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Grand Mal

Russian warship, go f*** yourself!
DP Veteran
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May 6, 2013
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I've got no education so I can't figure this out. What economic agenda is served by tanking the stock markets, reducing interest rates and raising the debt ceiling? Stock market crashes have in the past incited recessions, reducing interest rates is one way of trying to correct a recession, but why increase government debt? Reducing interest rates and increasing government debt are measures that will increase money in circulation but why take so much value out of the stock markets?
Or is chaos the point?
 
S
I've got no education so I can't figure this out. What economic agenda is served by tanking the stock markets, reducing interest rates and raising the debt ceiling? Stock market crashes have in the past incited recessions, reducing interest rates is one way of trying to correct a recession, but why increase government debt? Reducing interest rates and increasing government debt are measures that will increase money in circulation but why take so much value out of the stock markets?
Or is chaos the point?
trump is “tripping” America so the billionaires can fall on us in a feeding frenzy.

I mean, there has to be something he can do for them that will finally make them accept him as one of them, right?

They need some way to compete with billionaires that enjoy a much more pliable food supply. Authoritarian regimes are much easier to feed in.
 
I've got no education so I can't figure this out. What economic agenda is served by tanking the stock markets, reducing interest rates and raising the debt ceiling? Stock market crashes have in the past incited recessions, reducing interest rates is one way of trying to correct a recession, but why increase government debt? Reducing interest rates and increasing government debt are measures that will increase money in circulation but why take so much value out of the stock markets?
Or is chaos the point?
Trump is supposedly playing some sort of 4D chess or something and just trust him 🙄
 
I've got no education so I can't figure this out. What economic agenda is served by tanking the stock markets, reducing interest rates and raising the debt ceiling? Stock market crashes have in the past incited recessions, reducing interest rates is one way of trying to correct a recession, but why increase government debt? Reducing interest rates and increasing government debt are measures that will increase money in circulation but why take so much value out of the stock markets?
Or is chaos the point?

Increasing chaos across the land might lead to civil unrest, which could be exploited by trump as a pretext to declare martial law.

I'm not saying this is trump's intent. I'm simply offering it as a possible explanation for his irrational actions.
 
My explanation is that he suffers from narcissism and such people always have a lot of drama and smoke around them. Even if things are doing fine and are quiet, they will make sure to put a stop to all that.
 
Increasing chaos across the land might lead to civil unrest, which could be exploited by trump as a pretext to declare martial law.

I'm not saying this is trump's intent. I'm simply offering it as a possible explanation for his irrational actions.
Irrational is how it seems to me but I can't let go of the suspicion that all this somehow benefits him. Him and his family.
I've been saying since his campaign that he doesn't need voters anymore, doesn't need the GOP anymore, doesnt care about satisfying any political agenda. His whole focus is on what will be good for him and his family.
But I can't work all this out. Maybe chaos will be an advantage somehow.
Or maybe he's really as stupid as I occasionally call him when I want to jerk MAGA chains.
 
Irrational is how it seems to me but I can't let go of the suspicion that all this somehow benefits him. Him and his family.
I've been saying since his campaign that he doesn't need voters anymore, doesn't need the GOP anymore, doesnt care about satisfying any political agenda. His whole focus is on what will be good for him and his family.
But I can't work all this out. Maybe chaos will be an advantage somehow.
Or maybe he's really as stupid as I occasionally call him when I want to jerk MAGA chains.
That’s bothering me also.

I can’t quite wrap my brain around what the “end game” is here.

Maybe I just don’t want to
 
Irrational is how it seems to me but I can't let go of the suspicion that all this somehow benefits him. Him and his family.

I totally agree. But again, what politician doesn't put himself and his family first?

I've been saying since his campaign that he doesn't need voters anymore, doesn't need the GOP anymore, doesnt care about satisfying any political agenda. His whole focus is on what will be good for him and his family.
But I can't work all this out. Maybe chaos will be an advantage somehow.
Or maybe he's really as stupid as I occasionally call him when I want to jerk MAGA chains.

He has to be familiar with the smoot/hawley tariffs and their disastrous effect on the US economy at the time. How does tanking the economy benefit him.

And chaos helps the state, because it presents opportunities to grab more power.
 
That’s bothering me also.

I can’t quite wrap my brain around what the “end game” is here.

