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‘Boilerplate Doesn’t Cut It’: Judge Finds Donald Trump in Contempt of Court for Flouting an Order to Comply with Letitia James’ Subpoena

Chomsky said:
Not to Trump.
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Over time, it will add up. And, if that doesn't have an effect, I can see the venality being raised. I can also see property being seized for non-payment.
 
RAMOSS said:
Over time, it will add up. And, if that doesn't have an effect, I can see the venality being raised. I can also see property being seized for non-payment.
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Yeah, judges don't just shrug their shoulders and let you pay fines for eternity. This is more of a warning shot. Penalties can and will increase until compliance is achieved, and that will eventually include Trump behind bars.
 
dcsports said:
Trump will probably appeal, or submit a much more detailed, 'non boilerplate' response, which documents their efforts to search for the requested documents. I will be curious to see the judge's actual ruling, when it's available.

Given Trump's response that he doesn't have the documents requested, it's not clear what James hopes to gain by continuing down this rabbit hole. The response was that Trump (the person) doesn't have custody of the documents she is looking for, and that she should ask the Trump Organization (the business) for these documents. It makes sense that The Trump Organization in New York would maintain the detailed records she's looking for. The organization maintains hundreds of properties. Trump (the person) probably never even looked at the underlying documentation for the handful of properties she's looking into, and certainly wouldn't have kept personal copies. The logical step would be for her to subpoena the Trump Organization (the business), and get them to commit to a response. If they don't produce them, then you take both back to the judge.


thehill.com

Judge holds Trump in contempt for failing to comply with NY AG subpoena

A New York state judge on Monday found former President Trump in contempt of court for not turning over documents after he was ordered to comply with a subpoena from the New York attorney general&#…
thehill.com thehill.com
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An interesting difference between the US courts and the Canadian courts is that, in Canada, the "Sheriffs" are still considered to be a part of the COURT system (rather than the police system) and thus judges have the authority to order "Sheriffs" to arrest persons and bring them before the court.

I once had an amusing interchange with an RCMP Staff Sergeant (and if you know anything about how slow the promotion and how much authority is given to the non-commissioned ranks of the RCMP is you would understand that that is [roughly] the equivalent of a US police department Captain [in a major city] or Chief of Police [in a small town] when I presented him with a court order that ordered "All Peace Officers within the jurisdiction of this Court to ..." and he tried to tell me that members of the RCMP were not "peace officers" and, therefore, he didn't have to comply with the court order. I told him that I could return in less than two hours with a revised court order that named him specifically (plus all RCMP members under his command), AND directed him personally to appear before the issuing judge at 10 a.m. the next day to show cause why he should not be found in contempt of court for his refusal to comply with the court order. It didn't surprise me in the least when he decided that he would make two RCMP members available to me in order to assist in the execution of the court order AND do so within 20 minutes.

IOW - In Canada people don't mess about with court orders (even if they don't like them) AND the courts don't waste a whole lot of time in delays when people DO mess about with court orders that they don't like.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
An interesting difference between the US courts and the Canadian courts is that, in Canada, the "Sheriffs" are still considered to be a part of the COURT system (rather than the police system) and thus judges have the authority to order "Sheriffs" to arrest persons and bring them before the court.

I once had an amusing interchange with an RCMP Staff Sergeant (and if you know anything about how slow the promotion and how much authority is given to the non-commissioned ranks of the RCMP is you would understand that that is [roughly] the equivalent of a US police department Captain [in a major city] or Chief of Police [in a small town] when I presented him with a court order that ordered "All Peace Officers within the jurisdiction of this Court to ..." and he tried to tell me that members of the RCMP were not "peace officers" and, therefore, he didn't have to comply with the court order. I told him that I could return in less than two hours with a revised court order that named him specifically (plus all RCMP members under his command), AND directed him personally to appear before the issuing judge at 10 a.m. the next day to show cause why he should not be found in contempt of court for his refusal to comply with the court order. It didn't surprise me in the least when he decided that he would make two RCMP members available to me in order to assist in the execution of the court order AND do so within 20 minutes.

IOW - In Canada people don't mess about with court orders (even if they don't like them) AND the courts don't waste a whole lot of time in delays when people DO mess about with court orders that they don't like.
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Judges in the US can order someone arrested as well... but there needs to be a really good reason for doing so.

Keep in mind that this is a civil case, not a criminal one. Trump is also stating that he did comply - It appears (from the little real information in the article) that the judge wanted more detail in the response than a simple 'we looked for the documents but did not find any'.

My personal issue here is more with the reporting. We're left with the information in the article - which is probably a summary of a summary by a reporter that doesn't really understand the issue - and is biased. They really should have included the judge's order. I think you would probably agree that an article like this is often not a complete picture of the actual ruling from the court.
 
dcsports said:
Judges in the US can order someone arrested as well... but there needs to be a really good reason for doing so.
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Judges in the US, indeed, CAN order someone arrested - but they have no means of actually having that order carried out if the "independent" police forces refuse to comply.

Under "The British System" the police forces are "officers of the court" and NOT "officers of the state". The difference is subtle, but important.
dcsports said:
Keep in mind that this is a civil case, not a criminal one. Trump is also stating that he did comply - It appears (from the little real information in the article) that the judge wanted more detail in the response than a simple 'we looked for the documents but did not find any'.
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The statement "I looked but didn't find any." is true whether the person [1] looked in only one of their desk drawers and didn't find any or [2] conducted a full records search and didn't find any.

The second is very likely to convince the court that the person HAS complied as far as possible with the court order. The first isn't sufficient to convince anyone with more active intelligence than three day old road kill that the person has complied as far as possible with the court order.

