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‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school[W:64]

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The Satanic Temple is targeting young children in schools - possibly as a satire? In Utah, I expect they will ban this religious activity from school during hours as well as after school hours. Could it be that is what that group is asking for? Why go through the legal process if the goal is to lose? This must be some kind of ritual with which I'm not familiar.

The 'Good News Club' fought a legal battle in New York in 2001 after they were denied access to renting district facilities after school hours. The Milford Central School District said it feared a violation of the Establishment Clause, which admonishes the union of Church and State, if the district allowed the christian group to use its facilities. A judge ruled that the school is a public forum and the district could bar religious organizations from renting school buildings.

The Satanic Temple wants the same court ruling applied to their group.

'After School Satan' Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school | KUTV
 

beefheart

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

The Satanic Temple is targeting young children in schools - possibly as a satire? In Utah, I expect they will ban this religious activity from school during hours as well as after school hours. Could it be that is what that group is asking for? Why go through the legal process if the goal is to lose? This must be some kind of ritual with which I'm not familiar.



'After School Satan' Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school | KUTV


How about NO religion at public schools?

They have churches for that.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

So, maybe I can draw inspiration from this in a "men are evil" kind of reverse psychology?

Schools are publicly funded, but they don't go to the highest bidder.

:x
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

The Satanic Temple is targeting young children in schools - possibly as a satire? In Utah, I expect they will ban this religious activity from school during hours as well as after school hours. Could it be that is what that group is asking for? Why go through the legal process if the goal is to lose? This must be some kind of ritual with which I'm not familiar.

Okay, but...

The Satanic Temple, a group that describes itself as “an atheistic religious organization that uses the symbol of Satan to inspire civil justice”, says the decision to spread their message in elementary schools is in direct response to Christian groups who operate after-school clubs in public schools.
‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school | KUTV

While this is a "legal" religious organization, past acts have demonstrated that the above pretty much sums up their goals. If I remember correctly, this is the same organization that has been trying to set up statues of Satan next to monuments of the Ten Commandments in front of State and local government buildings.

Public schools, like any other government facility, are supposed to provide equal access to all citizens for all legal purposes. If Christian clubs can operate in Elementary Schools, other religious clubs should be as well. All, or none...one way or the other. :shrug:
 
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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

While this is a "legal" religious organization, past acts have demonstrated that the above pretty much sums up their goals.

Public schools, like any other government facility, are supposed to provide equal access to all citizens for all legal purposes. If Christian clubs can operate in Elementary Schools, other religious clubs should be as well. All, or none...one way of the other.

The equal opportunity aspect is clear. I am not sure if this is about clubs operating in schools though. I have met pagans before, but never converted to paganism because of a project using natural arts and crafts back at school. I think they are saying there are religious subtexts without advertisement. In fact, I distinctly recall a peer of mine talking about his first confession. This was way back in grade school, but I remember it like it was last week.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

How about NO religion at public schools?

They have churches for that.

See the first amendment.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

The equal opportunity aspect is clear. I am not sure if this is about clubs operating in schools though. I have met pagans before, but never converted to paganism because of a project using natural arts and crafts back at school. I think they are saying there are religious subtexts without advertisement. In fact, I distinctly recall a peer of mine talking about his first confession. This was way back in grade school, but I remember it like it was last week.

theyre not real satanists theyre atheists theyre choosing satanism, simply because its the most offensive to christians, therefore it illustrates their point.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

Okay, but...

‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school | KUTV

While this is a "legal" religious organization, past acts have demonstrated that the above pretty much sums up their goals. If I remember correctly, this is the same organization that has been trying to set up statues of Satan next to monuments of the Ten Commandments in front of State and local government buildings.

Public schools, like any other government facility, are supposed to provide equal access to all citizens for all legal purposes. If Christian clubs can operate in Elementary Schools, other religious clubs should be as well. All, or none...one way or the other. :shrug:

The school should be open to all clubs.
However if there isn't a satanist club then this group should be out of luck.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

At least I can take some solace in knowing that when the Apocalypse finally does arrive, practically no one will care who did or did not take a pill in Ibiza.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

Hmm Trump set up an after school now? Thought he had learned his lesson with his faux university... :lamo
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

Okay, but...

‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school | KUTV

While this is a "legal" religious organization, past acts have demonstrated that the above pretty much sums up their goals. If I remember correctly, this is the same organization that has been trying to set up statues of Satan next to monuments of the Ten Commandments in front of State and local government buildings.

Public schools, like any other government facility, are supposed to provide equal access to all citizens for all legal purposes. If Christian clubs can operate in Elementary Schools, other religious clubs should be as well. All, or none...one way or the other. :shrug:

If they are claiming that they are atheistic then they cannot by definition be religious. As such all of their cases regarding them being denied something should be thrown out.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

How about NO religion at public schools?

They have churches for that.

If a school district decides to rent space to one group after hours, or allow groups free use of the facilities, then religious groups must have access to those same facilities and under the same terms. In short, it is either all, or none. The school cant divide tax payers into "cool groups" that get to use the public resources that their taxes helped build and "uncool" groups that don't.

Any group wishing to use school property after hours at my neighborhood elementary school needed a number of parents whose children attended the school to sponsor the group and also needed to demonstrate that their group had a certain number of participants who were also enrolled at the school. If the Satanists can meet these requirements, they should be in.
 
