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‘I Refuse To Live In Fear’ Is Just An Attempt To Excuse Selfish Behavior

Please don't judge. Everybody's situation is different.
When the republican leadership in so many places in america refuses to accept the danger we need to judge them for our safety. Look at south dakota, florida and a number of other states whose governors are doing nothing but supporting the open environment of their states. Our president acts like over two hundred and fifty thousand dead americans from covid is no big thing and he encourages the same from republican governors. Everybody's situation is different but we all have one thing in common. There is a pandemic happening.
 
For months now the whole country has been told to social distance, wear a mask, wash your hands.

And some morons take their "right" to be stupid to court? LOL Only in America!

Let them all get COVID! LOL
And end up wearing a ventilator for a week or two and suffering and wondering if they are going to die. Bet they'll wear a mask after that lesson.
 
The premise of the OP is that it is morally wrong to try to manipulate a persons behavior by using guilt as that tool. That apparently means to Progressives that they should virtue signal and shame anyone who does not agree with the mask mandates . You cant make up this kind of irony lmao
Ya know what other irony you can't make up? People who refuse to wear a mask because of the fake virus that ends up killing them because they won't listen. Now that's ironic.
 
Ya know what other irony you can't make up? People who refuse to wear a mask because of the fake virus that ends up killing them because they won't listen. Now that's ironic.
Yes, they can't refuse to pay their taxes (government tyranny!), so they found another example of 'government tyranny', the tortuous, life-changing and freedom-destroying ignominy of wearing a mask, and latched onto it like a limpet to a rock. If that stupidity kills them I for one won't be mourning idiots.
 
But about what specific "privileges" are you speaking?

I can't lie; I'm horrified by the idea of someone being tied down and vaccinated by force.

I didn't specify any, because I wouldn't be bothered by any removal of privilege or right from people who are unwilling to do their part during a pandemic, to where we see the consequences of their selfishness like we do today.

You're terrified of being vaccinated by force? I'm terrified that, despite doing everything I've been told do during this pandemic, I'm going to go out one day and bring some home some Covid on me, and my 8 year old son, who needs a puffer when he gets a mere cold, is going to die, because of some selfish despicable asshole decided they don't need to do their part. Or maybe it'll be just me. My wife would probably make it, whereas my son and I likely wouldn't....which, if I were the last one standing, would be worse for me... We're all afraid of something, I guess....
 
When the republican leadership in so many places in america refuses to accept the danger we need to judge them for our safety. Look at south dakota, florida and a number of other states whose governors are doing nothing but supporting the open environment of their states. Our president acts like over two hundred and fifty thousand dead americans from covid is no big thing and he encourages the same from republican governors. Everybody's situation is different but we all have one thing in common. There is a pandemic happening.
250,000 did not die from coronavirus. That is a created number used by logging everyone who died after testing positive regardless of their state of health.
 
I didn't specify any, because I wouldn't be bothered by any removal of privilege or right from people who are unwilling to do their part during a pandemic, to where we see the consequences of their selfishness like we do today.

You're terrified of being vaccinated by force? I'm terrified that, despite doing everything I've been told do during this pandemic, I'm going to go out one day and bring some home some Covid on me, and my 8 year old son, who needs a puffer when he gets a mere cold, is going to die, because of some selfish despicable asshole decided they don't need to do their part. Or maybe it'll be just me. My wife would probably make it, whereas my son and I likely wouldn't....which, if I were the last one standing, would be worse for me... We're all afraid of something, I guess....

What I was getting at was how you define "privilege" vs what you consider a "right."

And you're preaching to the choir here. I've been self-isolating since 3-11 because I know that COVID would probably be fatal because of my comorbidities. Worse, I have a younger member of my household who has recently been diagnosed with diabetes, and this is not under control yet, despite moving from just Metformin to Ozempic injections. Morning number was 157, so anybody with blood sugar readings knows how terrifying this is, particularly with blood pressure now deep into stroke territory.
 
