The Swedish experiment of doing remarkably little about Covid-19

[Big Eye]

German Study Finds Lockdown ‘Had No Effect’ on Stopping Spread of Coronavirus

Infection rates already falling before restrictions put in place.

summit.news

 

[Sandokan]

The Government’s work in response to the virus responsible for COVID-19

The Government’s work in response to the virus responsible for COVID-19 - Government.se

09 June 2021

The Swedish Government has presented a range of different measures to limit the spread of the COVID-19 virus and to mitigate the economic impact of it. The government’s overarching goal is to safeguard people’s lives and health and to secure the health care capacity. The Government’s policy and decisions aim to:

• Limit the spread of infection in the country
• Ensure health care resources are available
• Limit the impact on critical services
• Alleviate the impact on people and companies
• Ease concern, for example by providing information
• Ensure that the right measures are taken at the right time.


Picture: The Government Offices

The spread of COVID-19 and the number of hospital patients being treated for it are now decreasing dramatically. The largest vaccination campaign in Sweden’s history is protecting more people every day from serious illness. At a press conference on Thursday, the Government presented its five-stage plan to adapt and phase out the restrictions imposed in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Stage 1 already has been implemented, allowing restaurants to open longer, and public events like sports, museums, concerts, cinemas and amusement parks, are accommodating more people. Stage 2 will increase the limit for public gathering and events. The opening hours for restaurants will be increased. Stage 3 on July 15 will lift regulations limiting the number of people indoors and outdoors. In Stage 4, all limits for public gatherings and events and private gatherings will be lifted. And on Stage 5, all remaining restrictions will be lifted. The Public Health Agency of Sweden has been doing an excellent job with regard to CIVID-19.

 

[Sandokan]

Sweden has had few legally binding Covid restrictions – here’s what England can learn as it eases lockdown

Sweden has had few legally binding Covid restrictions - here's what England can learn as it eases lockdown (inews.co.uk)

It’s easy to paint Sweden as a country with a compliant population, or as a country that gambled with lives. The reality is more complicated.

By Catherine Edwards
July 9, 2021 5:18 pm

Unlike most countries, Sweden for a long time avoided strict Covid restrictions and lockdowns in the pandemic.

Non-essential businesses have remained open and there have been few legal limits on travel or socializing – just recommendations on underground stations, ferries and bus stops to “travel only if you must”. One of the few areas that have been subject to legal Covid restrictions throughout the whole pandemic has been events – limited to no more than 50 people last spring, reduced to eight in November, but now back at 6,000 for seated, outdoor events.

Even when Sweden’s rules were at their strictest – with private gatherings limited to eight people, restaurant opening hours limited and face masks worn on public transport – there were few situations in which a private individual could face a fine for violating them. England is now moving in a similar way, with legal ramifications for not following the rules to be dropped on 19 July.
Click link above for full article.

On July 1 Sweden eased restrictions. Life is returning back to what is was before the pandemic. Swedish are enjoying the summer time and festivals again. Restaurants and bars are open until 2 am. People no longer need to wear a mask on public transportation. Two thumbs up!

 

[Bodi]

A collapsing Super Power we are.

SAD

Like Rome though, the USA will be the main guy for a long time and even in hundreds of years will be a power.

 

[CaughtInThe]

On July 1 Sweden eased restrictions. Life is returning back to what is was before the pandemic. Swedish are enjoying the summer time and festivals again. Restaurants and bars are open until 2 am. People no longer need to wear a mask on public transportation. Two thumbs up!

COVID Dead...

Sweden: 14,604
Finland: 976
Norway: 796



Pro-Life

 

[Ishm]

Sweden unfortunately ended up with both sides of the coin being bad. High deaths and health costs and as bad, or worse economic impact than countries with more strict controls. They also ended up enduring a greater amount of lockdown restrictions as the virus surged for months. They also seem to get a little 'funky' with testing numbers and it's hard to really know how many people really became infected. Not an experiment many will want to repeat next time around.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Sweden is largely a rural and agrarian society outside Stockholm and strict lockdown measures were not really necessary to contain the spread. To avoid catching the virus, the Swedes in rural areas made sure to stay away from Stockholm. Around 9 in 10 Swedes say they keep at least a metre away from people at least some of the time, too. The population density for Sweden is only 57.5 people per square mile, while it is 276 people per square kilometre for the United Kingdom.

