of sleep are also choices I make for my health.

Let’s hear more about this. What did the vaccine do to you that caused you to wind up in the ER?

The Covid Karens need to stop with the hyperbole if they want to get the unvaccinated on board. The biggest thing that needs to stop if the lying. I've managed to talk some people into taking the vaccine that were adamant they didn't want to. I did it without lying and hyperbole.

The problem is that icus all over the country are filling up with trump supporters and Republicans who believe a wide variety of conspiracy theories about the vaccine.
 

W_Heisenberg

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
14,282
Reaction score
10,712
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
in the hospital from the vaccine then they are from COVID


Your risk of heart inflammation from covid-19 infection is greater than risk of heart inflammation from the vaccine.
 

W_Heisenberg

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
14,282
Reaction score
10,712
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Completely different diseases with completely different histories and completely different medical implications.

Would love to hear this explanation in greater detail.
 

W_Heisenberg

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
14,282
Reaction score
10,712
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Agreed. The news media and Fauci were negligent from the start. If they had said in March of 2020 that this thing hits fat people the hardest (which only makes sense because they can't breathe in the first place), they would have had a year and a half to lose weight by now.

But less weight means less diabetes medication sales.

It’s now Fauci’s fault that fat people dying now didn’t lose weight fast enough to not die from a Covid-19 infection?

Is that what you’re going with? Really?
 

W_Heisenberg

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
14,282
Reaction score
10,712
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Texas has a different kind of Covid? What fresh non sense is this?

I think he’s trying to suggest that Covid-19 isn’t as big of a problem as the common diseases children are vaccinated against.

It really sucks debating Trump supporters and Republicans and anti-vaxxers on this issue. I spend half my time trying to figure out what crazy argument they’ve just made and I find myself rewriting their posts or rephrasing their argument so their arguments are logical enough and make enough sense for me to adequately respond to.

Sometimes they will say something they heard from a friend without verifying it. I spend 15 to 30 minutes making sure I’m accurate by double checking authoritative sources like the CDC or some legitimate double blind care study. They half-hear some stupid shit on Facebook or Fox News and try to repeat a mangled version of it on here.

There’s something about the pandemic that has apparently made Trump supporters and Republicans less competent at making good arguments. Or maybe it’s just hard justifying the unjustifiable.
 

W_Heisenberg

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
14,282
Reaction score
10,712
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I'm talking about saving lives. Either these mandates are to save lives or they aren't . if they are they need to target the real reason Covid is so deadly.

Yes, obese people infected with Covid-19 tend to have worse outcomes than people who aren’t obese that doesn’t mean we should not vaccinate people. It’s not like encouraging weight loss and encouraging vaccination are mutually exclusive.

Your argument is dumb.
 

W_Heisenberg

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
14,282
Reaction score
10,712
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Nonsensical hysteria. 95% of COVID deaths are 50 and older, and 80% are over 65. More over, at least half of these worn-out oldsters were likely to die anyway in the last 18 months anyway.

A little early herd culling isn't a major crisis...its part of the cycle of human life and death.

Your attitude is typical of most Republicans and Trump supporters, and that’s why for as long as I live I will never vote for another Republican. What I’m reading from you right now is pure evil.


The same figures reveal that the average number of life years lost per U.S. coronavirus death in 2020 was 14 years.


Life expectancy increases with age​

The large number of life years lost due to COVID-19 in 2020 may not be widely appreciated because people ages 65 and older account for a large majority (approximately 80%) of U.S. coronavirus deaths to date. Some observers have raised the point that the public may believe that these older Americans were nearing the end of their lives anyway.

But life expectancy statistics tell a different story. In fact, life expectancy increases with age. While babies born in the U.S. today can expect to live to be 79, Americans who are 65 today can expect to live to 85, according to the United Nations World Population Prospects. Current 80-year-olds, in turn, can expect to live to an average age of 90.

The pandemic, in other words, has killed many Americans who otherwise might have expected to live for years or even decades longer. A 65-year-old who dies from COVID-19 might ordinarily have expected to live until 85 – a difference of two decades, or roughly a quarter of the average American’s total expected life span at birth.
 

CaughtInThe

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
45,253
Reaction score
28,670
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Your attitude is typical of most Republicans and Trump supporters, and that’s why for as long as I live I will never vote for another Republican. What I’m reading from you right now is pure evil.
Yup

They were NEVER pro life. It was just a slogan.
 

screenwriter

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
2,308
Reaction score
425
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yes, obese people infected with Covid-19 tend to have worse outcomes than people who aren’t obese that doesn’t mean we should not vaccinate people. It’s not like encouraging weight loss and encouraging vaccination are mutually exclusive.

Your argument is dumb.

I've never said we shouldn't vaccinate people.

Your argument is inside your own mind.
 

screenwriter

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
2,308
Reaction score
425
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
...
Yes, obese people infected with Covid-19 tend to have worse outcomes than people who aren’t obese that doesn’t mean we should not vaccinate people. It’s not like encouraging weight loss and encouraging vaccination are mutually exclusive.