Fact 1: We're all living in a pandemic.
Fact 2: You getting sick endangers people around you.
Fact 3: Nobody who hasn't been sick is immune, and we're not even 100% sure about that.

Everyone is in the same boat.
You’re always a danger of some kind to people around you, coronavirus is not dangerous enough to warrant the “you’re being selfish” trope.
 
You’re always a danger of some kind to people around you, coronavirus is not dangerous enough to warrant the “you’re being selfish” trope.

No. COVID is very dangerous to some, and if you're out and about and bring it home, you are responsible.
 
No. COVID is very dangerous to some, and if you're out and about and bring it home, you are responsible.
It’s very dangerous to few people. It’s a risk you consent to by living in society. If you want to stay home then stay home.
 
The premise of the OP is that it is morally wrong to try to manipulate a persons behavior by using guilt as that tool. That apparently means to Progressives that they should virtue signal and shame anyone who does not agree with the mask mandates . You cant make up this kind of irony lmao
Guilt is a valuable took. Ask any parent. It's too bad that so many anti maskers have the mentality of spoiled 5 year olds.
 
Guilt is a valuable took. Ask any parent. It's too bad that so many anti maskers have the mentality of spoiled 5 year olds.
Guilt is a valuable tool when it is actually used for violation of legitimate rules. Not illegitimate ones like mask mandates which have no real world effect.
 
Good thread. It's simply a fact that conservatives and the conservative movement foster an identity of a proud selfish prick. And then when nothing goes their way, they blame the left. Dennis Leary sang it best.

 
250,000 did not die from coronavirus. That is a created number used by logging everyone who died after testing positive regardless of their state of health.
Honestly, I completely disregard most everything you post. You and folks like you are still trying to deny the seriousness of the situation and are most of the reason it keeps spreading. Trump has done wonders for the gop, they now believe almost nothing.
 
250,000 did not die from coronavirus. That is a created number used by logging everyone who died after testing positive regardless of their state of health.

So you are alive with a heart disease and managing it then all of a sudden you get Covid and that causes your heart to go into arrhythmia and you die.
  • Covid caused your stable heart condition to change to a fatal heart attack by straining it. You died from a heart attack caused by Covid.
You get in a car accident and suffer severe injuries but then while you are being treated with antibacterials which compromise your immune system to fight off bacterial infection chance due to your injuries you catch Covid and your compromised immune system can't effectively fight it and you die.
  • So Covid took you from recovering from a stable condition to killing you because a treatment to avoid you being infected and suffering complications lowered your ability to fight the virus. The virus only killed you because your body was injured and the treatment left you vulnerable.
You are now being treated for cancer and your chemo therapy has once again lowered your immune response and you catch Covid and die.
  • Covid again killed you because both cancer and the treatment weakened your ability to fight it off. The cancer helped but Covid spread and killed you faster because of it.
Key point in all of these is that while these other conditions made death more likely or helped cause it the thing that changed them from receiving treatment, recovering or coping with their disease is that they caught Covid and that made their condition worse and killed them. These people could all have lived far longer or even full lives if they had not gotten sick.

Trying to invalidate any case of Covid because it is tied to another condition or several when a patient dies is deceptive. Even if the patient died before symptoms grew severe enough to cause complications it strains the body making other conditions worse.

Any argument saying you shouldn't count multiple condition Covid fatality cases as part of the total is like arguing the following example.
Your car is rammed violently by a semi off the road into a lake and while your injuries from the accident would certainly eventually kill you instead you drown in said lake because you can't work your broken limbs and get out of the mangled car. But when the police get to the scene and see the carnage they simply list you as the guy who drown by driving in a lake.
  • Maybe you could have survived even your injuries if you hadn't been in the lake and gotten treatment. Or maybe if you hadn't been injured you could have swam free and not drown. Or maybe if you hadn't been hit by the semi your condition and circumstances wouldn't have changed for the worse leading to your death.
 
People who refuse to wear a mask when they are around people they don't know are just plain stupid.

And sadly our current leadership has helped to foster those feelings with many uneducated Americans.
The effect of wearing a mask is negligible.
 
