‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleached

[Fletch]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

No, you won't give a crap...because it isn't directly affecting you to any extent that you personally see. But if you're in, say, your twenties or thirties, when your children are older, they will see it directly affecting them...and your grandchildren most certainly will. And they'll wonder how you could possibly have refused to see what should have been so incredibly obvious.

Its not that I 'refuse to see' anything. The point is there is nothing we can do about it. If the activities of 7 billion humans are warming the planet then the planet is going to warm and things are going to change. Lots of things that used to exist on the planet no longer exist. Expect that to continue.

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Its not that I 'refuse to see' anything. The point is there is nothing we can do about it. If the activities of 7 billion humans are warming the planet then the planet is going to warm and things are going to change. Lots of things that used to exist on the planet no longer exist. Expect that to continue.

But we can do something about it. We just don't do enough right now.

 

[Deuce]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Ive already cited the problems with the report starting with the lie in the title.

And I think you will swallow anything. I think its HILARIOUS you think AGW is causing climate change and that it is on an ever increasing upward trend...except that part where it was thwarted by some clouds that saved that particular section of the barrier reef.

Hilarious.

"Ever-increasing upwards trend?"

Are you one of those people who thinks AGW requires that every year be hotter than every year previous at every point on the earth's surface?

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

"Ever-increasing upwards trend?"

Are you one of those people who thinks AGW requires that every year be hotter than every year previous at every point on the earth's surface?

Lol, that is pretty laughable. And it just shows you how ignorant some people are on AGW.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

"Ever-increasing upwards trend?"

Are you one of those people who thinks AGW requires that every year be hotter than every year previous at every point on the earth's surface?

You know me Deuce...I'd be happy if they just stopped lying about temps, gaming models to make the temps say what golly...they really believe they should be saying, intentionally placing temp sensing equipment next to black tops, radiators, heaters, etc, and going back and 'correcting' historical data to make it show what it was 'supposed' to be.

When you dont lie, you dont keep getting caught in lies. Luckily for those constantly caught with their hands in the cookie jar...the religious types out there just dont care. Preach preacher!

Maybe they should start with that 93% lie. Whaddya think?

 

[VanceMack]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Lol, that is pretty laughable. And it just shows you how ignorant some people are on AGW.

Can you explain why the research 'scientists' have manipulated current and historical temperature data? Can you explain the theory regarding the oceans absorbing the anticipated temperature increases?

 

[VanceMack]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

But we can do something about it. We just don't do enough right now.

You mean passing treaties like the Kyoto accord? Perhaps the passage of agreements in Paris? What would you like to see done?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Its not that I 'refuse to see' anything. The point is there is nothing we can do about it. If the activities of 7 billion humans are warming the planet then the planet is going to warm and things are going to change. Lots of things that used to exist on the planet no longer exist. Expect that to continue.

"The house that we all live in and can't get out of is on fire...and it's gonna burn anyway. There's nothing we can do about it."

Freaking incredible.

 

[longview]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Coral bleaching can be caused by any of several factors, including the water warming.
However if we look at the water temperature stations on the Great Barrier Reef, the water temperature
has not changed much in the last 18 years.
Pacific Ocean: Great Barrier Reef: Sea Water Temperature Compared to Long Term Averages
I plotted 2009 and 2010 because one was an El Nino and the other was a La Nina.
The seems to be a rush to attribute any event with an unknown cause to AGW.

 

[Threegoofs]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Coral bleaching can be caused by any of several factors, including the water warming.
However if we look at the water temperature stations on the Great Barrier Reef, the water temperature
has not changed much in the last 18 years.
Pacific Ocean: Great Barrier Reef: Sea Water Temperature Compared to Long Term Averages
I plotted 2009 and 2010 because one was an El Nino and the other was a La Nina.
The seems to be a rush to attribute any event with an unknown cause to AGW.

Well, it looks like the experts in the field are the ones who are attributing it to climate change.

I would imagine their extensive experience and deep education in the issue of coral bleaching leads them to that conclusion.

On the other hand, we have denier bloggers and DP libertarians with absolutely no knowledge of coral (except what they can learn in a few minutes of Google searches) telling us that it's NOT climate change.

I think I'll stick with the people who actually, you know, understand stuff.

 

[longview]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Well, it looks like the experts in the field are the ones who are attributing it to climate change.

I would imagine their extensive experience and deep education in the issue of coral bleaching leads them to that conclusion.