Your argument is dumb.
Yet, there is zero in the encouraging weight loss. Just the opposite.
 

screenwriter

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
2,308
Reaction score
425
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
It’s now Fauci’s fault that fat people dying now didn’t lose weight fast enough to not die from a Covid-19 infection?

Is that what you’re going with? Really?

Yes, so much better to ignore the entire obesity thing since it steps on PC toes to say anything about people losing weight. Can't have that.
 

screenwriter

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
2,308
Reaction score
425
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
You are absolutely right. Why are Trump supporters and Republicans so intent on infecting each other disinformation that is leading to their deaths?

Why the pretense of caring?
 

screenwriter

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
2,308
Reaction score
425
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think he’s trying to suggest that Covid-19 isn’t as big of a problem as the common diseases children are vaccinated against.

It really sucks debating Trump supporters and Republicans and anti-vaxxers on this issue. I spend half my time trying to figure out what crazy argument they’ve just made and I find myself rewriting their posts or rephrasing their argument so their arguments are logical enough and make enough sense for me to adequately respond to.

Sometimes they will say something they heard from a friend without verifying it. I spend 15 to 30 minutes making sure I’m accurate by double checking authoritative sources like the CDC or some legitimate double blind care study. They half-hear some stupid shit on Facebook or Fox News and try to repeat a mangled version of it on here.

There’s something about the pandemic that has apparently made Trump supporters and Republicans less competent at making good arguments. Or maybe it’s just hard justifying the unjustifiable.
You spend 100% of your time being a Karen. You're not part of the solution - just being the problem.
 

Felis Leo

Moral clarity is needed
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
9,220
Reaction score
9,901
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Get back to us when you're willing to say the exact same of the obese and pass mandates that no one is allowed to be obese.

Sure, screenwriter. Let us prevent morbid obesity through early school fitness and diet programs. Let us prevent deaths from communicable diseases such as COVID-19 through either vaccine mandates or mandatory testing and quarantines. Whatever saves the most lives in the short term and in the long run without infringing upon the freedoms of others, I am for.

But I would add: The issue at present is that those who refuse the vaccine are not simply putting themselves at risk. A communicable disease endangers both the unvaccinated carrier and those he spreads it to. I do not know of anyone who died because someone else was morbidly obese, and the obesity alone was the cause of death (and the obese person did not, say, fall on top of the other person killing them). I do not know of any Constitutional provision either written in or read into our Constitution via our jurisprudence that confers on any citizen the Constitutional right to be a free-moving plague carrier.
 
Last edited:

beefheart

You left out a Hoongadoonga
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
41,210
Reaction score
31,615
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
The Covid Karens need to stop with the hyperbole if they want to get the unvaccinated on board. The biggest thing that needs to stop if the lying. I've managed to talk some people into taking the vaccine that were adamant they didn't want to. I did it without lying and hyperbole.
Oh bullshit, Jesus Christ could descend from a cloud and tell you to get vaccinated and you would call him a libtard fear monger.
 

Felis Leo

Moral clarity is needed
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
9,220
Reaction score
9,901
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Oh bullshit, Jesus Christ could descend from a cloud and tell you to get vaccinated and you would call him a libtard fear monger.

Hey, if he actually did get people who otherwise refused to listen to the experts to get vaccinated, then I am happy he did so.
 

Felis Leo

Moral clarity is needed
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
9,220
Reaction score
9,901
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I suspect you meant to say "blue pill Neo". For a second I was wondering what pill Nemo had to swallow in Finding Nemo.
;)

And you thought masks usage getting people vaccinated was hard to implement? Wait until you have to tell people to put down the fast food, eat better, and get off the couch take the blue pill.
:)

Maybe he is referring to Little Nemo in Slumberland from the 1905-1927 serialized newspaper comic?

Or Captain Nemo from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? Now there was a man who could have used the Blue Pill.
 

beefheart

You left out a Hoongadoonga
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
41,210
Reaction score
31,615
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Your attitude is typical of most Republicans and Trump supporters, and that’s why for as long as I live I will never vote for another Republican. What I’m reading from you right now is pure evil.


The same figures reveal that the average number of life years lost per U.S. coronavirus death in 2020 was 14 years.


Life expectancy increases with age​

The large number of life years lost due to COVID-19 in 2020 may not be widely appreciated because people ages 65 and older account for a large majority (approximately 80%) of U.S. coronavirus deaths to date. Some observers have raised the point that the public may believe that these older Americans were nearing the end of their lives anyway.

But life expectancy statistics tell a different story. In fact, life expectancy increases with age. While babies born in the U.S. today can expect to live to be 79, Americans who are 65 today can expect to live to 85, according to the United Nations World Population Prospects. Current 80-year-olds, in turn, can expect to live to an average age of 90.

The pandemic, in other words, has killed many Americans who otherwise might have expected to live for years or even decades longer. A 65-year-old who dies from COVID-19 might ordinarily have expected to live until 85 – a difference of two decades, or roughly a quarter of the average American’s total expected life span at birth.
I swear, these people think that ignorance is a virtue.
 