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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

If they are claiming that they are atheistic then they cannot by definition be religious. As such all of their cases regarding them being denied something should be thrown out.

I think you will find some agnostics who claim that atheism is an ideology. One could make the case that spiritualism and ideology should be kept out of schools because they bear a close resemblance to religious belief. But I'm quite certain that the tenets of freemasonry surround many of these schools so there's a fine line between protecting children and protecting the Constitution which probably won't be crossed by throwing out this case.
 
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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

I think you will find some agnostics who claim that atheism is an ideology. One could make the case that spiritualism and ideology should be kept out of schools because they bear a close resemblance to religious belief. But I'm quite certain that the tenets of freemasonry surround many of these schools so there's a fine line between protecting children and protecting the constitution which probably won't be crossed by throwing out this case.

Ummm...no. Just no. Ideology can quite happily exist without spiritualism in any sense of the word. Spiritualism might require an ideology, but ideology does not require spiritualism. Anyone that would try to argue otherwise are idiots imo.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

If they are claiming that they are atheistic then they cannot by definition be religious. As such all of their cases regarding them being denied something should be thrown out.

They're claiming they are Satanists. That's a religion. If Christians can do it, so can Satanists, Muslims, Moonies, Scientologists, etc.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

If they are claiming that they are atheistic then they cannot by definition be religious. As such all of their cases regarding them being denied something should be thrown out.

Not all religions are theistic.
 

jet57

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

I think you will find some agnostics who claim that atheism is an ideology. One could make the case that spiritualism and ideology should be kept out of schools because they bear a close resemblance to religious belief. But I'm quite certain that the tenets of freemasonry surround many of these schools so there's a fine line between protecting children and protecting the Constitution which probably won't be crossed by throwing out this case.

The tenets of freemasonry surround none of those schools. Freemasons could be loosely described as deists. "Religion" is a matter that is outside.

Children are vulnerable to the adult world. As we know, the adult world makes anything they want out of any religion and our history of religion and it battles has been anything BUT helpful and safe for children. When regulated, religion can be a social cement and charitable outlet. However, when trying to mix religion with any set of political ideology or agenda, religion can become a divisive and destructive force. Having said that, in education religion as a survey of ideas and social contracts, along with its history, either American or world history can be enlightening for children and help to to decide on or better enjoy religion as a choice. Therefore all religions, in the US anyway, should be given a wide berth for study in order to understand its place.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

Where is a good French Muslim truck driver when you need one.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

Where is a good French Muslim truck driver when you need one.

Would you like to elaborate on why you are calling for a terrorist attack?
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

If they are claiming that they are atheistic then they cannot by definition be religious. As such all of their cases regarding them being denied something should be thrown out.

This is incorrect. Having no religion is equally protected as having a religion. The way you frame it, unless you have a religion you don't get full 1st amendment rights and that simply isn't the case. Either way, they're not claiming to be atheists, not that it matters.

Where is a good French Muslim truck driver when you need one.

Are you saying you want these people to get murdered?

See the first amendment.

Nowhere in the first amendment does it say you have a right to force YOUR religion into a public school. You can be religious, pray, and do whatever you want in school, you can't try to force it on anyone else or make it part of the curriculum.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

This is incorrect. Having no religion is equally protected as having a religion. The way you frame it, unless you have a religion you don't get full 1st amendment rights and that simply isn't the case. Either way, they're not claiming to be atheists, not that it matters.

Not what I said or implied. This group is doing what it does in order to get Christians to stop putting their religion in public spaces. They do so by claiming that they are religious and if they are denied then Christians shouldn't be allowed also based on separation of church and state because the State cannot show favoritism to one religion over another. If they didn't claim to be religious then they would have no Standing in our court system. Which is why their cases should be thrown out. They have no standing of religious protection under the 1st Amendment because they are not religious per the definition.

And yes, they are claiming to be an atheistic religious organization. Their own website admits that they do not worship nor believe in any sort of deity or anything supernatural. One cannot be religious if they do not believe in some sort of the supernatural. The very definitions of "religious" and "atheist" discounts any possibility of them being a religious organization.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

They're claiming they are Satanists. That's a religion. If Christians can do it, so can Satanists, Muslims, Moonies, Scientologists, etc.

Do they worship Satan? A supernatural being that lives in the underworld? No? Then it doesn't matter what name they tack onto their organization. Their own website admits that they do not believe or worship any supernatural or super powerful being or believe in such things.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

Nowhere in the first amendment does it say you have a right to force YOUR religion into a public school. You can be religious, pray, and do whatever you want in school, you can't try to force it on anyone else or make it part of the curriculum.

is the school a public square? yes
can the school discriminate against a religion? no

Sorry what you didn't read what I was responding to.

The person posting said that religion has to stay out of
school. That is entirely wrong.

A religious club is 100% allowed on school and the school cannot discriminate against them.
 

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

is the school a public square? yes
can the school discriminate against a religion? no

Sorry what you didn't read what I was responding to.

The person posting said that religion has to stay out of
school. That is entirely wrong.

A religious club is 100% allowed on school and the school cannot discriminate against them.

Are you sure about that?
 

ludin

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Re: ‘After School Satan’ – Satanic Temple targets kids at Utah elementary school

Are you sure about that?

see the first amendment
 
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