 

[Sandokan]

Sweden’s coronavirus deaths have fallen close to zero

Since July 1 when Sweden eased restrictions and life returned back to normal, the number of deaths due to coronavirus has been going down, and since July 14 has been practically no deaths over the last two weeks..

Coronavirus update July 28 link: COVID Live Update: 195,933,792 Cases and 4,192,287 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

Comparison of Sweden with some E.U. countries with strict lockdowns with regard to COVID-19 death, updated on July 28 by worldometer.

Place----------Population in MM------Death in K---Tot Cases K/1M pop----Death/1M pop
Sweden--------------10.1-------------------14.6 -----------108.0-------------------1438----%
Belgium-------------11.6-------------------25.2-------------96.0-------------------2167----51 higher
Spain----------------46.7------------------- 81.3-------------93.4-------------------1739----21 “
Italy------------------60.5------------------128.0------------71.6-------------------2120---- 47 “
UK-------------------67.8------------------129.3------------84.2-------------------1894---- 32 “
France---------------65.2------------------111.7------------92.1-------------------1707-----19 “
Switzerland----------8.7--------------------10.9------------82.8-------------------1250----15 lower
Austria---------------9.0--------------------10.7------------72.5------------------- 1185----21 “
Netherlands--------17.1--------------------17.8 ----------107.8-------------------1037----39 “

All the countries above have strict virus polices, except for Sweden that has mostly relaxed its policies. Although Sweden has the larger number of coronavirus cases per million of population compare to the other countries above, the number of deaths per million of population is lower in 5 of the 8 countries above

Comparison of Sweden with some U.S. States with strict lockdowns.

Place----------Population in MM-------Death in K---Tot Cases K/1M pop ----Death/1M pop

Sweden--------------10.1-------------------14.6----------- 108.0--------------------1437------%

USA----------------333.0------------------627.3-----------106.1--------------------1883-----31 higher

New York----------19.5--------------------54.2-----------113.2-------------------- 2786-----94 “
New Jersey----------8.9--------------------26.6-----------116.5-------------------- 2993----108 “
Michigan-----------10.0--------------------21.2-----------101.0---------------------2119-----47 “
Pennsylvania-------12.8-------------------27.9-------------95.7---------------------2182-----52 “
Illinois--------------12.7------------------- 25.9-----------111.5---------------------2043-----42 “

Comparing this COVID-19 chart with the February 4 chart with U.S. states , the percent of the Death/1M pop column for higher have increased for the states. See page 36, reply #882

The Swedish experiment of doing remarkably little about Covid-19 | Page 36 | Debate Politics

Sweden has been more successful with its relatively relaxed approach to managing the coronavirus pandemic than many of the E.U. countries and U.S. states above with strict lockdowns. The worst blind person is the one who refuses to see the truth.

 

[Ishm]

So an additional 6.2% SS tax on all businesses and an extra 6.2% (or more) on all earners? No caps on SS payments? A new 12.4% tax on the SS beneficiaries thst you are paying? It may well need to end up like that, but can you see 70%(?) of congress agreeing to make that type of change.

no additional SS tax. Just applying the existing 12.4% tax to all income. As you can see that is over twice what we need to cover the cost of Social Security. Surely we can find a happy medium between what we are collecting now and that that can easily cover the cost in the future. As Social Security is now it is solvent till 2037. We have time to fix it.

Sweden’s coronavirus deaths have fallen close to zero

Since July 1 when Sweden eased restrictions and life returned back to normal, the number of deaths due to coronavirus has been going down, and since July 14 has been practically no deaths over the last two weeks..

Coronavirus update July 28 link: COVID Live Update: 195,933,792 Cases and 4,192,287 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

Comparison of Sweden with some E.U. countries with strict lockdowns with regard to COVID-19 death, updated on July 28 by worldometer.