On the other hand, we have denier bloggers and DP libertarians with absolutely no knowledge of coral (except what they can learn in a few minutes of Google searches) telling us that it's NOT climate change.

I think I'll stick with the people who actually, you know, understand stuff.

Use your logic, which of the identified stress elements could be caused from AGW?
Status of and Threat to Coral Reefs | International Coral Reef Initiative
Since the water temperature is not increasing quickly, and the sea level is not changing quickly.
Maybe real Pollution or some organic source is causing a change.
Plenty of things cause coral stress, and not all are related to AGW.

 

[MrT]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Use your logic, which of the identified stress elements could be caused from AGW?
Status of and Threat to Coral Reefs | International Coral Reef Initiative
Since the water temperature is not increasing quickly, and the sea level is not changing quickly.
Maybe real Pollution or some organic source is causing a change.
Plenty of things cause coral stress, and not all are related to AGW.

You ignore the possibility that climate change can impact those other variables (pollution or some organic source).

Like 3G said, there are experts on coral growth and they are the ones attributing the cause, in part, to AGW. I am going to listen to them rather than do some cursory look through a list of potential threats and try and make a better argument than them.

I will make a slight note on your disputes. Corals, to my knowledge, are not necessarily impacted so much by the rate of temperature change, but just by the mere temperature measurement. In other words, corals can bleach once a certain temperature has been has been reached, regardless of how quickly that change occurs (unless of course the change occurred so very slowly that the organisms could adapt naturally).

Given our current rates of change are roughly 50-100x faster than natural climatic shifts, that is extremely unlikely.

 

[Threegoofs]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Use your logic, which of the identified stress elements could be caused from AGW?
Status of and Threat to Coral Reefs | International Coral Reef Initiative
Since the water temperature is not increasing quickly, and the sea level is not changing quickly.
Maybe real Pollution or some organic source is causing a change.
Plenty of things cause coral stress, and not all are related to AGW.

Well, I dont really know the determinants of coral stress. Its really not an area I googled for three minutes like you did.

I'd just like to point out that you have opinions that differ from the experts on paleoclimate, surface temperature recording, the physics of CO2 and other GHG feedback, glacier and ice monitoring in polar areas, and now coral reefs. In each and every instance, you differ from the experts by saying AGW cannot be a significant factor.

Doesnt it make you reconsider your position a little bit? How armies of experts with are lining up with masses of data and well formed opinions on the impact of AGW, and meanwhile, you are sitting pretending you are David with a slinghsot with a libertarian stone, thinking you can make all of it disappear by flinging your free market stone at the masses?

 

[ludin]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Looks like they joined the bandwagon in making a statement that appeals to the dogma. Their data does not support that conclusion.

Please note that they say "glacial-interglacial" meaning the longer term signal. It does not dismiss the interdecadal signal. Then they elude to pCO2 making the drastic changes without actually saying it. Funny how figure 1 has a downward spike in pH around 1930 lower than today. pH wasn't elevated much then!

your forget if they don't say that then they won't get their millions of dollars in grant money.
but you know hey this is all science has nothing to do with money.

just like the previous head of the IPCC worked and sat on the board of TERI which is a green organization, but
the kicker is that TERI is owned by TATA group one of the largest carbon trading companies in the world.

they were even involved in helping al gore attempt to setup that carbon trading company here in the US.
yet they are on the up and up. no conflict of interest at all.

 

[longview]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

You ignore the possibility that climate change can impact those other variables (pollution or some organic source).

Like 3G said, there are experts on coral growth and they are the ones attributing the cause, in part, to AGW. I am going to listen to them rather than do some cursory look through a list of potential threats and try and make a better argument than them.

I will make a slight note on your disputes. Corals, to my knowledge, are not necessarily impacted so much by the rate of temperature change, but just by the mere temperature measurement. In other words, corals can bleach once a certain temperature has been has been reached, regardless of how quickly that change occurs (unless of course the change occurred so very slowly that the organisms could adapt naturally).

Given our current rates of change are roughly 50-100x faster than natural climatic shifts, that is extremely unlikely.

As I showed before, the water temperature, does not appear to be changing much.
Pacific Ocean: Great Barrier Reef: Sea Water Temperature Compared to Long Term Averages
The real danger, is that in the rush to find a cause to blame, the real cause is overlooked.
I recall a few years back, they correctly identified an ingredient in sunscreen causing a problem.
Sunscreens Cause Coral Bleaching by Promoting Viral Infections
I think they changed the formula of sun screen.
What would have happened in 2008 if the Scientist had automatically blamed AGW without looking at other causes?

