1/6 committee: Evidence Trump engaged in 'criminal conspiracy,' may have broken laws

[IQ57]

So says the MSM. Loathing a person helps the people feel ok that they get gaslighted. Even if it is a lie. People feed off lies. There in lies the rub.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Not quite. I'm looking for the "Search Warrant Standard" to lead to something that results in justice. Justice, most certainly, is being delayed. These people are getting away with shooting someone on 5th Ave. The Commitee does not have within all reasoning the evidence to file a formal accusation. Only an accusation that it is there. Somewhere.

The OUTCOME of a search warrant and the BURDEN OF PROOF required to get a search warrant are not the same thing.

It appears that what many people want is for search warrants to be issued ONLY if the prosecution already has sufficient evidence to convict (which evidence they obtained without doing any investigating [because it is unconstitutional to investigate an innocent person {and anyone who has not been convicted is innocent}]).

Of course if the persons under consideration were Democrats, the position of those same people would be that no search warrants would be needed because they had been accused and that means that they are guilty (so there is also no need for any investigations or trials).

 

[bluesmoke]

They're still in the middle of the investigation. This filing is only about the request for documents from Eastman. When they have the evidence, the tone will change. They need his documents to show the evidence.

You guys always talk in circles. You're putting the horse before the cart. No one will ever be held to justice if investigations could be halted because of a lack of evidence. Cases can be. Investigations are what provide that evidence. But we haven't reached that point yet.

What can you quote from any post of mine on this thread that was incorrect/false?

 

[yankintx]

Eastman is shown to know he is violating laws to have pence delay the election.

These people should be arrested

Trump is screaming how he was robbed, at the same time his staff and other GOP scum bags worked on a way to steal the election from Biden.

Talk about projection

 

[bluesmoke]

The OUTCOME of a search warrant and the BURDEN OF PROOF required to get a search warrant are not the same thing.

It appears that what many people want is for search warrants to be issued ONLY if the prosecution already has sufficient evidence to convict (which evidence they obtained without doing any investigating [because it is unconstitutional to investigate an innocent person {and anyone who has not been convicted is innocent}]).

Of course if the persons under consideration were Democrats, the position of those same people would be that no search warrants would be needed because they had been accused and that means that they are guilty (so there is also no need for any investigations or trials).

The Russian version of investigation leading to conviction makes it a guaranteed right to a speedy trial, whether the defendant wants one so speedy or not.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Well if the partisan 1/6 commission says so...

If your concern about partisanship is honest and genuine, then you should be aware that the Republicans sabotaged a bipartisan commission by insisting that witness be on it. Even after the Dems agreed to all their other demands. That way the Dems would have to do it themselves, and then people can come along later and dismiss the commission as a partisan witch hunt. Don't be played for a fool.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Prosecuting your political enemies just seems very banana republic and wrong, even if the target in this case is someone as annoying as Donald Trump.

People who attack the American system of government are not political enemies, they're domestic enemies. Banana Republic would be to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

 

[Binary_Digit]

So says the MSM.

Not the MSM, the House committee.

Loathing a person helps the people feel ok that they get gaslighted. Even if it is a lie. People feed off lies. There in lies the rub.

That's right, the Capitol rioters were gaslighted and fed lies by the orange despot shitgibbon and they all need to be held accountable from the top down.

 

[Taylor]

If your concern about partisanship is honest and genuine, then you should be aware that the Republicans sabotaged a bipartisan commission by insisting that witness be on it. Even after the Dems agreed to all their other demands. That way the Dems would have to do it themselves, and then people can come along later and dismiss the commission as a partisan witch hunt. Don't be played for a fool.

No, it was Pelosi that sabotaged it. She wanted it to be lopsided and wanted final say on all the members. She chose the ultra-partisan route.

 

[Binary_Digit]

No, it was Pelosi that sabotaged it. She wanted it to be lopsided and wanted final say on all the members. She chose the ultra-partisan route.

Why lie?

On May 14, 2021, both sides of Congress agreed to a bipartisan commission.

Congressional leaders reach deal on Jan. 6 commission, but McCarthy has concerns

Moments after the agreement for the 9/11-style commission was announced, the House minority leader said he hadn't signed off.

www.nbcnews.com

On May 28, 2021, REPUBLICANS blocked it.

GOP blocks bipartisan probe of deadly Jan. 6 riot at Capitol

Senate Republicans on Friday blocked the creation of a bipartisan panel to study the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, refusing to back down on their opposition to the independent investigation even amid emotional appeals from those who fought with and fled from the rioters that day.

www.pbs.org

Republicans said they were open to the creation of an independent commission, but only if their demands were met. Democrats met those demands, only to have House GOP lawmakers balk anyway.