Place----------Population in MM------Death in K---Tot Cases K/1M pop----Death/1M pop
Sweden--------------10.1-------------------14.6 -----------108.0-------------------1438----%
Belgium-------------11.6-------------------25.2-------------96.0-------------------2167----51 higher
Spain----------------46.7------------------- 81.3-------------93.4-------------------1739----21 “
Italy------------------60.5------------------128.0------------71.6-------------------2120---- 47 “
UK-------------------67.8------------------129.3------------84.2-------------------1894---- 32 “
France---------------65.2------------------111.7------------92.1-------------------1707-----19 “
Switzerland----------8.7--------------------10.9------------82.8-------------------1250----15 lower
Austria---------------9.0--------------------10.7------------72.5------------------- 1185----21 “
Netherlands--------17.1--------------------17.8 ----------107.8-------------------1037----39 “

All the countries above have strict virus polices, except for Sweden that has mostly relaxed its policies. Although Sweden has the larger number of coronavirus cases per million of population compare to the other countries above, the number of deaths per million of population is lower in 5 of the 8 countries above

Comparison of Sweden with some U.S. States with strict lockdowns.

Place----------Population in MM-------Death in K---Tot Cases K/1M pop ----Death/1M pop

Sweden--------------10.1-------------------14.6----------- 108.0--------------------1437------%

USA----------------333.0------------------627.3-----------106.1--------------------1883-----31 higher

New York----------19.5--------------------54.2-----------113.2-------------------- 2786-----94 “
New Jersey----------8.9--------------------26.6-----------116.5-------------------- 2993----108 “
Michigan-----------10.0--------------------21.2-----------101.0---------------------2119-----47 “
Pennsylvania-------12.8-------------------27.9-------------95.7---------------------2182-----52 “
Illinois--------------12.7------------------- 25.9-----------111.5---------------------2043-----42 “

Comparing this COVID-19 chart with the February 4 chart with U.S. states , the percent of the Death/1M pop column for higher have increased for the states. See page 36, reply #882

The Swedish experiment of doing remarkably little about Covid-19 | Page 36 | Debate Politics

Sweden has been more successful with its relatively relaxed approach to managing the coronavirus pandemic than many of the E.U. countries and U.S. states above with strict lockdowns. The worst blind person is the one who refuses to see the truth.

Why not compare Swedens covid results to places like say Finland, Norway, and Denmark? You know, it's actual neighbors with similar populations, similar resources and social constructs. Or if really wanting to compare to a hard lockdown philosophy, compare Swedens 1450 deaths per million to the 5 deaths per million and better economic result in New Zealand. Swedens experiment was a failure by any rational comparison. That some other countries failed even worse doesn't make Sweden a success.

 

[Chagos]

Why not compare Swedens covid results to places like say Finland, Norway, and Denmark? You know, it's actual neighbors with similar populations, similar resources and social constructs. Or if really wanting to compare to a hard lockdown philosophy, compare Swedens 1450 deaths per million to the 5 deaths per million and better economic result in New Zealand. Swedens experiment was a failure by any rational comparison. That some other countries failed even worse doesn't make Sweden a success.

This argument has been presented to him over months now (more like over a year) and he never responds to it, waits a couple of weeks, and then comes back with the same stupid statistic as in his last post.

All goes to show that there's no point in responding to his spam at all.

 

[joluoto]

And Sweden has had restrictions of various kind since fall, they made a u-turn when the realized how bad it got. Sweden has not been without a restrictions for almost a year by now.

 

[snakestretcher]

German Study Finds Lockdown ‘Had No Effect’ on Stopping Spread of Coronavirus

Infection rates already falling before restrictions put in place.

summit.news

What study? Details? Link? Not to some random far-right conspiracy blog like "Summit News" please.

Summit News - Bias and Credibility

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel

 

[Sandokan]

Vindication for the Swedish model of non-coercive pandemic mitigation?

Vindication for the Swedish model of non-coercive pandemic mitigation? | Just The News

Mask-free Sweden had near zero COVID-19 daily deaths in July, fared better than expected economically with no lockdowns in place

By Bethany Blankley | Updated: August 8, 2021

While many U.S. policy makers are suggesting that states return to lockdowns and impose vaccine or mask mandates to engage in everyday life as new coronavirus variants surface, Sweden's population of 10.3 million fared better than expected after implementing no lockdowns over the last year.