 

[ludin]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Use your logic, which of the identified stress elements could be caused from AGW?
Status of and Threat to Coral Reefs | International Coral Reef Initiative
Since the water temperature is not increasing quickly, and the sea level is not changing quickly.
Maybe real Pollution or some organic source is causing a change.
Plenty of things cause coral stress, and not all are related to AGW.

you forget if they don't publish anything that doesn't promote this myth of AGW then they won't get their millions of dollars
in grant money for their research.

Top scientists start to examine fiddled global warming figures - Telegraph

these people are BS the data and cherry picking what they monitor and report.
they should all be fired and arrested for the scientific frauds they are.

they are manipulating the raw data to only show ever increasing temperatures.
that is why 97% of their models are inaccurate and frankly dishonest.

 

[MrT]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

As I showed before, the water temperature, does not appear to be changing much.
Pacific Ocean: Great Barrier Reef: Sea Water Temperature Compared to Long Term Averages
The real danger, is that in the rush to find a cause to blame, the real cause is overlooked.
I recall a few years back, they correctly identified an ingredient in sunscreen causing a problem.
Sunscreens Cause Coral Bleaching by Promoting Viral Infections
I think they changed the formula of sun screen.
What would have happened in 2008 if the Scientist had automatically blamed AGW without looking at other causes?

Do you honestly believe that Scientists are "automatically" blaming AGW now? Especially given a very recent history of these exact same scientists doing their due diligence and researching the cause back to sunscreen?

 

[longview]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Do you honestly believe that Scientists are "automatically" blaming AGW now? Especially given a very recent history of these exact same scientists doing their due diligence and researching the cause back to sunscreen?

That is contently the focus of the article at the beginning of this thread.
Only 7% of the Great Barrier Reef has avoided coral bleaching – ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies

Meanwhile on the west coast of Australia, researchers are also discovering large-scale bleaching caused by elevated temperatures on both sides of the Australian continent.

 

[Threegoofs]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

you forget if they don't publish anything that doesn't promote this myth of AGW then they won't get their millions of dollars
in grant money for their research.

Top scientists start to examine fiddled global warming figures - Telegraph

these people are BS the data and cherry picking what they monitor and report.
they should all be fired and arrested for the scientific frauds they are.

they are manipulating the raw data to only show ever increasing temperatures.
that is why 97% of their models are inaccurate and frankly dishonest.

It's all a giant conspiracy!

 

[ludin]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

It's all a giant conspiracy!

nope it is an outright power grab. there is a difference.
the problem is you believe them.

even though plenty of scientists have quit the IPCC reports due to how they handled
data, and their dishonesty in handling of the report itself.

but you ignore all of those people.

 

[ludin]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Do you honestly believe that Scientists are "automatically" blaming AGW now? Especially given a very recent history of these exact same scientists doing their due diligence and researching the cause back to sunscreen?

umm they blame AGW every time a bird poops in the wrong spot.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Well, it looks like the experts in the field are the ones who are attributing it to climate change.

Yes, the climate is always changing.

Can you say cyclical?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

umm they blame AGW every time a bird poops in the wrong spot.

Is that why my car gets those funny spots.

Man...

We have to stop AGW immediately!

I'm pissed now!

 

[yankintx]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

I know. Or it could be a naturally occurring phenomenon.

They COULD try starting with being honest about the headlines. Scientists DID NOT SAY 93% of the great barrier was now bleached. What the article ACTUALLY SAID was that they found some evidence of bleaching in 93% of the overall reef.

1 drowned polar bear + all the worlds polar bears are dying. Same bull****, different day.

Initially I thought this "bleaching" was man made, but it does appear that it is a natural occurrence. Obviously, its a tragedy for the Aussies, it is one of Australia's great national parks, equivalent to the Grand Canyon collapsing on it's self. It is protected, but it looks like nature has taken her own turn.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: ‘And then we wept': Scientists say 93 percent of the Great Barrier Reef now bleac

Like 3G said, there are experts on coral growth and they are the ones attributing the cause, in part, to AGW. I am going to listen to them rather than do some cursory look through a list of potential threats and try and make a better argument than them.

They only claim AGW is part of the problem.

Would 1% of the problem be part of it?

What about this:

What did we do before 1750 to cause that ocean acidic swing?

They are blaming the lowering of the pH to man's activity. Right?