• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

‘The sound of money’: Wind energy is booming in deep-red Republican states

Loulit01

Muse Wanted: Apply Naked
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
8,398
Reaction score
9,663
Location
Chillin' on the grassy knoll waiting for JFK Jr.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other

Gateman_Wen

Official disruptive influence
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
17,389
Reaction score
17,946
Location
Middle of it all
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other

bluesmoke

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
22,220
Reaction score
7,939
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
4 of the top 5 wind energy states are red with TX #1. That should be the only answer to the con posters that decry wind power.
 

Artymoon

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
3,957
Reaction score
2,347
Location
U.S.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I think wind energy is awesome, as is any other form we can think of. The sheer size though and amount of real estate necessary for each unit is just not feasible for large scale production.
 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
38,909
Reaction score
13,426
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think wind can be a good supplement for Solar, but I think in the long run it will not be economically viable.
We will just have to see, if the higher maintenance cost, and lower capacity factor are enough to justify the costs.
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,353
Reaction score
25,329
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I think wind energy is awesome, as is any other form we can think of. The sheer size though and amount of real estate necessary for each unit is just not feasible for large scale production.
I would call that attitude, defeatist. It's no wonder so many folks feel like victims with that kind of thinking and it's been a mainstay in the gop for decades. Right to the negative and all the reasons something won't or can't work without ever trying.
 

Artymoon

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
3,957
Reaction score
2,347
Location
U.S.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I would call that attitude, defeatist. It's no wonder so many folks feel like victims with that kind of thinking and it's been a mainstay in the gop for decades. Right to the negative and all the reasons something won't or can't work without ever trying.
Not defeatist, realist. As I've already stated, I think wind is great and it's another egg in the basket. But onshore acreage to run wind farms is insane. From the article alone, this one windfarm is spread out over 220,000 acres - roughly 345 square miles. Add that to the other two windfarms in the area - that they don't even mention their size - just for 356 turbines to power 440k homes per year under ideal conditions. This can certainly supplement existing power grid for smaller areas. By way of comparison, NYC alone consumes north of 50 terawatts per year. Isn't enough land to even touch that.
 

bluesmoke

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
22,220
Reaction score
7,939
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I think wind energy is awesome, as is any other form we can think of. The sheer size though and amount of real estate necessary for each unit is just not feasible for large scale production.

Never heard of the limit you say there is on large scale production for the reason you give. Any link you can give me would be helpful to support what you claim.
 

PoS

Minister of Love
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
28,961
Reaction score
22,523
Location
Oceania
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Not defeatist, realist. As I've already stated, I think wind is great and it's another egg in the basket. But onshore acreage to run wind farms is insane. From the article alone, this one windfarm is spread out over 220,000 acres - roughly 345 square miles. Add that to the other two windfarms in the area - that they don't even mention their size - just for 356 turbines to power 440k homes per year under ideal conditions. This can certainly supplement existing power grid for smaller areas. By way of comparison, NYC alone consumes north of 50 terawatts per year. Isn't enough land to even touch that.
Yup, the only way for wind to even come close to matching the output of fossil fuels is to blanket every available land space on Earth with wind farms, and even then it would not be enough.
 

Artymoon

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
3,957
Reaction score
2,347
Location
U.S.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Never heard of the limit you say there is on large scale production for the reason you give. Any link you can give me would be helpful to support what you claim.
The limit would be in the amount of land. We don't have enough in this country to power every household with wind. Each turbine of the size in this story needs a certain amount of space in between the next. If they are too close, they can cause turbulence in the area making them less efficient.

 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
38,909
Reaction score
13,426
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
No one is saying wind power will replace oil. It's simply another tool in the necessary effort to move away from fossil fuels. Far right media makes people simple-minded.
Actually the main idea of a zero emission sustainable energy future, is that Wind, Solar, Hydro, Geothermal, ect,
will replace the energy we get from all the fossil fuels.
The reality is that to do that we need massive energy storage, more than we can get from batteries.
 