Maybe I just don’t want to

Naomi Klein, an extremely bright and readable Canadian, first came to my attention when she wrote an international bestseller Shock Doctrine. That fascinating book, which you can read free on the internet, answers most of the questions concerning what Trump, The Heritage Foundation, and the American oligarchs are doing and why.

Here's a link. I think most interested people will find Klein extremely insightful and knowledgeable. If you get a chance and ferret around her sight you'll find loads of information and facts. Her podcasts alone are worth the effort.
 
I totally agree. But again, what politician doesn't put himself and his family first?



He has to be familiar with the smoot/hawley tariffs and their disastrous effect on the US economy at the time. How does tanking the economy benefit him.
No he doesn't have to. He could be completely ignorant of economics. He talks like he is. Maybe he's just pandering to idiots when he says he's charging other countries with tariffs, or maybe he really is that ignorant.
As for how tanking the economy might benefit him, that's what I'm asking.
Cui bono?
And chaos helps the state, because it presents opportunities to grab more power.
Why would Trump care about the state grabbing more power? He's done after this term. When he's a private citizen again, and his family, will they benefit from a more powerful state?
There's something I'm not getting here. Somehow all this economic chaos is working in someone's favour.
 
No he doesn't have to. He could be completely ignorant of economics.

I find that hard to believe. It seems to me a big tariff supporter would check the historical record of tariffs, at least in order to confirm what he already believes to be true.
Why would Trump care about the state grabbing more power? He's done after this term. When he's a private citizen again, and his family, will they benefit from a more powerful state?

Maybe he doesn't plan on becoming a private citizen again. It's unlikely but certainly possible that he may be planning on remaining in power. Most of the world lives under an authoritarian state, and plenty of democracies have turned into dictatorships.
 
I totally agree. But again, what politician doesn't put himself and his family first?



He has to be familiar with the smoot/hawley tariffs and their disastrous effect on the US economy at the time. How does tanking the economy benefit him.

And chaos helps the state, because it presents opportunities to grab more power.

"And chaos helps the state, because it presents opportunities to grab more power."

I think J6 was just such an opportunity. Same man he always was.
 
I've got no education so I can't figure this out. What economic agenda is served by tanking the stock markets, reducing interest rates and raising the debt ceiling? Stock market crashes have in the past incited recessions, reducing interest rates is one way of trying to correct a recession, but why increase government debt? Reducing interest rates and increasing government debt are measures that will increase money in circulation but why take so much value out of the stock markets?
Or is chaos the point?
The additional tariff amount collected by US importers must be paid to the US Treasury.
That becomes an increase in revenue for the US.
I wonder if his plan is to use this to pay for Greenland, his Gaza wonderland, or the Panama Canal.
 
"And chaos helps the state, because it presents opportunities to grab more power."

I think J6 was just such an opportunity. Same man he always was.
No shit!
 
No he doesn't have to. He could be completely ignorant of economics. He talks like he is. Maybe he's just pandering to idiots when he says he's charging other countries with tariffs, or maybe he really is that ignorant.
As for how tanking the economy might benefit him, that's what I'm asking.
Cui bono?

Why would Trump care about the state grabbing more power? He's done after this term. When he's a private citizen again, and his family, will they benefit from a more powerful state?
There's something I'm not getting here. Somehow all this economic chaos is working in someone's favour.
Trump is completely ignorant of most things.
He is not well read, he does not listen to others, he always believes that he is the smartest one in the room, and he shoots from the hip.
This is a horrible, horrible combination.
 
Naomi Klein, an extremely bright and readable Canadian, first came to my attention when she wrote an international bestseller Shock Doctrine. That fascinating book, which you can read free on the internet, answers most of the questions concerning what Trump, The Heritage Foundation, and the American oligarchs are doing and why.

Here's a link. I think most interested people will find Klein extremely insightful and knowledgeable. If you get a chance and ferret around her sight you'll find loads of information and facts. Her podcasts alone are worth the effort.
Excellent
Thank you
Knowledge is power.

ETA - actually, my friend, that link is a transcript of her podcast - same date, same title.
I will listen to it in the morning.
It’s called Unshocked with Naomi Klein
I would rather listen to the original author speak than read a transcript.
 
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I've got no education so I can't figure this out. What economic agenda is served by tanking the stock markets, reducing interest rates and raising the debt ceiling? Stock market crashes have in the past incited recessions, reducing interest rates is one way of trying to correct a recession, but why increase government debt? Reducing interest rates and increasing government debt are measures that will increase money in circulation but why take so much value out of the stock markets?
Or is chaos the point?

