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‘I literally lost organs:’ Why detransitioned teens regret changing genders

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They are sick of you and your ilk and the damage you are doing to the gay community with your assaults on children.


Those are some serious accusations. Care to back them up, or are you just ignorantly flinging hate speech again?
 
Hmmm... so you're saying people who are free to make their own choices have to live with their own decisions, rather than decisions made for them by the state?

Your silly article might as well say...

Does that mean we should eliminate the 2nd Amendment?

Or

Does that mean we should eliminate the freedom of speech?
I think it's more about but allowing people to take advantage of the vulnerable.

Kind of like laws banning the sale of leotril as cancer treatment
 
I said it once, and i'll say it again: Minors should not be subjected to life-altering, irreversible transgender surgical procedures & not given hormone blockers when their effects on minors are still under scrutiny. It is not transphobic, despite what some say. It is common sense. If they are having "identity issues", then parents should invest in shrinks until their kid is over the age of 18 and is 100% sure he/she wants to cut certain parts off or whatever.
They banned conversion therapy for gay youth. That's not as damaging as mastectomy.
 
Gay people see right through people like you.

I don't have to say a freaking word at all for that matter.

They know what you are up to.
How do gay people see through me and what are they seeing? What am I supposed to be up to? Who is telling you this?

You yourself stated a while back that minors should have trans treatment available to save their lives.

Care to deny it?
It is available to them at their choice and at the discretion of experienced Drs and therapists after a through diagnosis. Nobody is saying that hormones and blockers should be available to any teen like Tic-Tacs at 7-11.
 
It's about grooming. People advocating for grooming makes the LGBT look bad.
Grooming to be LGBT is impossible. Who were you groomed by to be a gay man?

I have been very clear that a through diagnosis and an in-depth explanation of the process and the risks by experienced Drs and therapist(s)(preferably a PhD psychologist) is mandatory. You make it seems like there is a shady non-binary person or a drag queen roaming playgrounds after school in a pink Burberry trench coat and offering teens estradiol tabs for the asking. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Teaching tolerance and respect for trans people or LGBT people in general does not groom teens to be LGBT themselves. You should know that because of your own experience, unless someone groomed you a few decades ago. If someone is heterosexual they were born that way and it cannot be changed by this supposed grooming. John Money tried to change David Reimer's gender identity by far more than "grooming" and it didn't happen. Conversion therapy and reparative therapy also do not work and it is far more immersive and aggressive than the supposed grooming that you and other conservatives are yelling at the clouds about.

The problem is you and others who have bought in the supposed transgender activists nonsense that is being pushed by the conservative media because they need a new boogeyman for the unwashed Trumpist rubes to deflect from the lack of effective domestic GOP polices and the investigation of the 06 January 2021 attempted coup. 30 years ago is the the supposed gay agenda that had the social conservatives clutching their fake pearls. 10 years ago it was gay marriage that was the boogeyman. Now its trans people that is the boogeyman du jour. It's amazing that you as a gay man haven't figured this out.
 
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Yeah and people who sucks conversion therapy perceived it is helpful too.
No clue what your were trying to say.
amateur psychology is up no value to anyone.
That was gibberish.
but this isn't medical assistance it's injury and experimentation.
The people going to the doctors for that care consider it medical assistance. Would we be better risking them injuring themselves by experimenting with postponing that care longer? That's the question at hand.

Like you said you haven't seen the data so just go ahead and not knowing anything about it. That's completely unethical.
What would be unethical is taking a position on this without seeing the evidence.
I think you're just saying this because someone's threatening your stupid little virtue signal.
I think you're saying that because you're a vile right-wing troll who enjoys seeing people suffer, and you're pissed off whenever you can see someone is more virtuous than you.
You're not protecting people by letting so-called doctors do medical experiments on them.
In this case we aren't talking about medical experiments. We're talking about gender confirmation surgeries, right?
 
lie to yourself all you need to. I'm not going to stop saying reality to you because you need to hear it.
You didn't answer the question, little one.
imagine yourself in their shoes.
That's what I'm doing. I'm picturing a situation where, for years, I've wanted a surgery to help bring my body more in line with how I'd like it to look, but I'm being told no, by someone who thinks he knows my mind better than I do. That's certainly not a position I'd ever want to be in. How about you?

So, since I wouldn't want someone else doing that to me, the golden rule says I shouldn't be doing it to others.... at least without some strong evidence to support the idea they really don't know their own minds. I haven't seen such evidence.

I'm not the one dead set on protecting a virtue signal.
That's EXACTLY what you're dead set on. Your notion of virtue is a very odd one, but you certainly see yourself as behaving virtuously here, and desperately wish we saw it the same way.

Don't talk to me about ethics ....
I understand you want to be able to tell others what they can and can't talk about, just as you want to be able to tell them what they can and can't do with their own bodies. But, I do not give you that power. If you don't want to hear me talk about ethics, you can avoid reading what I write. It's YOUR job to protect your delicate feelings, not mine.
 
No clue what your were trying to say.

That was gibberish.

The people going to the doctors for that care consider it medical assistance. Would we be better risking them injuring themselves by experimenting with postponing that care longer? That's the question at hand.


What would be unethical is taking a position on this without seeing the evidence.

I think you're saying that because you're a vile right-wing troll who enjoys seeing people suffer, and you're pissed off whenever you can see someone is more virtuous than you.

In this case we aren't talking about medical experiments. We're talking about gender confirmation surgeries, right?
You didn't answer the question, little one.

That's what I'm doing. I'm picturing a situation where, for years, I've wanted a surgery to help bring my body more in line with how I'd like it to look, but I'm being told no, by someone who thinks he knows my mind better than I do. That's certainly not a position I'd ever want to be in. How about you?

So, since I wouldn't want someone else doing that to me, the golden rule says I shouldn't be doing it to others.... at least without some strong evidence to support the idea they really don't know their own minds. I haven't seen such evidence.


That's EXACTLY what you're dead set on. Your notion of virtue is a very odd one, but you certainly see yourself as behaving virtuously here, and desperately wish we saw it the same way.


I understand you want to be able to tell others what they can and can't talk about, just as you want to be able to tell them what they can and can't do with their own bodies. But, I do not give you that power. If you don't want to hear me talk about ethics, you can avoid reading what I write. It's YOUR job to protect your delicate feelings, not mine.
You have no concept of ethics all you're interested in is preserving your virtue signal.

I cannot find common ground with you so there is no value in discussing this any further.
 
You've misunderstood the argument..... deliberately, of course.

Nobody has argued that there must be instant affirmation of everyone or they'll die. We're talking here about a practical question like the situation in the top post: how to deal with someone who has wanted to transition for years, but still isn't an adult.

Are we better off allowing medical transition to start at that point, or postponing it further? I don't know the answer to that. I can see it going either way.

Maybe the data tell us that even after three years, there's still a pretty significant chance a minor's identity is evolving enough that he or she will come to regret any permanent steps taken towards transition. Maybe the data says that any negative psychological impact from further waiting would be minor (such impacts including a lifetime of living in a body that conforms less with internal sense of gender than it would if transition had started earlier). And, if so, then delay sounds good. Or maybe the data says that nearly nobody who has wanted to transition for that long comes to regret it, while suicide rates among those who delay transition are much higher than those who don't, such that delay comes with a big body count.

I seriously don't know what the data say on this. I'm open minded about it. But I'm leaning to the left in part because those who are arguing on that side seem to genuinely care about the well-being of trans people, whereas those on the right tend to portray them as defective, as part of an ongoing political culture war.

You are miscategorizing transgender skeptics. Some of us genuinely care about the children who are being drugged and damaged. Some of us are lifelong liberals who see the political "left" as having become extreme and deranged. There are feminists who care about the safety of women and of children, who dare to speak up about this and risk being cancelled.

And is there really such a thing as a woman living in a man's body and vice versa? More likely it's a woman with strong preferences for the things our society has labeled as male, and vice versa. If your personality does not fit the culture's norms you may feel frustrated. You would need and deserve compassion from parents and friends. But maybe you would NOT need drugs and surgeries.
 
I cannot find common ground with you
That's because you're committed to a right-wing virtue signal, whereas I'm open minded and looking for evidence that would guide us towards policies that would do the most good.
 
You are miscategorizing transgender skeptics. Some of us genuinely care about the children who are being drugged and damaged. Some of us are lifelong liberals who see the political "left" as having become extreme and deranged. There are feminists who care about the safety of women and of children, who dare to speak up about this and risk being cancelled.

And is there really such a thing as a woman living in a man's body and vice versa? More likely it's a woman with strong preferences for the things our society has labeled as male, and vice versa. If your personality does not fit the culture's norms you may feel frustrated. You would need and deserve compassion from parents and friends. But maybe you would NOT need drugs and surgeries.
It's a fad. And there are people skeptical of it and I think that's important. I remember a few years back it was a fad to diagnose everyone with ADHD and give them speed as children. And now all of a sudden we have an opioid issue that's almost like we saw this coming.

I don't think this one is just going to die out and become a festering drug problem later on in life I think there are going to be people that are furious and rightfully so. For being taken advantage of when they were young and vulnerable.

The Virtue signalers really don't give half a shit about any trans people (if they did they'd listen to them and we have a transgender person that posts here) to show how sophisticated they are and to win enlightenment points is to tell all the boobs and skeptics how stupid then ignorant they are and compare them to segregationists and what not.

I would say it's not worth debating these people other than the show other people how to debate and how do you stand up for what they believe in and not be manipulated by that standard knee jerk response where you're denying someone's virtue and they accuse you of hating somebody you're having some pathological fear of them.
 
You are miscategorizing transgender skeptics. Some of us genuinely care about the children who are being drugged and damaged.
Yes, I'd imagine some genuinely care. However, I'm struck by what a large share of those I meet who also happen to be the people telling women they're not allowed to terminate unwanted pregnancies, and who fought hard to try to keep gay people from having equal access to marriage laws, and who want employers to be able to refuse to cover contraception in employee health insurance, etc. There's a whole lot of overlap between those various groups, which suggests that while some transgender "skeptics" may have their hearts in the right place (JK Rowling?) most are just the usual reactionaries trying to enforce their own old fashioned notions about sexuality on other people, with the transgender fight just being the latest battlefield of their ongoing war with the culture.

And is there really such a thing as a woman living in a man's body and vice versa? More likely it's a woman with strong preferences for the things our society has labeled as male, and vice versa. If your personality does not fit the culture's norms you may feel frustrated. You would need and deserve compassion from parents and friends. But maybe you would NOT need drugs and surgeries.
Quite possibly you wouldn't. I would be inclined to defer to you on the topic, since it's your mind, and your body, and you're best positioned to know what will make your happy. If you don't want drugs and surgeries, by all means don't get them. If you do want them, who am I to tell you no?
 
That's because you're
You can make up whatever coping mechanism that you require.

But I'm capable of speaking for myself. The reason why I take pause before we go ahead and cripple an injure people when they're 14 or 15 years old is because I care about people not ideas.
 
Yes, I'd imagine some genuinely care.
It isn't so much about that you care it's more about what you care about.

You care about ideas particularly transitioning people to confound the evil conservatives I care about people the victims of such insanity this is an a measurable demographic and it's growing you can ignore it or you can address it
 
So explain why there are detrans people.
The process isn't perfect but the success rate is well above 90%. Nothing in medicine is perfect. People occasionally die during childbirth, having the tonsils or appendix removed. There is always risks to be managed. There are many times when the risks are explained to someone and then you sign a statement that it was explained to you and you wish to go forward because you believe that the rewards outweigh the risks. There are always risks in any medication or procedures. Have you read the back of a bottle of Tylenol or even Tums lately? Every time you get a prescription filled, if it is birth control, high blood pressure medication or just an antibiotic, there is a mandatory warning sheet that is stapled to the bag with a list of possible interactions to watch out for. That same piece of paper is included with a Covid19 vaccination. The risks are explained to every patient at the start and periodically during the process during transgender care. Nobody is forced to transition, ever. If you think that your Dr or a therapist of any sort is pushing you against your wishes or what you are comfortable with then speak up. If that doesn't help then leave and find a different provider.

Conservatives make it sound like teens and pre-teens are being shanghaied from the playground and forced to transition by drag queens, nonbinary members of Antifa or any other asinine fictional character the Fox News can dream up.


The current transgender process of hormones and then surgery if desired has only slightly changed in the past 50/60 years because it works quite effectively if someone is trans and seeks to live as their gender identity. This is a 2+ year process at minimum with many safeguards built in. It doesn't happen in 90 days, despite what some idiot may have convinced you.
 
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The only thing you fear is having an encounter with a transgendered person.
... yeah, I fear that. Gosh, you got me. (does someone else want to inform this one how badly he just stepped in it?)
This type of response demonstrates how algorithmic and unthinking the left's arguments are. It reminds me of the radio debate between a Black woman (a CNN analyst) and Black man (David Webb) and the man was disagreeing with her and she accused him of having white privilege, not knowing he was Black (because of it being a radio show).
 
The process isn't perfect
And people harm to buy it or just collateral damage in your opinion?

There suffering doesn't matter because you can't use them for your virtue signals?

This is why you're not an ally. You don't give a shit about people. If you did you would say maybe we need to take a few steps more to ensure that people need this very experimental treatment.

The only thing that matters to you is ideas I don't even know a trans person.
 
How do you you effectively treat gender dysphoria without removing those parts that the patient doesn't want anyhow? Trans female do not want their penis and testicles. This is why they seek hormonal transition and then orchiectomy and/or GCS. The exsitance of those organs is a source of gender dysphoria. They hate them. Trans guys dont want their breasts, uterus and ovaries. Trans females females tuck to hide their penis. Trans guys wear a binder to hide their breast and proudly show off the scares of their mastectomy.


That desperate desire for hormonal transition and removal is the core idea of what makes then transgender. How do you not see this?

All you ever do on this topic is repeat the transgender activists' narrative. You never show any evidence.
 
That's not how it's perceived by those seeking the help. They think that by denying them that medical care, you're doing them harm, by forcing them to live with a body that is badly out of line with their conception of their own gender.

Yes, and the argument here is it would be unethical to deny those people the medical assistance they want, simply because it creeps out your conservative sexual ideas.

Probably most of us are forced to live with a body that does not conform to our preferences.
 
I'm not pushing anything on anyone.
You aren't. Grifters that stand to make hundreds of thousands of dollars off of somebody are.

If they weren't they would have taken the steps to make sure they aren't abusing people.


The first rule of ethics is, first Do no harm.
 
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