Lord of Planar

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
57,233
Reaction score
18,986
Location
Portlandia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right

Loulit01

Muse Wanted: Apply Naked
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
8,398
Reaction score
9,663
Location
Chillin' on the grassy knoll waiting for JFK Jr.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Have any of these wind mills met a strong tornado yet?
Haven't you heard? We have Google now! If you go to Google and type in that question you'll find out. Ain't that great? I'm surprised you haven't heard about it since you're so up on current issues and all. I guess far right media hasn't told you about windmills and tornados. Don't worry, I'm sure Tucker will get to it eventually.
 

Lord of Planar

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
57,233
Reaction score
18,986
Location
Portlandia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Haven't you heard? We have Google now! If you go to Google and type in that question you'll find out. Ain't that great? I'm surprised you haven't heard about it since you're so up on current issues and all. I guess far right media hasn't told you about windmills and tornados. Don't worry, I'm sure Tucker will get to it eventually.
Well, my experience with search engines is they give information overload of the most common searches. It's often hard to find something more specific.

I asked a question that I was hoping someone could answer.
 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
38,909
Reaction score
13,426
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative

bluesmoke

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
22,220
Reaction score
7,939
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well, my experience with search engines is they give information overload of the most common searches. It's often hard to find something more specific.

I asked a question that I was hoping someone could answer.

Since you disqualify search engines, in what way can your question be answered that you can't answer yourself?
 

Buzz

Irritant
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
4,741
Reaction score
963
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other

Lord of Planar

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
57,233
Reaction score
18,986
Location
Portlandia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Since you disqualify search engines, in what way can your question be answered that you can't answer yourself?
Some results are favored, some are hard to find.

Am I to assume you take the first easy results found?
 

Bergslagstroll

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
6,345
Reaction score
1,314
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The limit would be in the amount of land. We don't have enough in this country to power every household with wind. Each turbine of the size in this story needs a certain amount of space in between the next. If they are too close, they can cause turbulence in the area making them less efficient.


Denmark that is much densely populated country than the US already get around half of their electricity from wind and solar power. While at the same time plan for massive expansion of off shore wind power.



US have just like Denmark have a lot areas like the ocean coasts, the Great Lakes and plains perfect for wind power. While also very sunny areas like deserts perfect for both concentrated solar power plants with thermal storage that can produce electricity on demand and solar panels.

Also that countries and regions with an abundance of renewable energy can export both electricity and hydrogen.

 

bluesmoke

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
22,220
Reaction score
7,939
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The limit would be in the amount of land. We don't have enough in this country to power every household with wind. Each turbine of the size in this story needs a certain amount of space in between the next. If they are too close, they can cause turbulence in the area making them less efficient.


The US is capable of providing the land needed for wind, solar and natural gas to meet 2050 carbon-neutral goals, incl the land necessary to support that scenario of energy production. Most science supports that such a system is much less damaging in terms of CO2 release than petroleum. Plus, it is better for national security that the US frees itself on oil dependency.

With all solution there are problems, trade-offs. We should continue towards wind/solar goals where private enterprise is willing to take us. It's practicable.
 

Artymoon

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
3,957
Reaction score
2,347
Location
U.S.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The US is capable of providing the land needed for wind, solar and natural gas to meet 2050 carbon-neutral goals, incl the land necessary to support that scenario of energy production. Most science supports that such a system is much less damaging in terms of CO2 release than petroleum. Plus, it is better for national security that the US frees itself on oil dependency.

With all solution there are problems, trade-offs. We should continue towards wind/solar goals where private enterprise is willing to take us. It's practicable.
Natural gas sure. Wind and solar would be a supplement to existing grid at best. If you saw my earlier post on NYC's yearly energy consumption alone, you can do the math on acreage needed just to supply that high density, small geographical area. Unless we change how we consume energy or if things become amazingly more efficient, not gonna happen. I do agree that the US needs to free itself from hostile areas providing oil and do more at home.
 
Top Bottom