Why did Republicans block the bipartisan commission? Provide sources.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The Russian version of investigation leading to conviction makes it a guaranteed right to a speedy trial, whether the defendant wants one so speedy or not.

Which, of course, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with either my post or the thread topic at all.

Nice example of "Drive-by Posting".

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

What you are looking at is the "Search Warrant Standard" which is "reasonable and probable grounds to believe". That standard does NOT have to rise to the "on the balance of probabilities" level, let alone the "beyond a reasonable doubt" level.

The issue is do they have evidence or are they still fishing. When does the constitution come into play and start charging the people conducting a witch hunt. There has to be accountability on both sides. The problem is the parties have turned our judicial system into 2 lynch mobs where the one in power attacks the other.

 

[Uncle_Phil]

People who attack the American system of government are not political enemies, they're domestic enemies. Banana Republic would be to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

Just seems like a slippery slope to me, and one I'd rather not go down. I'm not a supporter of Trump but I'm more concerned about the bigger picture, and what kind of precedent this stuff sets for the next presidents.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Just seems like a slippery slope to me, and one I'd rather not go down. I'm not a supporter of Trump but I'm more concerned about the bigger picture, and what kind of precedent this stuff sets for the next presidents.

The precedent I'm much more concerned about is the idea that some big mouthed wannabe dictator can stir up an angry mob with lies, send them down the street to murder his political opponents, and then get away with it as if it never even happened.

The next guy who comes along and tries to instigate a bloody overthrow of the American government might not be as stupid as Trump is and might actually succeed.

He should see Trump, Guiliani, Brooks, etc. sitting in prison and know that the same fate awaits him too if he dares to try and steal our country from us.

 

[reflechissez]

If your concern about partisanship is honest and genuine, then you should be aware that the Republicans sabotaged a bipartisan commission by insisting that witness be on it. Even after the Dems agreed to all their other demands. That way the Dems would have to do it themselves, and then people can come along later and dismiss the commission as a partisan witch hunt. Don't be played for a fool.

Too late.

 

[TomFitz]

Here's a Real Helpful hint for you frustrated people!
When the Main Stream Media has to sprinkle in words like "Maybe" , "Might have", "Possible that", or "If true could mean" etc....
That mean they are gaslighting , lying, or pushing Propaganda !...

Here's a great example:
When the Media put out the audio of Trump talking to GA sec of State Raffensberger, is all that happened was they MADE YOU FEEL Trump
was doing something wrong ! If Trump was "Abusing Power" and attempting to change the TRUE results of the election that IS TREASON!!!

So if they weren't lying to you why didn't the GA AG initiate an investigation and charge Trump ?.... It's been > 1year ago and they do talk
about much, do they ? Why do you think that is ? .... Treason is not that big of a deal ? ....

But Raffensberger did recently open a new investigation based on data(video he had) that US Citizens showed him where people
stuffing ballot boxes (Go see 2000 Mules)! So 1+ years later Raffensberger has not charge Trump, but he IS finding that Trump's statements about fraud is more real than he stated back in 2020!....

Trump was asking Raffensberger to fix and election. That’s against the law. He didn’t care where the votes came from. They didn’t have to be real either.

They just had to be one more than the other guy got. That’s what trump asked for.

 

[TomFitz]

The precedent I'm much more concerned about is the idea that some big mouthed wannabe dictator can stir up an angry mob with lies, send them down the street to murder his political opponents, and then get away with it as if it never even happened.

The next guy who comes along and tries to instigate a bloody overthrow of the American government might not be as stupid as Trump is and might actually succeed.

He should see Trump, Guiliani, Brooks, etc. sitting in prison and know that the same fate awaits him too if he dares to try and steal our country from us.

Roger Stone and Donald Trump have been buds for a long time. They should share a cell together.

Manafort and Flynn can be across the hall.

And Rudy and his two Russian friends can be in the same wing.

Bannon and Miller too!

 

[The AntiDonald]

Just seems like a slippery slope to me, and one I'd rather not go down. I'm not a supporter of Trump but I'm more concerned about the bigger picture, and what kind of precedent this stuff sets for the next presidents.

What you need to be more concerned about is the precedent it sets if we don't hold people accountable. It'll be anything goes from here on out. If a president stays reasonably within the law, there shouldn't need to be investigations.

 

[bluesmoke]

Which, of course, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with either my post or the thread topic at all.

Nice example of "Drive-by Posting".