Respectfully, this assumes there is a plan.

They asked ChatGPT for a formula, asked it for a list to apply it to, and then went golfing.

There is no plan.
 
I find that hard to believe. It seems to me a big tariff supporter would check the historical record of tariffs, at least in order to confirm what he already believes to be true.

Someone told him McKinley did it and it worked so he declared he loved McKinley.

I see no evidence whatsoever that he has looked into the historical record of tariffs.
 
I've got no education so I can't figure this out. What economic agenda is served by tanking the stock markets, reducing interest rates and raising the debt ceiling? Stock market crashes have in the past incited recessions, reducing interest rates is one way of trying to correct a recession, but why increase government debt? Reducing interest rates and increasing government debt are measures that will increase money in circulation but why take so much value out of the stock markets?
Or is chaos the point?

Nothing to worry about - he's just running the country the same way he ran his casinos. The house always wins, right?
 
The additional tariff amount collected by US importers must be paid to the US Treasury.
That becomes an increase in revenue for the US.
I wonder if his plan is to use this to pay for Greenland, his Gaza wonderland, or the Panama Canal.
Hey, speaking of Greenland, did you see where the Danish shipping company, Maersk Shipping, bought the Panama Canal Railway?
Cool, huh?
 
Hey, speaking of Greenland, did you see where the Danish shipping company, Maersk Shipping, bought the Panama Canal Railway?
Cool, huh?
Noo…….that is awesome!
Take that, orange mother****er. 😂
 
I've got no education so I can't figure this out. What economic agenda is served by tanking the stock markets, reducing interest rates and raising the debt ceiling? Stock market crashes have in the past incited recessions, reducing interest rates is one way of trying to correct a recession, but why increase government debt? Reducing interest rates and increasing government debt are measures that will increase money in circulation but why take so much value out of the stock markets?
Or is chaos the point?

You've unfortunately jumbled up several subjects, and I have studied economics to the point that I look at it as not unlike doing time in prison (my lame joke of the day.) But none of what I am saying below should be construed as support for Trump, just trying to explain.

Trump's "economic agenda," what he believes, is that international trade has been manipulated to the point that the US economy is harmed. In his opinion going with tariffs, and reciprocal tariffs, is about forcing trading nations to realign. You could look at it as domestic industry protectionism and growth, and there is plenty of commentary from Trump on the nature of how many manufacturing jobs we should have. But I would argue there is not enough business enticement to dramatically increase US manufacturing growth, a little perhaps but not something meaningful to our overall economic model.

Now the stock market is as zero sum as Trump's transactional nature, anytime someone wins someone has to lose. It does not make much sense for any President to intentionally tank the markets, but it may have been a necessary evil to start the path of Trump's goals for the US economy.

The debt ceiling has become, long ago, a joke of a mechanism to control the amount of debt the US can take on. There is no evidence, no economic evidence, that the debt ceiling has slowed or even influenced fiscal decision making as it relates to economic and debt addition outcome. It is a political toy, only deployed when there is a political reason to do so. Not economic. Raising the debt ceiling this past time in concert with yet another continuing resolution was not about true economic or fiscal policy, but was about buying time while his other actions started to play out. As for the amount of actual debt the US adds this fiscal year and next, that is yet to be seen, but the evidence points to another uptick in deficits and debt for at least the next 2 years (likely 5 or more.) Income from tariff taxation is never going to make up the difference when it comes to an actual economic fault Trump is setting up.

Any recession we are now likely to see is purely based on an economic reality that altering international trade so violently while removing so much from the federal workforce will alter all 4 of the math points in how GDP is calculated. Consumer Spending (already going down,) Business Investment (which has to pause over tariff prices,) Government Spending (which is somewhat maintained but we are seeing layoffs so that may trail a bit as an indicator,) and Net Exports (which will experience a large shift import and export but not become a positive number anytime soon.) We should see several quarters of GDP flatline or decline while the economy determines its new natural floor.

Interest rates is one of several monetary policy controls handled by the Fed. Because Trump is intentionally harming supply, in several ways, there will be a demand pulling supply inflation spike we will see realized in the near future. And because of, the Fed cannot lower interest rates and encourage more debt based spending on less supply. That will make inflation experienced even worse.
 
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