So you are alive with a heart disease and managing it then all of a sudden you get Covid and that causes your heart to go into arrhythmia and you die.
  • Covid caused your stable heart condition to change to a fatal heart attack by straining it. You died from a heart attack caused by Covid.
You get in a car accident and suffer severe injuries but then while you are being treated with antibacterials which compromise your immune system to fight off bacterial infection chance due to your injuries you catch Covid and your compromised immune system can't effectively fight it and you die.
  • So Covid took you from recovering from a stable condition to killing you because a treatment to avoid you being infected and suffering complications lowered your ability to fight the virus. The virus only killed you because your body was injured and the treatment left you vulnerable.
You are now being treated for cancer and your chemo therapy has once again lowered your immune response and you catch Covid and die.
  • Covid again killed you because both cancer and the treatment weakened your ability to fight it off. The cancer helped but Covid spread and killed you faster because of it.
Key point in all of these is that while these other conditions made death more likely or helped cause it the thing that changed them from receiving treatment, recovering or coping with their disease is that they caught Covid and that made their condition worse and killed them. These people could all have lived far longer or even full lives if they had not gotten sick.

Trying to invalidate any case of Covid because it is tied to another condition or several when a patient dies is deceptive. Even if the patient died before symptoms grew severe enough to cause complications it strains the body making other conditions worse.

Any argument saying you shouldn't count multiple condition Covid fatality cases as part of the total is like arguing the following example.
Your car is rammed violently by a semi off the road into a lake and while your injuries from the accident would certainly eventually kill you instead you drown in said lake because you can't work your broken limbs and get out of the mangled car. But when the police get to the scene and see the carnage they simply list you as the guy who drown by driving in a lake.
  • Maybe you could have survived even your injuries if you hadn't been in the lake and gotten treatment. Or maybe if you hadn't been injured you could have swam free and not drown. Or maybe if you hadn't been hit by the semi your condition and circumstances wouldn't have changed for the worse leading to your death.
It can also be argued that if the person took better care of themselves and did not have those underlying conditions, contracting the virus would not of killed them. The virus is not nearly as lethal as some are pretending.
 
It can also be argued that if the person took better care of themselves and did not have those underlying conditions, contracting the virus would not of killed them. The virus is not nearly as lethal as some are pretending.

By that logic then you could argue that people should either always be healthy or we have no responsibility to help save them when their condition gets worse and should view them as if they were somehow actively to blame for or seeking their own deaths by either being born with a condition, developing one for a variety of reasons or just not beating odds stacked against them because you openly claim this less lethal virus only killed them because they either were at fault or were too weak and at risk.
  • Have a congenital heart problem? Too bad you get to die when you catch a cold that triggers your heart attack because it wasn't that lethal and any healthy person would have survived so it was obvious that your sudden turn was just your heart and not what may or may not have changed circumstances to cause it to fail suddenly when signs point to you living with treatment.
  • Smoke cigarettes every day and develop emphysema? Too bad you get to die when again a common cold leads to pneumonia which would have been fine if you had just not messed up your body. Why didn't you with every waking breath know from the start of your life to treat your body as a temple and never ever do anything since you should be born with perfect knowledge and understanding of the consequences of every action like every human ever born.
  • Born genetically perfect. Too bad you accidentally bumped your chest into your lovers shoulder and stopped your heart with just the right impact which can happen to anyone and is so insanely rare we might as well let you die because you have to be a fluke. You know we probably shouldn't write it down its so rare and maybe we should just list the cause as unknown considering that no one would believe it and we don't want them to panic at the thought of the danger of this not that lethal circumstance.
  • Or again you are born perfectly healthy. Too bad you caught chicken pox and had a bad case which killed you. I mean look at you dying from a disease people often infect their kids with to trigger herd immunity and you had to go and futz it all up by just not beating the incredibly small odds of death.
You are also arguing that people who don't want to die and are less healthy than you but stable are just acceptable casualties so you can feel safer by artificially lowering the numbers of deaths caused by a pandemic that can more easily trigger their deaths.
  • I mean say five healthy people of varying ages die and three at risk people die because the odds were against them all and somehow the three sick people who got sicker and died are more at fault because they could not predict a pandemic nor avoid catching a highly contagious virus that doesn't kill healthy people as often?
Lets just be honest here. Healthy people die of Covid. Seemingly healthy people die of Covid. Young people die of Covid. Old people die of Covid. Sick people die of Covid. The only differences between them and the people that live are circumstances and estimated odds that don't always work out for every individual in any group that catches it.