In April of last year, Björn Olsen, professor of infectious medicine at the University of Uppsala, issued a report suggesting that if lockdowns weren't implemented a "tragedy" would soon befall Sweden.

An Imperial College model suggested that 85,000 people would die without a lockdown, and an Uppsala University team projected that 40,000 people would die from COVID-19 by May 1, 2020 and nearly 100,000 by June.

But by May, Sweden reported roughly six deaths for every one million people, according to the Financial Times, with 48.9% of its initial coronavirus deaths taking place in nursing homes, according to an analysis by the Swedish Public Health Agency.

More than a year later, Sweden recorded 1.1 million coronavirus cases with 1.07 million people having recovered from the virus, and 14,620 coronavirus-linked deaths, according to woldometers.info as of Aug. 8, 2021.
Click link above for full article.

Sweden, with no mask and lockdowns in place, recorded near cero COVID-19 deaths in July 2021. It only recorded 9 death in July even with the rise of Delta variant. Looks that the herd immunity is working notwithstanding early predictions.

 

[Ishm]

This argument has been presented to him over months now (more like over a year) and he never responds to it, waits a couple of weeks, and then comes back with the same stupid statistic as in his last post.

All goes to show that there's no point in responding to his spam at all.

While Delta has shifted the goal posts a little just recently, there is no argument that countries who responded hardest and earliest in implementing lockdowns and strong social distancing have fared massively better in terms of saving lives, and mostly economically as well. It's just really strange watching people ignore the obvious, proven, facts so they can try and support a failed political view. Is it too much pride to admit they were wrong, or just blind faith in their preferred politicsl leadership?

Interesting 'case study' going on in Australia right now. NSW state had a delta case back in June. They found it had spread in a couple of suburbs of Sydney so they did a part lockdown in those suburbs. Of course Delta kept spreading and infected several other states. After an ever increasing series of lockdown decisions that have confused and annoyed the state residents, today nearly the whole of NSW state is under stay at home orders. 2 months of messing around chasing their tales to be worse today than ever and maybe even have lost control of both Delta and the confused, angry, and now untrusting population.

Another state, Victoria, got a few cases and went straight to a hard lockdown a week or two ago. It seems so far that they might have got control of the outbreak, but still a bit uncertain.

Both states had zero cases before the first NSW case. Victoria has had more outbreaks and more experience proving to themselves that only early and hard lockdowns can prevent months of pain and deaths. The NSW leadership followed the many failed examples of trying to put the economy ahead of health. Then they found they were going to run out of healthcare capacity and finally got both desperate and serious. Sound familiar? That record has been played so many times you think people would know the words by now.

Australia is a good study for Americans. They have both federal and state goverments, similar wealth, Sydney in NSW state and Melbourne in Vic state would be the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in the USA by population. Going to be interesting to see how the two states get on over the next week or two.

 

[snakestretcher]

Sweden, with no mask and lockdowns in place, recorded near cero COVID-19 deaths in July 2021. It only recorded 9 death in July even with the rise of Delta variant. Looks that the herd immunity is working notwithstanding early predictions.

No, it wasn't working and Sweden had to implement restrictions and laws to address the failure of their herd immunity experiment.

Covid-19: herd immunity in Sweden fails to materialise | The Royal Society of Medicine

Sweden’s policy of allowing the controlled spread of Covid-19 viral infection among the population has so far failed to deliver the country’s previously stated goal of herd immunity.

www.rsm.ac.uk

Sweden’s failed COVID strategy leaves the country deeply divided

The Swedish model became a symbol for anti-lockdown and no-mask movements across the world. But it is no longer a source of consensus at home

www.opendemocracy.net

Sweden: New COVID-19 Act Enters into Force

(Jan. 21, 2021) On January 10, 2021, a temporary COVID-19 Act (Lag om särskilda begränsningar för att förhindra spridning av sjukdomen covid-19 (SFS 2021:4)) entered into force in Sweden. The act was adopted by the Swedish Parliament in a special session on January 8, 2021. It allows the...

www.loc.gov

That was then. This is now...