Court Jester

Proud Systemic Anti-Wokist Paleocon Jedi Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
7,425
Reaction score
2,880
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Obesity is not contagious. Post fail.
Been to Mexico lately?

rotunno3feb_0.jpg
 

Juks

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
2,728
Reaction score
1,125
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
And 73% of those 1 in 500 were Obese
Obesity (a BMI above 30) is a more difficult matter than you might think. But you do have a culture of big portions and no natural exercise (car even for just shopping groceries)


One problem is that unhealthy food is often much cheaper than healthy food which gives poor people small options. Ask yourself: If you work 2 jobs and still have to turn over every penny, would you buy minced meat for 21 dollars per kilo (2,2 pounds) or would you buy ready-made meatballs for 3,5 dollar for 1 kilo to feed your kids and save time in the process?

Another problem is that long working hours and short lunchtimes makes you eat more at fewer occasions which disturbs your body’s balance and makes you gain weight even though you do not eat that much in total. It also makes you eat sandwiches and so on at your office chair, which is not good food. Neither is semi finished products which also often is cheaper than making it yourself from ground up.

Your society is also built for car driving and not for walking or bicycling.

33% of al Americans are obese, 14% of al swedes (has a BMI over 30), so it is a big problem in my country as well.


It is also a moment 22 that many very obesed people get hackled when outside, which makes them reluctant to go out and move around which would reduce their overweight (obesity)
 
Last edited:

maxparrish

Conservatarian
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
7,957
Reaction score
2,915
Location
SF Bay Area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Your attitude is typical of most Republicans and Trump supporters, and that’s why for as long as I live I will never vote for another Republican. What I’m reading from you right now is pure evil.


The same figures reveal that the average number of life years lost per U.S. coronavirus death in 2020 was 14 years.


Life expectancy increases with age​

The large number of life years lost due to COVID-19 in 2020 may not be widely appreciated because people ages 65 and older account for a large majority (approximately 80%) of U.S. coronavirus deaths to date. Some observers have raised the point that the public may believe that these older Americans were nearing the end of their lives anyway.

But life expectancy statistics tell a different story. In fact, life expectancy increases with age. While babies born in the U.S. today can expect to live to be 79, Americans who are 65 today can expect to live to 85, according to the United Nations World Population Prospects. Current 80-year-olds, in turn, can expect to live to an average age of 90.

The pandemic, in other words, has killed many Americans who otherwise might have expected to live for years or even decades longer. A 65-year-old who dies from COVID-19 might ordinarily have expected to live until 85 – a difference of two decades, or roughly a quarter of the average American’s total expected life span at birth.

PEW, as might be expected, is towing the party line - the only opinion on COVID that the cultural left allows. None the less, sane and rational voices frequently break through the truth blockades and the memory hole censorship of the monolithic social media... so far at least.

And if you were exposed to such knowledge you wouldn't have needed to rely on PEW's unsupported inferences drawn from statistical compilations.

1) The (non Covid adjusted) life expectancy for U.S. in 2020 was 78.93 years, a 0.08% increase from 2019. (3)

2) From March 1, 2020 to March 1, 2021 there were about 500,000 Covid related or associated deaths (2). According to the methods provided by a demography study (1) the effect on a national life expectancy reduction would be about 1.5 years.

3) This small reduction would equal to US life expectancy in 2005, in other words, it would be indistinguishable in the lives of most persons.

4) By any pandemic or epidemic measure, COVID is not the society wide grim reaper made out by the panic mongers.

Here is a chart, I updated with current information, from the cited study (which had assumed a million deaths a year for COVID). It includes the 500,000 deaths from March 1, 2020 to March 1, 2021. That should be instructive to you is that while the effect on reduced life expectancy is only 1/4 of that of the Spanish Flu of 1918, the ACTUAL effect on remaining life years lost was 1/8th of that flu. Why? Because unlike COVID the Spanish Flu killed the very young, working age adults, and the old...on average people with far more years to live.

1631778714315.png


Here is the bottom line.

COVID is heavily concentrated among the very old and sick. More than half, according to Neil Ferguson, would have died within weeks or months in any case. Such is unpreventable as it is a function of underlying conditions of age, heart disease, etc. In contrast. children and young adults are of tiny risk.

In other words, in “life-years lost” (multiplying the number of deaths by the life expectancy of each person who has died) is very small compared to a major epidemic like the 1918 flu.

The lockdowns, crashing the economy, and hyper inflation are all a result of over-reaction to an old persons disease. Now we are paying a heavy price as savings are devalued and shortages continue to vex the population (producers price index jumped to 8.3% inflation rate in last measurement).

Christ people, we are speaking of retreating slightly to the longevity of 2005, not 1805, or 1405.

1) https://www.pnas.org/content/117/36/22035
2) https://covidtracking.com/data/national/deaths
3)https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life-expectancy
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom