‘He’s a small child’: Utah police shot a 13-year-old autistic boy after his mother called 911 for he

[ElChupacabra]

The police are not your friends.

If someone breaks into my house, I'm sinking or swimming on my own. No way do I trust a bunch of trigger-happy easily-scared people brimming with immunity from suit to burst into my house and be able to tell the difference between me, defending myself, and a robber I'm struggling with.

The worst part is how you get treated in this regard might depend on your race/ethnicity.

 

[Citizen]

Look, this kid appears to be white. Since there is no racial reason to flip out about it can we at least wait until the investigation is done before we start flinging more poo at all cops?

Who said all cops. We are and have always been talking about bad cops. Cops who shot or suffocate mentally ill people are not good cops

 

[Citizen]

The police said they were called to the scene on reports of an armed individual with mental issues threatening people with a weapon.

That’s BS. The mother called and told them he was not armed

 

[Citizen]

The mom... you know, the one that called the police... has an entirely different story and it is very unlikely she picked up the phone, dialed 911, and said my special needs son is "an armed individual with mental issues threatening people with a weapon."

Police always lie in their report when they do wrong. Most times they get away with it

 

[Citizen]

Another reason to question why we as a society should make allowances for free range mental defects who are a danger to themselves and others. If a person cannot function in society then they should be institutionalized or at least require 24/7 supervision of a guardian.

Who’s gonna pay for that

 

[Plasmaball]

Evidence of a cure that doesn’t exist?

Nope.

 

[Lursa]

I don’t care if he had mental issues. It doesn’t make him less dangerous. He was reported as threatening people with a weapon. The solution is not to let him run away to find more victims he can slice open or shoot while the police are trying to catch up.

Still wondering:

You didnt answer the questions. Please try again:

...they dont at least CONFIRM his being an imminent lethal threat? Dont confirm seeing a weapon?​

At what point did that become acceptable?​

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Napoleon]

Still wondering:

You didnt answer the questions. Please try again:

...they dont at least CONFIRM his being an imminent lethal threat? Dont confirm seeing a weapon?​

At what point did that become acceptable?​

It’s always been acceptable. Suspects don’t just get to run away.

 

[Lursa]

How do I know? Because scientists haven’t even isolated the cause of autism let alone a cure for it. The research is leaning heavily towards genetics and we don’t have the technology to ethically make genetic corrections.

Sources?

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Lursa]

Still interested in answers here...the legal aspects of your 'solution.'

The best start would be to institutionalize mental defects who pose a danger to society. They can receive the care and supervision they need without the risk to public safety.

At what point do mentally ill people lose their Constitutional rights? What probable cause are we talking about here? What due process?

If they are institutionalized, is it permanent? If not, what are the criteria to release them? Is the state then liable if they harm someone when released? Or just keep them locked up forever?

How is that determined? Esp. without prior violence?

What happens to their privacy? (4th and 14th Amendments). What about their probable cause and due process?

Is the state a qualified mind reader?

And if a predisposition to violence is the criteria to lock people up, we're back to convicted road ragers, domestic abusers, people with assault convictions, etc. Lock 'em all up? Never ever release violent criminals (assault, arson, robbery, etc).?They've all proven a predisposition to violence, a danger to the public.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Lursa]

It’s always been acceptable. Suspects don’t just get to run away.

No, it's not. That is not true. First, they could catch a 13 yr old boy.

And second, they cannot unless there is a "reasonable" expectation that the suspect is an immediate danger to the public.

Again...without seeing a weapon...a running 13 yr old is not reasonably going to harm the public, esp. before they catch him.

Cops cannot kill anyone escaping. :roll: Example: The cop in South Carolina that shot the unarmed black guy running away because he owed child support was charged. Example: not continuing car chases because of the risk to other drivers. Cops have the license plate, they just track them down later.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[PoS]

The worst part is how you get treated in this regard might depend on your race/ethnicity.

The kid was white, yet they shot him anyway.

 

[roguenuke]

It’s always been acceptable. Suspects don’t just get to run away.

Tennessee v Garner. If they arent an imminent threat to the public they do, unless the cops stop them with other than lethal force, which doesn't mean shooting the person and luckily they didn't die.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[roguenuke]

Sources?

Its a red herring. Autism is likely genetic but that doesnt mean a darn thing in this discussion because a) not all autistic people behave the same and b) they can still be taught, it just takes different approaches and methods for most because their brains tend to operate using different pathways than what we consider normal people as using.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[snakestretcher]

Mental facilities still exist and only need expanded capacity. The wants of disabled people don’t trump public safety. Society has paid a heavy price for trying it a different way and it’s not worth continuing. This do-gooderism has done nothing but leave a pile of dead bodies in its wake. Victims of disabled people who never should have been allowed to remain in society.

This sounds like a Nazi eugenics fan speaking. Why not just kill-off all those with mental health issues and save money. Problem solved, right?

 

[PoS]

Social services is Marxism, remember?

The boy was having a mental episode and the mother called the police to help her get him to the hospital.

Social services for the mentally ill is almost non-existent in this country...it's more like, "here, take a pill and call us in a week."

Well if the choice is between getting your kids shot or dismissing them with a pill, then it might have been better if they depended on themselves instead, like calling up friends and relatives to help calm the kid down instead of going to the authorities.

 

[Tettsuo]

It’s always been acceptable. Suspects don’t just get to run away.

The kid wasn't a suspect in a crime. Why did you call him that?

 

[dixon01767]

You could run around all day long talking about how much you hate minorities, especially black people and you STILL can't just say "oh well, cops aren't hurting and killing us white guys".
Sorry, not true...they're killing or seriously maiming MORE black guys more often for lesser stuff but it's clear that they'll shoot anyone they want for no reason.

Actually, more whites are killed by the police than blacks.

 

[ASHES]

The kid wasn't a suspect in a crime. Why did you call him that?

Original police reports state they were called for a mentally disturbed minor with a weapon. We will see when the 911 calls are released. If that is true, he was considered a suspect engaged in criminal activity. I still don't see how they get from that to shooting the kid though. I can't imagine what facts that haven't been released would exonerate them.

 

[Moot]

Well if the choice is between getting your kids shot or dismissing them with a pill, then it might have been better if they depended on themselves instead, like calling up friends and relatives to help calm the kid down instead of going to the authorities.

Well, if the pills worked then they wouldn't be having a mental episode, now would they?

I knew a woman, she was an attractive, active, vibrant 84 year old grandmother. She had an 21 year old grandson with schizophrenia and his parents couldn't handle him...and the mental facilities didn't have room for him...so they called the police to have them put him jail for a few days until he stabilized...but they refused. So they sent him to stay with his grandmother. The first night that he stayed with her he stabbed over 100 times with a kitchen knife and then gutted and disemboweled her. The pills didn't work.

Elderly Utah woman savagely stabbed 111 times by grandson - New York Daily News

And then just a few months ago, an elderly man that lived in small house behind a friend of mine...his mentally ill grandson stabbed him and set his house on fire.,,

Grandson arrested on suspicion of murder in SLC house fire

The point is...family and friends aren't equipped to handle the mentally ill.

 

[Torus34]

Once all of the posturing by the usual people is set aside, there should be no reason to find fault with the following statement.

This was an instance in which the money spent on police would have been better spent on people specifically trained to handle those with issues such as the victim of the shooting.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

 

[dixon01767]

Original police reports state they were called for a mentally disturbed minor with a weapon. We will see when the 911 calls are released. If that is true, he was considered a suspect engaged in criminal activity. I still don't see how they get from that to shooting the kid though. I can't imagine what facts that haven't been released would exonerate them.

Everyone's too busy dealing with the other more pressing problem of Police shooting people because they are black, to deal with the real problem of the police shooting people because they have a problem with the overuse of force.
Blacks are 13% of the population, but 2.4 times as likely to engage in violent crime and so end up being 26% of the victims of police shootings. Just as one would expect in a perfectly colorblind society. But this massive propaganda campaign has convinced half the country that cops shoot more blacks because they are racist.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Actually, more whites are killed by the police than blacks.

And the fact that there are simply more white people didn't occur to you I guess, but it still doesn't change the fact that blacks are killed at a higher ratio, more often on average, per capita and per traffic stop, despite the fact that there simply happens to be more white people than blacks.

So what was your point? I ask because this autistic kid is white, Daniel Shavers was white, and if you don't think there's been a fundamental shift in the way police operate in the last few years, you are not paying attention, because not only has there been, they're actually PROUD of it.

Training Officers to Shoot First, and He Will Answer Questions Later

 

[D_NATURED]

Re: ‘He’s a small child’: Utah police shot a 13-year-old autistic boy after his mother called 911 fo

do some research ... it wasn't the GOP that defunded mental health.

U01: Ronald Reagan and the Federal Deinstitutionalization of Mentally Ill Patients | PSY 833: Ethics and Leadership (Wheeler)

You should follow your own advice. Here's a hint, though, if a party does something inhuman or cruel to save the rich a few pennies, it's ALWAYS the repubs.

 

[Thom Paine]

Re: ‘He’s a small child’: Utah police shot a 13-year-old autistic boy after his mother called

U01: Ronald Reagan and the Federal Deinstitutionalization of Mentally Ill Patients | PSY 833: Ethics and Leadership (Wheeler)

You should follow your own advice. Here's a hint, though, if a party does something inhuman or cruel to save the rich a few pennies, it's ALWAYS the repubs.

:doh
That's nice.... I and a few others were discussing what lead to that. :roll:
feel free to share your partisan bs with someone else.
create a day worth living ...