Sweden Abolishes Several Measures as the Country Enters Stage 3 of Lifting COVID-19 Restrictions

The Swedish authorities have announced that in line with the country’s reopening plan, as of today, July 15, several measures that were introduced as a response to the COVID-19 pandemic will be lifted. Therefore, since the number of COVID-19 infection cases and the number of people requiring...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

 

[code1211]

It will be very interesting to see how this approach works out for the Swedes. Personally, I see trouble ahead.

Looking at the current figures in Italy and Spain (after weeks of lockdown), simple logic tells me that those figures would be much higher had life carried on as normal.

Why?

Spain and Italy both have deaths per million much higher than Sweden.

If anything, judging by the outcomes and the mitigation measures imposed, draconian mitigation measures are more hurtful and no mitigation measures.

COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[PeteEU]

Why?

Spain and Italy both have deaths per million much higher than Sweden.

If anything, judging by the outcomes and the mitigation measures imposed, draconian mitigation measures are more hurtful and no mitigation measures.

COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Sweden is not a travel hub and is rather isolated. Spain and Italy not so much. Add to that, that Swedes don't socialize as much as Spanish or Italians and of course the weather aspect and you have your difference.

 

[snakestretcher]

Why?

Spain and Italy both have deaths per million much higher than Sweden.

If anything, judging by the outcomes and the mitigation measures imposed, draconian mitigation measures are more hurtful and no mitigation measures.

COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

And both Spain and Italy have significant numbers of the elderly in their populations-as well as being major tourist destinations within Europe. Very different is all respects from Sweden, as well as Sweden's sparser population.

Italy: share of elderly population 2009-2023 | Statista

In 2023, 24.1 percent of the total population in Italy was 65 years and older.

www.statista.com

Sweden: share of the elderly population 2022 | Statista

In Sweden, the share of elderly of the total population has increased since 1970.

www.statista.com

 

[code1211]

Sweden is not a travel hub and is rather isolated. Spain and Italy not so much. Add to that, that Swedes don't socialize as much as Spanish or Italians and of course the weather aspect and you have your difference.

The cooler Scandinavian weather aspect would seem to confine people to the indoors more.

Regarding social differences, if EVERYONE was under quarantine, the social differences would seem to have been leveled.

The Swedes were free to run wild. That means something different to a Swede than it does to most.

However, the Italians were reported to have been pretty much locked down, locked in or locked out nationwide.

Maybe the virus likes folks who show emotion. One Scandinavian, elated that his homeland was pretty much unaffected by Covid said, "Va? Är det bra?" (Huh? Is that good?).

 

[Chagos]

~.......................................The Swedes were free to run wild. .....................................~

The mind boggles

 

[PeteEU]

The cooler Scandinavian weather aspect would seem to confine people to the indoors more.

Regarding social differences, if EVERYONE was under quarantine, the social differences would seem to have been leveled.

The Swedes were free to run wild. That means something different to a Swede than it does to most.

However, the Italians were reported to have been pretty much locked down, locked in or locked out nationwide.

Maybe the virus likes folks who show emotion. One Scandinavian, elated that his homeland was pretty much unaffected by Covid said, "Va? Är det bra?" (Huh? Is that good?).

I dont think you understand.

In Italy/Spain, meeting the family every Sunday or even every evening for dinner or just chatting is extremely common. When I say family, I mean Grandmother to grandson, so it could easily be 10+ people.

In Scandinavia, that simply does not happen. Sure we meet our whole family, but once a week? HAHA. Once a month maybe. Going to see your parents sure, but then you dont go there with your brothers and sisters. That usually only happens on birthdays or special days.

This means that the ability for the virus to spread is much more limited in Scandinavia vs Southern Europe.

Add in a far better socializing in Southern Europe due to weather and access to bars/cafes vs Scandinavia and you have a huge difference.

Now you may say "come on, access to bars/cafes"? Yes.. You can get a coffee for around an Euro... in Scandinavia it is considerably more. Or how about going out to eat. Here in Spain, you can go to a restaurant as a family and get mom-dad-2 kids fed for 30-50ish euro with drinks (provided you avoid the tourist traps). In Denmark, you pay a minimum of 30 euros per person.. if you are lucky.

We know the virus spreads mostly in social engagements and especially indoors.. and when you dont have that many, then it does not spread that much.