You were talking about the investigation process leading to conviction and ended your post with a humorous line to do with what would make the entire process practically unnecessary and thus arriving at a very quick conclusion. What I said was meant to be humorous, as was your last point, and entirely relevant to your post.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

You were talking about the investigation process leading to conviction and ended your post with a humorous line to do with what would make the entire process practically unnecessary and thus arriving at a very quick conclusion. What I said was meant to be humorous, as was your last point, and entirely relevant to your post.

Sorry about that Chief.

Sometimes humour comes through even less well than sarcasm does.

PS - The "Of course if the persons under consideration were Democrats, the position of those same people would be that no search warrants would be needed because they had been accused and that means that they are guilty (so there is also no need for any investigations or trials)." bit was entirely serious. The "those same persons" being referred to being the "Republicans" who are NOW insisting that no one is ever doing anything improper until AFTER they have been convicted and lost all of their appeals and who WERE insisting that Ms. Clinton be incarcerated IMMEDIATELY based on the premise that she was **G*U*I*L*T*Y** merely because she had been accused of wrongdoing.

 

[Uncle_Phil]

The precedent I'm much more concerned about is the idea that some big mouthed wannabe dictator can stir up an angry mob with lies, send them down the street to murder his political opponents, and then get away with it as if it never even happened.

The next guy who comes along and tries to instigate a bloody overthrow of the American government might not be as stupid as Trump is and might actually succeed.

He should see Trump, Guiliani, Brooks, etc. sitting in prison and know that the same fate awaits him too if he dares to try and steal our country from us.

Aren't you overstating what happened a bit? I want to remember it as just being a protest where some unfortunate violence took place, but that's not too uncommon for protests.

The fact that it took place in Washington doesn't make it any different from protests happening for other reasons in other places, in my opinion. I never felt an inkling of a threat that the government was ever at risk of being "overthrown," all I saw was angry white trash blowing off steam.

 

[Callen]

Aren't you overstating what happened a bit? I want to remember it as just being a protest where some unfortunate violence took place, but that's not too uncommon for protests.

The fact that it took place in Washington doesn't make it any different from protests happening for other reasons in other places, in my opinion. I never felt an inkling of a threat that the government was ever at risk of being "overthrown," all I saw was angry white trash blowing off steam.

In some ways right had it not been for the fact the President of the a United States ,and his desire to have the election process thwarted, being the impetus.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Aren't you overstating what happened a bit?

Nope. He knew that crowd was likely to get violent because the FBI started tracking people who expressed a desire to commit violence at the rally days after it was announced. He spent months whipping them into a mouth foaming frenzy with lies about rigged elections and stolen countries. Then he spent over an hour telling them to show strength and fight like hell to save our democracy or else they won't have a country anymore. Meanwhile he had Rudy Guliani across the street calling for a trial by combat, and Mo Brooks asking his crowd if they're willing to shed blood like the founders were. Then he sent them all down the street, where they didn't have a permit to be, to a building that just happened to be full of members of Congress at that particular time, who he said were about to steal their country from them.

 

[Callen]

Nope. He knew that crowd was likely to get violent because the FBI started tracking people who expressed a desire to commit violence at the rally days after it was announced. He spent months whipping them into a mouth foaming frenzy with lies about rigged elections and stolen countries. Then he spent over an hour telling them to show strength and fight like hell to save our democracy or else they won't have a country anymore. Meanwhile he had Rudy Guliani across the street calling for a trial by combat, and Mo Brooks asking his crowd if they're willing to shed blood like the founders were. Then he sent them all down the street, where they didn't have a permit to be, to a building that just happened to be full of members of Congress at that particular time, who he said were about to steal their country from them.

Well said!

How any thinking, patriotic American can read that and then say Trump had no bad intent is beyond delusional. We now know even ore about how he was trying to subvert the will of the people.

 

[TomFitz]

Nope. He knew that crowd was likely to get violent because the FBI started tracking people who expressed a desire to commit violence at the rally days after it was announced. He spent months whipping them into a mouth foaming frenzy with lies about rigged elections and stolen countries. Then he spent over an hour telling them to show strength and fight like hell to save our democracy or else they won't have a country anymore. Meanwhile he had Rudy Guliani across the street calling for a trial by combat, and Mo Brooks asking his crowd if they're willing to shed blood like the founders were. Then he sent them all down the street, where they didn't have a permit to be, to a building that just happened to be full of members of Congress at that particular time, who he said were about to steal their country from them.

It is also all but obvious that Trump and his co conspirators also conspires with various skinhead and white militia groups to insure that they formed the tip of the spear and insured that the mob would be energized.

Trump hid, of course, He was not “right there with you”. He was watching it on Fox and loving every minute of it.

Meanwhile, Roger Stone was tossing everything in a suitcase and rushing to get out of town.