These people are mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers, grandparents, babies, humans all. None of them went out and got Covid on purpose and those struggling before with a condition are no less dead for catching Covid and dying from complications.

As for those who recover and then die this disease has been reported to have lasting permanent effects on sufferers health such as weakened hearts, damage to the brain, lung issues and even after recovery and immunity is not guaranteed after infection in all cases. A person dying after may only die due to the stress of barely fighting off Covid before their body gives in. Covid still killed them it just died before they did.
 
By that logic then you could argue that people should either always be healthy or we have no responsibility to help save them when their condition gets worse and should view them as if they were somehow actively to blame for or seeking their own deaths by either being born with a condition, developing one for a variety of reasons or just not beating odds stacked against them because you openly claim this less lethal virus only killed them because they either were at fault or were too weak and at risk.
  • Have a congenital heart problem? Too bad you get to die when you catch a cold that triggers your heart attack because it wasn't that lethal and any healthy person would have survived so it was obvious that your sudden turn was just your heart and not what may or may not have changed circumstances to cause it to fail suddenly when signs point to you living with treatment.
  • Smoke cigarettes every day and develop emphysema? Too bad you get to die when again a common cold leads to pneumonia which would have been fine if you had just not messed up your body. Why didn't you with every waking breath know from the start of your life to treat your body as a temple and never ever do anything since you should be born with perfect knowledge and understanding of the consequences of every action like every human ever born.
  • Born genetically perfect. Too bad you accidentally bumped your chest into your lovers shoulder and stopped your heart with just the right impact which can happen to anyone and is so insanely rare we might as well let you die because you have to be a fluke. You know we probably shouldn't write it down its so rare and maybe we should just list the cause as unknown considering that no one would believe it and we don't want them to panic at the thought of the danger of this not that lethal circumstance.
  • Or again you are born perfectly healthy. Too bad you caught chicken pox and had a bad case which killed you. I mean look at you dying from a disease people often infect their kids with to trigger herd immunity and you had to go and futz it all up by just not beating the incredibly small odds of death.
You are also arguing that people who don't want to die and are less healthy than you but stable are just acceptable casualties so you can feel safer by artificially lowering the numbers of deaths caused by a pandemic that can more easily trigger their deaths.
  • I mean say five healthy people of varying ages die and three at risk people die because the odds were against them all and somehow the three sick people who got sicker and died are more at fault because they could not predict a pandemic nor avoid catching a highly contagious virus that doesn't kill healthy people as often?
Lets just be honest here. Healthy people die of Covid. Seemingly healthy people die of Covid. Young people die of Covid. Old people die of Covid. Sick people die of Covid. The only differences between them and the people that live are circumstances and estimated odds that don't always work out for every individual in any group that catches it.

These people are mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers, grandparents, babies, humans all. None of them went out and got Covid on purpose and those struggling before with a condition are no less dead for catching Covid and dying from complications.

As for those who recover and then die this disease has been reported to have lasting permanent effects on sufferers health such as weakened hearts, damage to the brain, lung issues and even after recovery and immunity is not guaranteed after infection in all cases. A person dying after may only die due to the stress of barely fighting off Covid before their body gives in. Covid still killed them it just died before they did.

Thats not what i was saying or even implying. What was being debated is how lethal the virus is and the accuracy of the death toll that the virus is responsible for.

Imo the closest estimate we can get is look at how many people died this time last year and compare it to now, operating off the general assumption that the increases in fatalaties can be reasonably assumed as covid be mostly the cause for the increase.
 
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