 

[code1211]

The mind boggles

Yeah. It's not really an issue that would force implementation of a recovery plan.

 

[code1211]

I dont think you understand.

In Italy/Spain, meeting the family every Sunday or even every evening for dinner or just chatting is extremely common. When I say family, I mean Grandmother to grandson, so it could easily be 10+ people.

In Scandinavia, that simply does not happen. Sure we meet our whole family, but once a week? HAHA. Once a month maybe. Going to see your parents sure, but then you dont go there with your brothers and sisters. That usually only happens on birthdays or special days.

This means that the ability for the virus to spread is much more limited in Scandinavia vs Southern Europe.

Add in a far better socializing in Southern Europe due to weather and access to bars/cafes vs Scandinavia and you have a huge difference.

Now you may say "come on, access to bars/cafes"? Yes.. You can get a coffee for around an Euro... in Scandinavia it is considerably more. Or how about going out to eat. Here in Spain, you can go to a restaurant as a family and get mom-dad-2 kids fed for 30-50ish euro with drinks (provided you avoid the tourist traps). In Denmark, you pay a minimum of 30 euros per person.. if you are lucky.

We know the virus spreads mostly in social engagements and especially indoors.. and when you dont have that many, then it does not spread that much.

Seems like Coronavirus loves a good time!

I'm not sure the we DO know what you say we know. The virus is a virus and likes to spread when there is the opportunity. People, whether working or having fun, seem equally susceptible.

Here in the US, when there was nothing open that was fun, we experienced a spread to about 10% of our population. So far, all variants combined have killed about 0.2% of the US population across 16 months.

I'm very hesitant to claim any knowledge of how or when or why the virus spreads. The worst onset here in the US occurred in the months of December and January when implementation of mitigation measures were all at their peaks.

This is a period when most of the US has temperatures more similar to Sweden than Italy.

The actions of individuals employing the recommended mitigation measures seem to have been useless in addressing the spread. All therapy-cures employed before Regeneron seemed to be desperate grasping at straws.

The use of the vaccines seems to have been effective, but we are now warned that the virus will rise again in the normal flu season and that additional vaccinations are required.

I am hoping that the vaccines were and are effective, but also cautiously worried that the vaccines may prove to be as weak a defender as the masks have proven to have been.

Covid is occurring in waves that seem to rise, crest and break with little notice of our efforts to impede them.

 

[snakestretcher]

Seems like Coronavirus loves a good time!

I'm not sure the we DO know what you say we know. The virus is a virus and likes to spread when there is the opportunity. People, whether working or having fun, seem equally susceptible.

Here in the US, when there was nothing open that was fun, we experienced a spread to about 10% of our population. So far, all variants combined have killed about 0.2% of the US population across 16 months.

I'm very hesitant to claim any knowledge of how or when or why the virus spreads. The worst onset here in the US occurred in the months of December and January when implementation of mitigation measures were all at their peaks.

This is a period when most of the US has temperatures more similar to Sweden than Italy.

The actions of individuals employing the recommended mitigation measures seem to have been useless in addressing the spread. All therapy-cures employed before Regeneron seemed to be desperate grasping at straws.

The use of the vaccines seems to have been effective, but we are now warned that the virus will rise again in the normal flu season and that additional vaccinations are required.

I am hoping that the vaccines were and are effective, but also cautiously worried that the vaccines may prove to be as weak a defender as the masks have proven to have been.

Covid is occurring in waves that seem to rise, crest and break with little notice of our efforts to impede them.

Don't you find it curious that rates of infections rise dramatically whenever lockdowns and other restrictions are eased? We in Britain got to the point when no new deaths were reported. Then lockdowns were lifted and rates of infection went through the roof. Lockdowns and other mitigating measures only work if people comply, just as they did here in the UK while you lot were wasting breath whining about 'freedom!'

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Like Rome though, the USA will be the main guy for a long time and even in hundreds of years will be a power.

Rome never had the collective insanity of our ruling class.
All it will take for the collapse is for China to militarily provoke us and have no response or a Chinese victory.

something incredibly likely because of our woke leadership

because if China or Russia beats us in a war then the US dollar ceases being world reserve currency