The court is entitled to know where on the scale between [1] and [2] the person's efforts fell.
dcsports said:
My personal issue here is more with the reporting. We're left with the information in the article - which is probably a summary of a summary by a reporter that doesn't really understand the issue - and is biased. They really should have included the judge's order. I think you would probably agree that an article like this is often not a complete picture of the actual ruling from the court.
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True. What makes it into "the news" very frequently doesn't give enough of the whole picture to form a valid opinion.
 
dcsports said:
Judges in the US can order someone arrested as well... but there needs to be a really good reason for doing so.

Keep in mind that this is a civil case, not a criminal one. Trump is also stating that he did comply - It appears (from the little real information in the article) that the judge wanted more detail in the response than a simple 'we looked for the documents but did not find any'.

My personal issue here is more with the reporting. We're left with the information in the article - which is probably a summary of a summary by a reporter that doesn't really understand the issue - and is biased. They really should have included the judge's order. I think you would probably agree that an article like this is often not a complete picture of the actual ruling from the court.
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The written order comes out today but it appears the judge agreed with NYAG's motion which you can read here.

The subpoena requested compliance by March 3, which was extended to March 31 with NYAG's permission and Trump's agreement to accommodate Trump and his team in preparing the requested information. Trump waited until March 31, then filed a motion objecting to the subpoena requests, which he should have raised prior to the order for the documents to be requested was made (i.e. at the February 17 hearing where it was argued).

Additionally, he tried claiming that he doesn't have any responsive documents in his "possession or custody" and claims that they are with the Trump Organization, not himself personally. However, the subpoena also requested documents in his "control" (which he omitted in his March 31 complaint). Further, the subpoena requested that, should the documents be in the possession / custody of someone else, that he must promptly identify who that is.

And then he basically said that he'll have them ready when he has them ready. Which is also a violation of the court order.

So in typical Trump fashion, he's just trying to game the system. Unfortunately you can't game the legal system like that. So now he's paying.
 
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dcsports said:
Judges in the US can order someone arrested as well... but there needs to be a really good reason for doing so.

Keep in mind that this is a civil case, not a criminal one. Trump is also stating that he did comply - It appears (from the little real information in the article) that the judge wanted more detail in the response than a simple 'we looked for the documents but did not find any'.

My personal issue here is more with the reporting. We're left with the information in the article - which is probably a summary of a summary by a reporter that doesn't really understand the issue - and is biased. They really should have included the judge's order. I think you would probably agree that an article like this is often not a complete picture of the actual ruling from the court.
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The order is on the docket. The judge agreed with NYAG's motion and basically said what I said above.

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dcsports said:
So... just what I said. The judge wanted more detail about how the search was conducted.

View attachment 67387648
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Yes, and what I said, that Trump had no basis to object to the subpoena on March 31, when he already agreed to the subpoena in February and said he would provide the requisite documents by then.
 
Liberal7360 said:
The judge held trump in contempt and now imposing 10 grand a day fine on him for not complying with a court order.

I don't know why trump and his people believe that he and they are special and don't have to follow our laws. Thankfully this judge is holding trump to the same laws the rest of us have to follow.

I'm sure he will appeal and lose.

MSN

www.msn.com
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Awwww……Trump loses…….Again!
 
Liberal7360 said:
The judge held trump in contempt and now imposing 10 grand a day fine on him for not complying with a court order.

I don't know why trump and his people believe that he and they are special and don't have to follow our laws. Thankfully this judge is holding trump to the same laws the rest of us have to follow.

I'm sure he will appeal and lose.

MSN

www.msn.com
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Good luck getting him to pay.
 
Deuce said:
Yeah, judges don't just shrug their shoulders and let you pay fines for eternity. This is more of a warning shot. Penalties can and will increase until compliance is achieved, and that will eventually include Trump behind bars.
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From your lips (computer) to God's ears. Unfortunately, since I don't believe there is a god that manipulates our lives, he'll never serve time, even though, in a just world, he would.
 
Chomsky said:
While $10K a day is a considerable sum, I'm not sure that's enough to bring Trump to the table.
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How is the NY State AG going to enforce the fine? You think Florida is going to extradite him? It might as well be $10 million a day - NY's not going to get a dime out of him.
 
Loulit01 said:
Because the judge is only fining him ten grand a day. That's $365,000 a year. Nothing compared to what complying would cost him.
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Your maths is out; that's actually $3,650,000 a year. That amount would surely give anyone, including Trump, pause for thought.
 
lurchadams said:
How is the NY State AG going to enforce the fine? You think Florida is going to extradite him? It might as well be $10 million a day - NY's not going to get a dime out of him.
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If he doesn't pay the fine, then the judge will increase the fine, and they will start seizing his assets in NY if he continues to not pay.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
If he doesn't pay the fine, then the judge will increase the fine, and they will start seizing his assets in NY if he continues to not pay.
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How much equity does he have left in his "assets". The poor douche is so highly leveraged. If they took his stuff and his debt was written off it would likely be a relief. I'm sure he's had his minions clean all his important stuff out of NY.
 
folks, i need an update. Have they locked up Hilary yet??:ROFLMAO:
 
lurchadams said:
How much equity does he have left in his "assets". The poor douche is so highly leveraged. If they took his stuff and his debt was written off it would likely be a relief. I'm sure he's had his minions clean all his important stuff out of NY.
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He has a lot of personal property in NY.
 
I don't know why this is news. Not to be rude but it's always the same story. Trump guilty...nothing happens. Trump fined, nothing happens. Trump lied, nothing happens. Let's get real and just admit that he is above the law.
 
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